The Qur'an is corrupted in translation and text is alter how can it be trusted?

[good logic]

Man Of Faith,please do it. Prove your side .
Otherwise,few more years will pass and you will still be only talking one liners and claiming.
It has already been few years since you started your project on deciphering Qoran. Are you stuck?

huruf,we keep going in circles with these claims about Qoran.

Guess what ,GOD is spot on,they cannot and will not be able to find any corruption in the original Arabic text.

All people are doing is finding faults in human interpretation of the text.
GOD bless.
Peace.

[Man of Faith]

Man Of Faith,please do it. Prove your side .
Otherwise,few more years will pass and you will still be only talking one liners and claiming.
It has already been few years since you started your project on deciphering Qoran. Are you stuck?

huruf,we keep going in circles with these claims about Qoran.

Guess what ,GOD is spot on,they cannot and will not be able to find any corruption in the original Arabic text.

All people are doing is finding faults in human interpretation of the text.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Your own forum has content which proves Quran has been corrupted. I am too lazy or rather find it too irrelevant to do it, to search it for you, but you may use the search function. This does not make me wrong in any way, just that I let you yourself seek the answer you ask for it is easy to find.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

[scarface2890]

The 20 Versions of the Qur'an today. (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

[Man of Faith]

If you had provided a link you had almost done the job for me. Nevertheless, there are pretty heavy differences in various Quran versions.

Not that I care about it, I have a version that seems to work well and am translating it.

Even the added verse numbering and chapters testify themselves to that Quran is manipulated in some way.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

[huruf]

Your own forum has content which proves Quran has been corrupted. I am too lazy or rather find it too irrelevant to do it, to search it for you, but you may use the search function. This does not make me wrong in any way, just that I let you yourself seek the answer you ask for it is easy to find.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

The forummay have contents which purport to show something of what you say, but the purporting is not matched by the verification, let alone prove what you say. If that existed, with the antiQur'an aiming worrldwide in fct we would be awash with such proofs. The fact is that I have not yet seen s single one neither in this forum or anywhere else.

If what you refer is to the wellknown and acknowledged extremely few variations Qur'an followers of certain words and signs which do not change at all the meaning of any passge let alone the Qur'an itself, then you may cling to that to uphold the "daring" image of your stance you might try to give, but in fct you know and we all know that it is hot air, nothing else.

Salaam

[huruf]

If you had provided a link you had almost done the job for me. Nevertheless, there are pretty heavy differences in various Quran versions.

Not that I care about it, I have a version that seems to work well and am translating it.

Even the added verse numbering and chapters testify themselves to that Quran is manipulated in some way.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

Yes, it is printed, published, it has ppages and covers and headins and notes sometimes, it has indeed been manipulated. The question is whether anybody would, unlike you, be bothered by such inconsequential and well known and taken into account accessory details.

Don't worry about your imag, even if you do not look s if you were charging against the Qur'an, you still mke your mark.

Man Of Faith,please do it. Prove your side .
Otherwise,few more years will pass and you will still be only talking one liners and claiming.
It has already been few years since you started your project on deciphering Qoran. Are you stuck?

huruf,we keep going in circles with these claims about Qoran.

Guess what ,GOD is spot on,they cannot and will not be able to find any corruption in the original Arabic text.

All people are doing is finding faults in human interpretation of the text.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Yes, just like kids at the fair going around and around... I guess that is what it is for some, some kind of play. But you must acknowledge Good logic that it must be ungratifying to attempt to crash the Qur'an "idol" and find it so uncollaborative. How dare we respect, follow the Qur'an or try to, when there are needy people around who would much rather be themselves the idols and considered followable? You should realise that that kind of treatment is very painful for self-admirers.

I find the situation humorous and think of dogs, who are such unselfish and unassuming teachers. How can they be so self-satisfied with so little vanity or self-admiration. They are a wonder, a beautiful page of the cosmic Qur'an.

One of my dreams is to write a thousands of pages treaty with the teachings of each species for the human kind. I have already thought of bulls (and cows of course), dogs, hens and rats. The latter not the prettiest lesson, but still meaningful.  A pity animals cannot write in the forum.

Salaam

[bkanwar2]

Muslim Clergy claims that Quran was written in the times of Mohammad as a complete book or Mushaf, as it was transmitted by Angel Gabriel and was safely kept with Hafza.  Mohammad's wife and Abu Bkar's daughter.  This book can not be found today.  So yes either such book never existed or this claim is a lie.

