Verse 24:31 - revealing beauty

[brook]

When a woman
deliberately reveals her zeenah to her male attendant
he may most likely assume that she is willing to sleep with him
(if her زينته are parts of her body such as her bosom).

So the question to the believing women goes:

It is said that your zeenah are parts of your body such as your bosom and belly
and that you are permitted to reveal them to your male attendants who are not in need (غير أولي الإربة).
Would YOU reveal your body to your male attendants who are not in need?

[smckee]

When a woman
deliberately reveals her zeenah to her male attendant
he may most likely assume that she is willing to sleep with him
(if her زينته are parts of her body such as her bosom).

Then why does the verse talk about male attendants that have no vigour or sexual desire (i.e., homosexuals)?

[brook]

the male attendants that have no need الإربة
That is what the verse talks about.

It does NOT talk about
male attendants that have no vigour or sexual desire
Why do you need to portray them as attendants that have
no sexual desire?

Please remember the question I put to the believing women:

It is said that your zeenah are parts of your body such as your bosom and belly
and that you are permitted to reveal them to your male attendants that have no need.
Would YOU reveal your body to your male attendants that have no (sexual) need?

And remember their answer:

Would you...?
No.
Why not?
Because what really counts is MY need.

[brook]

24:31 talks about the zeenah (jewelry) the believing women are wearing.

It is no sin for them to wear zeenah (7:31, 32)
provided that they do not aim at متبرجات that is a showy display (24:60).

A believing woman is allowed to reveal the jewelry she is wearing to the people she trusts
such as a male attendat of hers who is in no need (الإربة), no use (20:18) of her jewelry.
For example she can wear a long gold necklace on her blouse and reveal it this way.
Her male attendant is not the kind of person who will mistakenly think she is aiming at a showy display,
otherwise she will not keep him as an attendant, she will not employ him.

[smckee]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.

[hawk99]

Peace guys. I was reading verse 24:31 and I was interested in what people here think about this part of said verse:

"And tell the believing women to restrain their looks, and to guard their privates, and not display their beauty except what is apparent thereof, and to draw their coverings over their breasts, and not expose their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, what their right hands possess, their male attendants who have no sexual desires, or children who are not yet aware of the nakedness of women. And they should not strike their feet to draw attention to their hidden beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, so that you may succeed."

What does the bolded portion mean? "Beauty" can't mean necklaces and ornaments as these are often worn in public and yet no one relates them to nakedness. And why would a woman want to be sexually dressed in front of the people listed in the verse? My opinion is that a woman is allowed to be naked in front of her father, mother, daughter, son, brother, etc. This position makes much more sense when you realise that bathing suits and private showers were hard to come by in the past. In fact, modern day bathing suits (including so-called "modest swimwear") would have been considered scandalous back then as well. This verse may also allow women to swim in a private place like a pond or a lake sans clothing without any strange unrelated men harassing them (as often occurs on the beach). What do you guys think? Give your explanations below.

Peace smckee,  Modesty is a character trait.

     A woman has two forms of beauty her physical and her inner.  she does not reveal her physical beauty to those who are not her family except what is apparent.
(her face her hands and her hair).  A woman's inner beauty should not be exposed to those outside of her family (by making eye contact, smiling, being funny,
imposing conversation, witty, flirtatious etc.,) and "switching" when she walks.  She can let down her guard with men and children who have no desire for women.

God bless you.

                                                                   

[brook]

The word زينتهن in 24:31 is the believing women's jewelry.

It is no sin to wear jewelry (7:31, 32)
provided that what is aimed at is not متبرجات,
a showy display (24:60).

The believing women may reveal their jewelry
to the people they trust
such as their male servants who have no إربة
no need.

Surah Ta Ha
17: Now, what is this in thy right hand, O Moses?

18: It is my staff.
I lean on it,
and with it I beat down leaves for my sheep
and I meet my other need, مآرب أخرى.   

By his need
did Moses mean
his sexual need?

An Nur 31:

The believing women should not reveal their zeenah
except to their own male servants who have no need.

If you were a believing woman with sexual need
and if you had a male servant who had no sexual need
would you reveal your breasts to him?

Please ask the believing women you know
if they would.

[brook]

One last thing:

The فروجهن  in 24:31 and the  فروجهم  in 24:30 are
the genital organs, that is parts of the body
whereas the زينتهن in 24:31 are not parts of the body
They are the jewelry the believing women are wearing.

Another difference is that
you can reveal your genital organs only to your spouse (23:6)
whereas it is no sin for a believing woman to reveal her jewelry
to the people she trusts like her male servant without need.