why do people complicate things?

[justamuslim]

when i separated from my ex, we both mutually agreed to it by declaring verbally that we are separated.   we still lived in the same apartment but didn't have physical contact.  this was the period of working on our relationship.  well, it didn't work.  and so we decided on divorce. verbally and via e-mail we declared ourselves no longer husband and wife.  my ex moved out.  we took care of property and such keeping things civil.  then i filed for legal divorce. 

now, why can't the same be true of marriage?  i have read various opinions and views on marriage where everything is so heavy on tradition, hadiths and such.  why do people make things so complicated?  two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).  once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.   

[mirjamnur]

 
The Nikaah ( contract for married )has been described in very specific Arabic terms by the Quran as a 'Meethaqan Galezaan'.

004:021
"How can you take it (back) after one of you has gone in to the other, and they have taken a solemn covenant (Arabic: Meethaqan Galezaan)?"
 
The 'Meethaqan Galezaan (Solemn Covenant) is arguably one of the most powerful, lasting covenants that can be entered into and has been used in the Quran to describe:

(1) The solemn covenant God took with the Children of Israel with regards the Sabbath (4:154)
(2) The solemn covenant God took with all His prophets (33:7)

The importance and gravity of the nature of such a covenant can be well attested by the two examples above. The only other time such a description is used is with regards 'Nikaah' (4:21)

Given that simple contracts require at least two witnesses (2:282), there can be no argument for the need of independent witnesses to authenticate a covenant of marriage. Therefore, a Nikaah must be enacted in front of other witnesses.

There is further wisdom that can be extracted from such a covenant.

(1) Both parties making the contract should be of sound mind and maturity, have been assessed for marriage suitability and can fulfil the obligations being agreed to within the contract.

(2) Both parties must fully agree to the covenant undertaken therefore they must understand and comprehend the terms with all its related commitments and responsibilities.

(3) Marriage vows are entered into with a view to last a couple's lifetime (source www.quransmessage.com

when i separated from my ex, we both mutually agreed to it by declaring verbally that we are separated.   we still lived in the same apartment but didn't have physical contact.  this was the period of working on our relationship.  well, it didn't work.  and so we decided on divorce. verbally and via e-mail we declared ourselves no longer husband and wife.  my ex moved out.  we took care of property and such keeping things civil.  then i filed for legal divorce. 

now, why can't the same be true of marriage?  i have read various opinions and views on marriage where everything is so heavy on tradition, hadiths and such.  why do people make things so complicated?  two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).  once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.   

dear justamuslim
when you study the nikaah from the Quran you see, that is simple !

[Emil]

two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).

Whaaaat? Kissing and hugging is unislamic??? I beg to differ......Allah has made hugging and kissing, why are you saying it is not from Him?

I actually had this conversation with my wife, you know about the complexity of marriage and this and that paper. In our country a Nikkah is not valid until registred with the IRS which is not done automatically and that adds to the confusion......There are many muslims here who do not know they are not married.......by law that is......Because they have not been informed......Anyways, my wife was worried that since we had intimate contact before the Nikkah was signed that Allah would punish us for this.

I tried to explain that Allah would not punish us, but the concept of Nikkah was haunting her so she was not convinced. The coin dropped however when I asked  what her heart and mind was telling her the first time she kissed me. Was I only a thrill of the moment or did she kiss me because she wanted to be with me, living with me, growing old with me? She answered the latter (lucky me). I asked her eventhough she only felt it and had not told a living soul about her feelings towards me, who else knew? she answered "Allah"............

That is the outmost, that is the thing that matters......A "real" marriage is not a piece of paper claiming authority. The real marriage is in your heart and only Allah can read that.......The real marriage is when you take an oath to your spouse, not when you say "I do" on a piece of paper...If I meet a girl, fall in love and my heart is telling me she is the one, do you think I need a piece of paper to prove to Allah I am sincere? Do you think the girl would see my oath towards her being stronger simply because I sign a paper? If she does she is misguided thinking a signature can govern my heart. The oath I take with Allah as my witness surpasses any paper,

So marriage is simple, your heart will tell you and it will tell Allah, and then you have taken an oath. The rest has nothing to do with Allah because he already knows. The rest is all what society wants you to do.....