Oldest available written Quran's do not have following.   Which clearly proves Muslim believes of no change in text since prophet's time as wrong.   Also, belief of Allah and angles as guards of text for eternity to be wrong. 

1.  Just look and compare, new and old books,  neither Surah name/numbers nor Aya numbers are originally in text.
2.  No irrabs
3.  Signs of vowels are not what you see today.

These are certainly additions to even older available text done at later times.  There is history of these addition written by Muslims, as to when and who did make these changes in the text.   This is entirely human work.   There was no Godly interference to stop it.   

Question, is this a corruption?  So far I can not say it with certainty based upon my own dealings of text.   Changes and alterations, yes. 

Regards,

[bkanwar2]

a

[Wakas]

Since the proponents of such a theory haven't elaborated upon the details, I can only assume they are referring to, for example, the differences in Hafs and Warsh versions of Quran as discussed here for example: https://www.free-minds.org/which-quran

And the so-called variant readings as discussed in TRaditional Islamic history.

The biggest weakness in the above article and subsequent claims is that most of the differences do not alter the message significantly, and that the variances have not been put to the test, i.e. intra-Quran verification. Almost certainly AN and MofF have not conducted such studies.

Oldest available written Quran's do not have following.   Which clearly proves Muslim believes of no change in text since prophet's time.   Also, Allah and angles as guards of text for eternity. 

1.  Just look and compare neither Surah name/numbers nor Aya numbers are originally in text.
2.  No irrabs
3.  Signs of vowels are not what you see today.

I'm more interested in what Quran claims about Quran, rather than what Traditional Muslims believe or claim about Quran, but in any case, your example (1) is irrelevant. Chapter names and verse numbering were added later to ease referencing. It doesn't change the message.

Re: 2) I have no idea what you mean by "irrabs".

Re: 3) Yes, tashkeel/vocalisation (if that is what you are referring to) is not found in oldest Quran scripts, but that doesn't mean the message has been changed. It is still extractable from the original text, although I am aware of some letter and even word differences, but again, not subjected to any intra-Quran verification to my knowledge. For example, Arabic writings of today, e.g. in newspapers, do not have tashkeel/vocalisation.

[bkanwar2]

Re: 2) I have no idea what you mean by "irrabs".

Re: 3) Yes, tashkeel/vocalisation (if that is what you are referring to) is not found in oldest Quran scripts, but that doesn't mean the message has been changed. It is still extractable from the original text, although I am aware of some letter and even word differences, but again, not subjected to any intra-Quran verification to my knowledge. For example, Arabic writings of today, e.g. in newspapers, do not have tashkeel/vocalisation.

Wakas, Irrabs are marking on the last alphabet of a word.   This is the Syntax of Quran.   Syntax is part of any language that conveys the meanings of words as these relate to each in a given sentence.  Some languages use order of word in sentence for determinig relationship of subject and object.   Arabic especially Quranic Arabic lacks this quality.   Subject of the sentence could be at the end of a sentence.  Hence, addition of irrab was a fundamental change to the text. 

Furthermore, Morphology/spelling or Surf.  No body pays attention to it except following, what Tabari has regurgitated in his translation, a defecto Quran now.  Please see following two for comparison.  Check from page 53 in Tabari.

https://islaambooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/the-commentary-on-the-quran-volume-i-tafsir-al-tabari.pdf

Surah 1:1                  بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
One who doesn?t engage in worship derives pleasure from showing the extreme and lasting concern for sufferings or misfortune of others.
Surah 1:2          الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ       
  Surah 1:3              الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
Surah 1:4              مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ
The only praise for the possessor?s of all disciplines of knowledge is no engagement in worship,
This is due to the extreme, lasting concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others, 
This is the eternal mode of conduct, which is exclusively for one?s self.
Surah 1:5              إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ   
You beware of; making us an object of worship also you beware that we are seekers of knowledge.
Surah 1:6                  اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ
We guide against fleeing the path which is original, straight, undeviating and unceasing.
Surah 1:7              صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا الضَّالِّينَ
Those fleeing the path, if you were to inform them, it would be nothing but the cause of anger; confounded, perplexed and unable to see right course.