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How do you define the following of Muhammad's footsteps?

Started by Shah Khan, October 20, 2022, 11:59:32 PM

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good logic

GOD has given us-who follow GOD alone and His word Alone- and them- those who follow footsteps of others- the answer here;

He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: "You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will greatly resent what you invite them to do. God redeems to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself only those who totally submit.
شَرَعَ لَكُم مِنَ الدّينِ ما وَصّىٰ بِهِ نوحًا وَالَّذى أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ وَما وَصَّينا بِهِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَموسىٰ وَعيسىٰ أَن أَقيمُوا الدّينَ وَلا تَتَفَرَّقوا فيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى المُشرِكينَ ما تَدعوهُم إِلَيهِ اللَّهُ يَجتَبى إِلَيهِ مَن يَشاءُ وَيَهدى إِلَيهِ مَن يُنيبُ

Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.
وَما تَفَرَّقوا إِلّا مِن بَعدِ ما جاءَهُمُ العِلمُ بَغيًا بَينَهُم وَلَولا كَلِمَةٌ سَبَقَت مِن رَبِّكَ إِلىٰ أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى لَقُضِىَ بَينَهُم وَإِنَّ الَّذينَ أورِثُوا الكِتٰبَ مِن بَعدِهِم لَفى شَكٍّ مِنهُ مُريبٍ

Message to ALL THOSE WHO WANT MEN S WORDS FOR THEIR RELIGION:

This is what you shall preach, and steadfastly maintain what you are commanded to do, and do not follow their wishes. And proclaim: "I believe in all the scriptures sent down by God. I was commanded to judge among you equitably. God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds and you have your deeds. There is no argument between us and you. God will gather us all together; to Him is the ultimate destiny."
فَلِذٰلِكَ فَادعُ وَاستَقِم كَما أُمِرتَ وَلا تَتَّبِع أَهواءَهُم وَقُل ءامَنتُ بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ مِن كِتٰبٍ وَأُمِرتُ لِأَعدِلَ بَينَكُمُ اللَّهُ رَبُّنا وَرَبُّكُم لَنا أَعمٰلُنا وَلَكُم أَعمٰلُكُم لا حُجَّةَ بَينَنا وَبَينَكُمُ اللَّهُ يَجمَعُ بَينَنا وَإِلَيهِ المَصيرُ

Those who argue about God, after receiving His message, their argument is nullified at their Lord. They have incurred condemnation, and have deserved a severe retribution.
وَالَّذينَ يُحاجّونَ فِى اللَّهِ مِن بَعدِ مَا استُجيبَ لَهُ حُجَّتُهُم داحِضَةٌ عِندَ رَبِّهِم وَعَلَيهِم غَضَبٌ وَلَهُم عَذابٌ شَديدٌ

God is the One who sent down the scripture, to deliver the truth and the law. For all that you know, the Hour (Day of Judgment) may be very close.
اللَّهُ الَّذى أَنزَلَ الكِتٰبَ بِالحَقِّ وَالميزانَ وَما يُدريكَ لَعَلَّ السّاعَةَ قَريبٌ

Definition of scripture = GOD s words/message from GOD Alone not others.
Or do they have others who deliver to us the truth and make for us the law?
All arguments to this nonsense is nullified at GOD.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

amin

Mohammed is the praised one, the praised one's actions needs to be validated by people and proved right for the society, for example covering our heads, its still good for those who live in deserts, the way we dress, the way we clean ourselves depends on the resources we get, the way we greet others, the way we lead our lives, but before everything we should make sure we are muslims and as muslims we submit everything to Him, Being muslim which is completely different than being an Arab. I cannot say, 'I copy and do everything on what  the praised one did', so i automatically become a muslim, to be a muslim or lead a Islamic way is completely different and thats what we learn in Quran.

afootandlighthearted

I think sunnah is just the abstract concept indicating the prophets authority.

Many people see this authority written into the message of the Quran.

