The Qur'an is corrupted in translation and text is alter how can it be trusted?

[Abdun Nur]

I would add.

Your argument may lead to the question: "What is the point of a prediction that cannot be interpreted correctly before the event?" However, the argument is not that the prediction could not have been interpreted correctly prior to the event, but simply that it was not in the case in question, thus the question is working from a false premise. Of course, any "prediction" that is so vague as to not be correctly interpreted before the event it allegedly "predicted" is functionally equivalent to no prediction at all.

[Man of Faith]

I agree the prophecy must not be ambiguous but quite clearly declared. In the interpretation I have it is.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

[Abdun Nur]

Does it have a location, date, time, clear description of participants and events, if so what is the purpose of the prophecy, is it to prevent the event? to record the event? if the prophecy is not absolutely clear in both detail and purpose what is the point?

[Man of Faith]

It is not ambiguous but not so elaborate although yet clear enough to understand that the author knew what was going to happen when it was being written, saying that Quran has been made according to certain people themselves and not what it is supposed to say. The authenticity in that is Quran has obviously been forced a nonsensical interpretation on top of an innocent discourse and then kept that way until someone could decipher that segment of text and see the writing says that was exactly what was going to happen. That is a safe prophecy, yet the author knew exactly what was going to happen and the expression is clear as glass.

Another thing, which is not a prophecy, but Quran says Solomon was dealing with the kings of Babylon and tried to make them behave righteously (because they did not).
That is consistent because years after Solomon's rule the whole Jewish population was taken captive by Babylon and later rescued by a Persian emperor (shah'an'shah or king of kings), when the Jewish society had suffered years of bad kingship, as evidently only David and Solomon plus a few subsequent kings had behaved properly in order to keep the kingdom healthy.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

[Abdun Nur]

The jewish history is poppy cock from start to finish.

[good logic]

Peace Bkanwar2.

I do not believe you are asking me this,quote:
Good logic, please present your evidence that Quran is from God?  Don't give me the circular logic of Hadith proving your point

I have conversed with you in the past,I have repeated numerous times in many of my posts that I do not follow hadith . I also repeated many times about the mathematical composition of Qoran ,the contents of Qoran,the style of Qoran.

You do not read my posts? But what about when we are talking to each other,do you just skim it /ignore altogether ?
I am sorry I am failing to understand why you are asking me about the circular logic of hadiths or anything to do with hadiths!!!!!

I give up. I may be naive,but it seems some members do not read posts!!!Why do they take part then? Does this not seem to be unfair? How can you do justice to views if you do not read them?

That explains perhaps why questions are asked numerous times?!!!

That also explains why people keep writing the same stuff. Only what they made their mind about. Nothing else will even interest them. Nothing else is worth a look at. And they call others dogmatic?!!!!

Look brother. I am sorry if I went on a bit here,but I find people who do not read posts and comment on them rude.

Never mind how other translations cannot be trusted,the real question is:Can themselves be trusted?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Anoushirvan]

Peace, it is now common knowledge the translated text is corrupted and the Arabic text has not remained unaltered from the original, how then can it be trusted as a source of guidance?

Can you clarify what you mean by "the translated text is corrupted", please ? A translation, e.g. in English, is not the original text, and like for any other text, different translators can make different translation.

The Arabic text of Qur'an has certainly be altered from the original text written by Muhammad. This is why we find testimonies of Qur'an of Ibn Mas'ud, Qur'an of Ubay, Qur'an of Ali, Qur'an of Hafsa, etc.
We even find in the palimpsets of Sana'a variations of Qur'an that have never been attested by Arabic authors.

But the most blatant alteration is the alteration of the meaning of the words itself, under the influence of the Sira and the Sunna.

I would say that the right approach to uncover the original message is to appeal to different scientific disciplines: history and philology.
Philology is the science to study the language and its evolutions from written documents.
Here we are to study Arabic from quranic corpus and possibly other written sources at the same time.
That way we can discover how some words have changed meaning from the 7th century to now, and what meaning they can probably have in Qur'an.
We can also discover if some later interpolations have been done, because in that case, the words are not used the same way as the rest of the text.

We can also confront the meaning uncovered by philology to history. For example, the meaning of Qur'an resulting of a philological analysis is not fully aligned with the history of Muhammad as told in the Sira an-Nabawi.
The philological analysis clearly points at a vocabulary describing a period and place of great troubles at the time Qur'an is written, whereas in the Sira an-Nabawi, revelation starts in a peaceful time in Hedjaz.
Also the place doesn't match.

On the other hand, philological analysis is aligned with the history in Northern Arabia, and places writing of original Qur'an among warfare and among theological disputations involving various Christians sects and Jewish sects.
It is in this precise context that the claim of Qur'an that it is a book of guidance starts to make sense.

[Man of Faith]

The jewish history is poppy cock from start to finish.

Well, the modern definition Jew is that, but the old times it is talking about something else.

There are many independent historians who have recorded things concerning the history of the Cana'ans (another name for people who lived by the east side of the Mediterranean sea). I have told you that you have a blind hatred towards anything which has to do with the word Jew just because of your own emotional encounter and cultural upbringing, that you are very subjective in your opinion of any sources literally denying everything just because of a preconception.

Stop jumping unto the train of modern Arab versus Israeli nonsense.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

[Abdun Nur]

I have no hatred Man of faith, the Ashkenazi have been very busy in Palestine digging it up, they found zero evidence to support their fictional histories, did they build the pyramids, no, where they slaves for the Egyptians, no, did Moses ever exist no, their books are fictional nonsense, as is the Christian book added on.

The Bible was created by Constantine, as a tool of imperial control over the masses, he destroyed the competition and installed the Vaticans new subjugating religion.

All religions are invented to control peoples thinking, they all call the masses sheep and the controllers shepherds, do the shepherds protect the sheep, only to make the fleecing of them their monopoly, and at the end of the day it is the shepherd who murders the sheep and consumes them not the wolves the shepherd is thought to protect against.

[Makaveli]

I have no hatred Man of faith, the Ashkenazi have been very busy in Palestine digging it up, they found zero evidence to support their fictional histories, did they build the pyramids, no, where they slaves for the Egyptians, no, did Moses ever exist no, their books are fictional nonsense, as is the Christian book added on.

You can't say something did not exist by merely saying there is no evidence. If you were consistent in your argument you would not say that whole history of Danes is a fabrication by Vatican. If that is true you cannot rely on anything in history. There are people who argue there were no Olympic games during antiquity and these were fabricated by Pierre de Coubertin who created modern Olympic games. All these events exist as symbol, and it is up to you to find the truth or abandon it, but nonetheless the symbols will never cease to exist.

The Bible was not created by Constantine, but the text were compiled in a single book with the emphasis on Paul. Biblical texts existed long until AD 325.