Salat=Still confused

[applepie]

Folks thank you for the replies, Peace unto you all.  It still seems nobody on these posts can agree what salat is 5x, 3x, or a state of continual worship. May ALLAH guide us all.  My salat is basic,and in english. But, after a while it seems like a ritual. Same ol', same ol'. Ruku-how many? Sujud-how many? After reading these posts I become more and more confused. Everybody differs yet uses ayat to justify truth. We cannot even get Quran alone study groups together in major urban areas(Cleveland) Maybe this is what ALLAH wants for me. This to me is still a religion of complexity. An exellent book this Quran is. But, if no translation is perfect. How are we supposed to know. And again I have no time to study original arabic. Be a good person, Believe in a creator(ALLAH) Do good deeds. Just try to do your best. Love your family. Leave religion behind. Theology has contributed nothing to society.  Peace

[OPF]

Peace,

We are not confused.

You are.

We will keep seeking the truth.

You can keep enjoying your cloudy mirror but there comes a time when falsehood ceases to be pleasurable, comfortable or entertaining, when every "so and so said so and so" ceases to be the comfortable warm blanky shielding you from the fire of ALLAH's wrath.

Your confusion comes from finding a piece of the truth and trying to fit it back into the confused jigsaw puzzle you had to begin with. The truth only fits with the truth, falsehood fits only with falsehood created to cover up the defect and in the end it does not fit at all. The polyfilla masjid-al-haram will never compare to the true masjid al-haram.

"And again I have no time to study original arabic."

The pushers of falsehood like to drag the conversation into the ins and outs of Arabic grammar where they can then push their falsehood best using their knowledge of subtleties. ALLAH says that those who knowingly conceal the truth will also be punished severely.

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

May god guide as all indeed!

[applepie]

OPF calla me confused. How observant. I am not enjoying any cloudy mirror. "Comfortable warm blanky shielding me from the fire of ALLAH'S wrath" That and jigsaw puzzles. Ok analogy genius I picture ALLAH as most forgiving full of love and you love to talk wrath and punishment. I do not knowingly conceal the truth because I am searching for the truth. I do not think learning arabic is essential. Why would a merciful GOD want people to study another language to get a true meaning of a sacred text. Looks like you are trying to label me as a pusher of falsehood. Politely judging me and calling me a kafir like a hadither. Remember sparky, I also can take ayats out of context and make you look bad. PEACE

[Eikonoklastes]

Peace applepie,

It's OK to be confused on some areas, but that doesn't mean the truth isn't out there. If I may say so respectfully, it seems that either you are stuck on the mindset of needing an "authoritative" clergy to decide on what every Muslim should do, or that you are impatient.

The Quran puts the responsibilities and decisions in YOUR hand. It tells you to quit following conjecture, and to seek knowledge for yourself. This doesn't mean you can't read other people's opinions and see how they stand in light of the Quran. What you truly believe and understand at the current time, is your truth. With an open mind, one can read other opinions and articles and see what makes most sense.

However many times salat you believe are in a day and how to perform them RIGHT NOW, to the best of your knowledge with the Quran, is good. But from there, you must diligently seek truth, and see what is better than what you have now and latch onto it. That is what each of us are doing, and the reason why this forum exists is to help us gain this knowledge. Don't feel unworthy or give up hope that you don't know the entire and absolute truth. The blessing is in the struggle to find the truth.

I believe in this day and age, with the internet, it is ridiculous to just sit back and give up. We have so much information at the tips of our fingers that it's unbelievable. I personally don't know any Arabic, and a couple years ago was praying the traditional 5 daily salat as well. But now I feel so confident in my belief, and praise be to Allah even know a bit of Arabic to back up my claims. If I can do it, any one can.

This website is a great tool to learn from. If you want the truth, I suggest you take a deep breath, be patient, pray to Allah for guidance, and struggle as best as you can to find the truth. I promise it will be worth it.

May peace be with you.

[Producer]

You guys Quraniyoon, Quranites, are very confusing, you guys don't focus on the real issues, ie the forbidding of Hadith Jesus.

As long the Sunnis cannot find a Verse of Quran literally forbids Hadith Jesus, Sunnis will look stupid amongs the Christians;



I need a Verse from alQuran forbidding Hadith Jesus, as Christians claimed by the verse below;

3:32
Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.

61:6
And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah"

43:63
And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.

2:285
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."


Quraniyoon, Quranites no need to answer this, you guys don't believe in Sahih Bukhari.