The hadith is an effort to transmit that concept via oral and written traditions following various methodologies.

I feel like sunnah is above and beyond hadith. I see it in a similar way to sharia and fiqh. Fiqh is the human understand of God's Sharia.

good logic

The prophet will not disobey GOD and take the authority for himself or share it with GOD.
GOD is ever living and the sole authority for His deen.
The prophet had  a message to deliver and  he did that  very well.
Why would GOD bother to send us His message /words?  So that the prophet can take over the authority and replace GOD s words by his own? 

Would that not make him a partner with GOD?
It just does not make sense to put Sunnah and hadiths-men s words- as equal or above GOD s words!!!  Is this not shirk?

GOD bless.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

amin

Simply copying some actions or applying some verses for all cases could be misleading, theres a Quranic verse(3/7) related to this, wherein some messages are basic but some not basic and unspecified, applied only for specific cases, it means those are not the same answer to every similar case, following Hadiths with blind belief is also similar, only the guided or people of understanding, can understand where and how those can be applied.

jkhan

Quote from: jkhan on January 25, 2023, 09:01:31 PM
Pls pay attention and read.. No compelling but beg you.

Peace everyone...
Yes we know this is a well known topic.. I mean obey God and obey Messenger.. Literally main stream end up saying Obey Allah means Quran and obey Messenger means Sunnah that is to say Sunnah written in authentic Hadith.. So they are happy with it...
What's wrong with these people while having knowledge.. Don't they use their intellect..
I humbly ask if there is any mainstream person who reads this thread.. Reflect well and answer.. I know satan has diverted but you are still on your brain.. Reflect..
Yes everyone like in the above two videos Mufti Menk and the other gentleman they reiterate obey Allah and obey messenger.. Parroting verses after verses and substantiate them to follow Hadith.. Otherwise how to pray haj Zakath Blaaa blaa they say.. So laymen people surrender.. On top of that they reiterate laymen should ask the scholars of Islam.. So poor followers end up accepting them..
But what if I say obey Messenger and obey God instead of Obey God and obey messenger.. Well.. Does it make any difference to you..  It has difference. 
God is great.. I don't need to say but God himself said it... But in best way. 

Verse 4:80
"He who obeys the Messenger indeed has obeyed Allah ;...."

Well.. Do you see the difference my mainstream friends.. You don't see.. Right.. But.. We do see.

Now let me replace the verse with actual scenario..

#He who obeys Hadith/sunna indeed obeyed Allah#

Hmm obey hadith then you automatically obeyed Quran.. Wow..

Your great mufti Menk Zakir Naik and all those scholars do say ..Obey Allah = Quran.. Obey Messenger = Sunnah of Prophet.. If in doubt see their videos. Before it is deleted seeing this.. Lol. 

Note the grammar in verse 4:80 carefully.. He who obeys (present tense) the Messenger, indeed Obeyed (past /perfect tense) Allah..

You have to keep obeying the message of God through our life and indeed you OBEYED God.. No doubt..

Now this verse we read now...  Leave us aside.. But Quran came to people of Muhamed and those surrounded while it was revealed..
Does that mean they were asked to follow the sunnah of physical mohamed and then they indeed obeyed God.? Come on don't be so insane while you have brain..

You know conventional people, you can fool among yourself but you can't hide the truth with your foolishness...

The truth is verse 4:80 literally says.. He who obeys quran indeed obeyed Allah... Why? Coz Quran is word of God THROUGH the mouth of His messenger..

but unfortunately who will reflect other than God's true believers..

Thank you..
Salam..

Salam again...  Those who believe only will know the depth of what Hadith followers do say.. Easy to manipulate but they themselves get stuck within Quran...