[TAJ]

OPF calla me confused. How observant. I am not enjoying any cloudy mirror. "Comfortable warm blanky shielding me from the fire of ALLAH'S wrath" That and jigsaw puzzles. Ok analogy genius I picture ALLAH as most forgiving full of love and you love to talk wrath and punishment. I do not knowingly conceal the truth because I am searching for the truth. I do not think learning arabic is essential. Why would a merciful GOD want people to study another language to get a true meaning of a sacred text. Looks like you are trying to label me as a pusher of falsehood. Politely judging me and calling me a kafir like a hadither. Remember sparky, I also can take ayats out of context and make you look bad. PEACE

It made me lol when someone called you confused! The "holier than thou" attitude never fails to draw a broad smile on my face..

You are not confused. How can you be? What you wrote makes perfect sense,, at least to me!
Of course there is no need to learn Arabic. Nor should you need to read a translation! Or even read the Quran to begin with. It is not obligatory. If you are genuinely interested in learning the Book of Quran then that is another story, but it wouldn't add to your faith if it is there. Allah is bigger and greater than mere words, and certainly far easier to reach, and much, much faster to get in touch with than the time it would take one to utter or even think of His words. Worshiping words is the one thing God does not want us to fall in, yet there are people who can't seem to stop panting over them..

Listen to your gut, friend. You are on the right track.

"Cloudy mirror"!!This is the funniest joke!
Brother! You've got the clearest/purist vision. 

[Jafar]

Folks thank you for the replies, Peace unto you all.  It still seems nobody on these posts can agree what salat is 5x, 3x, or a state of continual worship. May ALLAH guide us all.  My salat is basic,and in english. But, after a while it seems like a ritual.

Good for you..

Be a good person, Believe in a creator(ALLAH) Do good deeds. Just try to do your best. Love your family. Leave religion behind. Theology has contributed nothing to society.  Peace

That's what matter the most.....

From my perspective; a 'standardized form of praying' is ridiculous...
The similitude is like; "Let's standardize on how we should talk to our parents"....  which of course any of you would agree that it's ridiculous...

A 'standardized praying' implied we should 'communicate the same way' when we talk / communicate / make a bonding with our Creator.. While most certainly each and any one of us has different problems, concerns and needs..

A 'standardized form of praying/worship' is a legacy from paganistic culture where every priest invented rites to worship specific god/deity within specific temple. They keep telling people to 'perform the rites correctly' otherwise god/deity X will not be pleased. The rites are usually complex and involved some kind of repetitive chant / mantra which only the priest knew it very well.... They invented such complexity in order to 'keep the demand' of their priestly services...  and of course keep the 'donation' flowing...
A liberated rites will result in the end of their business as people no longer need their priestly services...

Salam / Peace

[Emil]

OPF calla me confused. How observant. I am not enjoying any cloudy mirror. "Comfortable warm blanky shielding me from the fire of ALLAH'S wrath" That and jigsaw puzzles. Ok analogy genius I picture ALLAH as most forgiving full of love and you love to talk wrath and punishment. I do not knowingly conceal the truth because I am searching for the truth. I do not think learning arabic is essential. Why would a merciful GOD want people to study another language to get a true meaning of a sacred text. Looks like you are trying to label me as a pusher of falsehood. Politely judging me and calling me a kafir like a hadither. Remember sparky, I also can take ayats out of context and make you look bad. PEACE

Dear Applepie

I don't think OPF directed his/her post towards you as a person. Please read it again objectively.

If you are looking for answers or a consensus amongst Quran Alone in a very specific subject such as number of salat you will not find anyone.

49:13 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

Allah knows we are all different and He knows we travel different paths towards him. We can all find the right path, but where does it say we have to travel the same path? Where does it say we have to follow exactly the same ritual? He has made us into nations and tribes so we may know one another. Take a moment to think about what that really means.

[OPF]

We all breath the same air...

God is forgiving and full of love. I have faults personally. I'm sorry if I came off stand-offish, we are all one.

[GODsubmitter]

Folks thank you for the replies, Peace unto you all.  It still seems nobody on these posts can agree what salat is 5x, 3x, or a state of continual worship. May ALLAH guide us all.  My salat is basic,and in English. But, after a while it seems like a ritual. Same ol', same ol'. Ruku-how many? Sujud-how many? After reading these posts I become more and more confused. Everybody differs yet uses ayat to justify truth. We cannot even get Quran alone study groups together in major urban areas(Cleveland) Maybe this is what ALLAH wants for me. This to me is still a religion of complexity. An exellent book this Quran is. But, if no translation is perfect. How are we supposed to know. And again I have no time to study original arabic. Be a good person, Believe in a creator(ALLAH) Do good deeds. Just try to do your best. Love your family. Leave religion behind. Theology has contributed nothing to society.  Peace

Peace to all.
Thank you "applepie" for writing this, I am in a very similar situation like you. I performed the ritual or contact prayer 5 times dayly during 6 months after reading and being instructed by Rashad Khalifa's translation and appendices, and then, last week, I read the book "Mental Bondage" http://mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/ , which opened my mind and I felt quite stupid, and as a donkey, who used to accept and perform paganistic rituals which were not even in my tradition, as I was not even born as a Muslim (but from Jewish and Christian tradition)! So I stoped doing ruku et al, and all that nonsense. But, alas, I somehow felt guilt, and a certain loss as well. And now, I am also quite confused as you are. After reading a few posts here, it also seems to me that Quran is not supposed to be complicated and the some clarification came from the words of "Jafar" :

From my perspective; a 'standardized form of praying' is ridiculous...

A 'standardized praying' implied we should 'communicate the same way' when we talk / communicate / make a bonding with our Creator.. While most certainly each and any one of us has different problems, concerns and needs..

A 'standardized form of praying/worship' is a legacy from paganistic culture where every priest invented rites to worship specific god/deity within specific temple. They keep telling people to 'perform the rites correctly' otherwise god/deity X will not be pleased. The rites are usually complex and involved some kind of repetitive chant / mantra which only the priest knew it very well.... They invented such complexity in order to 'keep the demand' of their priestly services...  and of course keep the 'donation' flowing...
A liberated rites will result in the end of their business as people no longer need their priestly services...
Salam / Peace

and also "TAJ"

It made me lol when someone called you confused! The "holier than thou" attitude never fails to draw a broad smile on my face..

You are not confused. How can you be? What you wrote makes perfect sense,, at least to me!
Of course there is no need to learn Arabic. Nor should you need to read a translation! Or even read the Quran to begin with. It is not obligatory. If you are genuinely interested in learning the Book of Quran then that is another story, but it wouldn't add to your faith if it is there. Allah is bigger and greater than mere words, and certainly far easier to reach, and much, much faster to get in touch with than the time it would take one to utter or even think of His words. Worshiping words is the one thing God does not want us to fall in, yet there are people who can't seem to stop panting over them..

Listen to your gut, friend. You are on the right track.

BUT !!! ,
I cannot understand what and who gives the right to someone (like "Taj" and "Emil") to say and write "Allah is bigger and greater than mere words" or, "Allah knows we are all different and He knows we travel different paths towards him" as "Emil" writes? How do they know that Allah knows that and that He thinks that? Who are they to soothe or calm someone with what they think what Allah means or wants? Just how do they know for Allah?, or say something in His name? How can anyone say what Allah wants or thinks???

That is why I suppose Allah sent The Reading (Quran) in the first place, especially for us NOT to follow our guts as "Taj" wrote: "Listen to your gut, friend"?  ...... That's precisely what the mankind was doing all the time!, and brought us where we are now. They all followed their guts!
Unfortunately, most people are stupid, and their guts are not only insane and sick, but mainly evil and unwired to Allah! (as I understand, Allah is not a deity but a "Reality Principle" and the "Truth of the Objectivity of Now").
So The Reading (Quran) was sent down for us to have some guiding to become civilized and sane, as I understand it.

Now, maybe it was sent for the Arabs only? Well, HOW on earth are we others supposed to understand it when even people who have PhD in Arabic seem not to be able to understand some words and agree on commandments?
My opinion (and wish) is that ALLAH wanted all to be quite simple! I pray Allah guide us instead of our petty little guts or egos!

Anyway, I am puzzled how is it that Allah allowed (!) so many millions of Muslims to be misguided for so many centuries, let alone right now? Is it possible that Allah lets people dispute over His commandments and words all the time???
If Rashad Khalifa wouldn't be so subconsciously influenced by the same haddits he rejected, (the influence being obvious in his appendices and explanations), I would think that he really was the one who unified and simplified Hebrew, Christian and Muslim Covenant. But, alas, probably he also was too theologian and ritualistic, while I think Allah's Reading is not about any religion nor theology.
(or numerology )

I think the main message of The Reading (Quran) is: NOT to associate anything or anybody to Allah!
That's why I am grateful to RK for stressing that! The ONLY sin Allah will NOT forgive is SHIRK! All the rest is of lesser importance.
Now, I think shirk is whatever clouds our perception of Reality and Harmonous Rational Objectivity.