Let me tell you a story..  I have a very good friend...  I am 100% God is guiding him and he is a believer... But recent times he had lot of concerns...  He says he is thorough that God does exist and there is no second thought about it...  So who am I to call him Disveliever.. No way..  I know he is believer..  Tone of a person can be perceived beyond anything... But his concern is why do I need believe in books in which I feel like human infusion is incorporated...  That's his concern.. But thorough logical and amicable debate and conversation with the mercy of God he realized.. So he believes in entirety of Quran now...  I am sure he has enough belief to maintain it...

Now let me turn to OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER  debate.. This is connected to my friend also though he didn't realize it... But I am talking to my so called mainstream muslim sunni people. 
Yes you follow hadith because your scholars do say Obey Allah = Quran .... And... Obey Messenger = Hadith (sunnah)..  So you follow in their footsteps...
As my friend said he believes in Allah for sure... He is convinced that there is creator even without any book by looking at all creatures/nature.. So literally He obeys Allah.. Isn't he?  In fact he does. But Sunni Muslims say Obey Allah means following Quran...  So here both my friend and Sunni are contradictory.. Or rather not in same line of thought.. Coz for friend without Quran he obey God but for sunni Obey Allah is obey Quran...

Is my friend right Sunni Muslims right...?  In fact my friend is right.. You don't need any book to believe in God... Believers are born with God consciousness... God somehow make him or her to believe in God... But God never leave His believers in dilemma... Here comes the obey Messenger segment..
Believers already obey ie believe in God but they need more guidance and enhancement so with mercy of God He has revealed His book... So.. Believers are propelled towards His book so are eager to study and explore the book... They go through various stages... But they overcome ..
In the end what happens... They obey the Quran (Messenger) and they literally OBEYED  God.. From obeying to OBEYED...
But unfortunately the Sunni Muslim they say Obey Allah =Quran and they say obey Messenger means Sunna /Hadith..

1.. So God says Obey Allah... Yes... My friend obeys Allah... And God says obey the Messenger.. Yes my friend is doing his level best to study Quran and keep obeying...

2.. So God says verse 4:80.. "The one who Obeys the Messenger..Yes.. My friend is working hard with Quran to get clarification and practice and in fact puting verses into practice. ... And God continues to say.. "Indeed OBEYED Allah"... Yes... My friend still obeying not OBEYED.. that applies if he remain constantly until his death.. Yes then INDEED He OBEYED ALLAH...

NOTE....  On top of that,  Even before quran was revealed there were Muslims.. Yes among those who were given scripture before QURAN there were Muslims who believe in God and obeying His messagers...  So when Quran was revealing /revealed,  does Obey Allah phrase means obey Quran and leave Torah and Injeel?  No way.. Those Muslims already obey Allah and there is nothing to add for them.. Then the second part.. Obey the Messenger...  Now do they not obey their book either Torah or injeel.. Yes they do. . But what is new here for the.?  Yes... Addition is obey Quran as well... 
If we blindly think like mainstream Muslims..  The phrase "Obey Allah and obey messenger means obey Quran and obey hadith then those who were given the book before and still were Muslims will be stuck in no man's land..
I don't talk about modern day.... 

thank you... And thank you my friend.. Having conversations with you in fact enhanced my knowledge of the book..
Let us die with guidance

jkhan

@Sunni Muslims...

Reflect... Allah is not Quran.. Obey Allah not equal to Quran... Not even equal Torah or Injeel or any of His books when they were revealed.. What a shameful statement that they say Obey Allah = Quran..
Quran is word of God and it is not Allah... Quran is His message and Not Allah.. The purpose of Quran /mesaage of God is to guide us and increase believers faith towards Allah/God..
Every messenger said "I am a messenger of Allah/God" ... So Allah is one and Messenger is another who mediate with the message of God to people.   
I don't know how far people especially those who accept Quran alone,  agree with me that Obey Allah and obey the Messenger are two things buy for one purpose.. Obey /believe in God but believed obey in His message as well.. That only take a believer forward.  .

@anyone..
Question is pls reflect well and respond... Why you think God has not mentioned (in case not mentioned) in Quran instead of "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger" as Obey Allah and obey the MESSAGE"?  why?  Do you think if God mentioned this it would have been far clear than Messenger? Or "Obey Allah and obey Quran" would that solve many misunderstanding... but what What God mentioned is final and that makes sense..  Well. Let me have you thoughts if you wish? After 4th our thoughts.. Let me reply mine as well in sha Allah with logic. 
Let us die with guidance

jkhan

Quote from: jkhan on February 01, 2023, 12:33:30 AM
@Sunni Muslims...

Reflect... Allah is not Quran.. Obey Allah not equal to Quran... Not even equal Torah or Injeel or any of His books when they were revealed.. What a shameful statement that they say Obey Allah = Quran..
Quran is word of God and it is not Allah... Quran is His message and Not Allah.. The purpose of Quran /mesaage of God is to guide us and increase believers faith towards Allah/God..
Every messenger said "I am a messenger of Allah/God" ... So Allah is one and Messenger is another who mediate with the message of God to people.   
I don't know how far people especially those who accept Quran alone,  agree with me that Obey Allah and obey the Messenger are two things buy for one purpose.. Obey /believe in God but believed obey in His message as well.. That only take a believer forward.  .

@anyone..
Question is pls reflect well and respond... Why you think God has not mentioned (in case not mentioned) in Quran instead of "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger" as Obey Allah and obey the MESSAGE"?  why?  Do you think if God mentioned this it would have been far clear than Messenger? Or "Obey Allah and obey Quran" would that solve many misunderstanding... but what What God mentioned is final and that makes sense..  Well. Let me have you thoughts if you wish? After 4th our thoughts.. Let me reply mine as well in sha Allah with logic.

I am waiting at least from one person make his or her understanding..
Let us die with guidance

good logic

Peace jkhan.
Say you join the army and you are told to obey the major. How do you do that?
Then you are not in contact with the major,you are only in your small unit and your leader in that unit, Therefore you obey your leader who is obeying the major - the big boss-
So the "obey- is for the whole system that comes from the top through the major. Top boss of the/system..

So what is it that you are obeying?
Simply "obey" the instructions and commands of the army system . It comes from the words and philosophy of the top boss/es.

Similarly obey GOD and obey. the messenger means obey only GOD s instructions and commands - the system of GOD-. relayed to you through the message of the messenger.
Believe in GOD has to include obey GOD as well  Otherwise the belief is partial and fake.
The system has one source only and includes the words of GOD alone to be obeyed, since he is the Top boss and gives the rules and the law.

Obey GOD and obey the messenger means obey GOD and His instructions and commands. i.e His message in His own words.
GOS bless you .
Peace
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: good logic on February 02, 2023, 02:50:11 AM
Peace jkhan.
Say you join the army and you are told to obey the major. How do you do that?
Then you are not in contact with the major,you are only in your small unit and your leader in that unit, Therefore you obey your leader who is obeying the major - the big boss-
So the "obey- is for the whole system that comes from the top through the major. Top boss of the/system..

So what is it that you are obeying?
Simply "obey" the instructions and commands of the army system . It comes from the words and philosophy of the top boss/es.

Similarly obey GOD and obey. the messenger means obey only GOD s instructions and commands - the system of GOD-. relayed to you through the message of the messenger.
Believe in GOD has to include obey GOD as well  Otherwise the belief is partial and fake.
The system has one source only and includes the words of GOD alone to be obeyed, since he is the Top boss and gives the rules and the law.

Obey GOD and obey the messenger means obey GOD and His instructions and commands. i.e His message in His own words.
GOS bless you .
Peace

Peace GL

Thank you... I know you obey Allah and and following Quran and trying level best to follow...  What you have written is absolutely right...
But my question is Why we don't see in Quran instead of Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, as obey Allah and obey the message or obey Allah and obey Quran...  Would that make sense if written so?  That's my question... Pls be kind enough and give your thought...

Thank you...
Let us die with guidance