[mirjamnur]

Salamu aleikum Emil

Whaaaat? Kissing and hugging is unislamic??? I beg to differ......Allah has made hugging and kissing, why are you saying it is not from Him?

I actually had this conversation with my wife, you know about the complexity of marriage and this and that paper. In our country a Nikkah is not valid until registred with the IRS which is not done automatically and that adds to the confusion......There are many muslims here who do not know they are not married.......by law that is......Because they have not been informed......Anyways, my wife was worried that since we had intimate contact before the Nikkah was signed that Allah would punish us for this.

I tried to explain that Allah would not punish us, but the concept of Nikkah was haunting her so she was not convinced. The coin dropped however when I asked  what her heart and mind was telling her the first time she kissed me. Was I only a thrill of the moment or did she kiss me because she wanted to be with me, living with me, growing old with me? She answered the latter (lucky me). I asked her eventhough she only felt it and had not told a living soul about her feelings towards me, who else knew? she answered "Allah"............

That is the outmost, that is the thing that matters......A "real" marriage is not a piece of paper claiming authority. The real marriage is in your heart and only Allah can read that.......The real marriage is when you take an oath to your spouse, not when you say "I do" on a piece of paper...If I meet a girl, fall in love and my heart is telling me she is the one, do you think I need a piece of paper to prove to Allah I am sincere? Do you think the girl would see my oath towards her being stronger simply because I sign a paper? If she does she is misguided thinking a signature can govern my heart. The oath I take with Allah as my witness surpasses any paper,

So marriage is simple, your heart will tell you and it will tell Allah, and then you have taken an oath. The rest has nothing to do with Allah because he already knows. The rest is all what society wants you to do.....

i I understand your opinion. However, if you read my post  carefully,you will found the nikah contract, as described in the Koran.You should take your oath for witnesses but, human witnesses, because this treaty is so important in the eyes of Allah. Then the Mahr belongs to the marriage  ( see 4.25)
In my understanding, it is also better, and in accordance with Allah's law, that the marriage contract is in writing form as such. Compare 2.282 where should  be two witnesses for a loan. If the spouses  comes from different cultural backgrounds,  the contract prevent possible controversies (specially also when it's come for Talaq). This,not  to complicate matters unnecessarily, but to prevent abuse (specially for the women). This nikah takes five minutes, what we lost? We should bow to the Wisdom of Allah. He is the Knower, the Wise.

[Kaiokenred]

when i separated from my ex, we both mutually agreed to it by declaring verbally that we are separated.   we still lived in the same apartment but didn't have physical contact.  this was the period of working on our relationship.  well, it didn't work.  and so we decided on divorce. verbally and via e-mail we declared ourselves no longer husband and wife.  my ex moved out.  we took care of property and such keeping things civil.  then i filed for legal divorce. 

now, why can't the same be true of marriage?  i have read various opinions and views on marriage where everything is so heavy on tradition, hadiths and such.  why do people make things so complicated?  two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).  once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.

You should replace that with sex and such stuff. Kissing and especially hugging ( even before marriage) aren't unislamic

[BornAgain]

Salaam Emil,

While God witnesses all things, I understand that the Qur'aan prescribes what need to be undertaken before a man and a woman are to marry, such as having mutual attraction, declaring intention to marry, and having marriage contract withnessed by believers. Of course the marriage contract needs not to be coupled by extravagant wedding - that is purely cultural, and not spiritual.

The idea that God is sufficient as the witness of the reunion of two souls does sound very romantic, but it may not be as 'simple' like that. I personally belief that the idea of having a marriage contract witnessed by honourable individuals is to give protection and recognition to both parties involved. Firstly, if the society recognises that the couple is married, then no one can accuse that they perform fornication. Then, if for any reason the marriage does not work out, the woman is protected by Qur'aanic laws that:

1) She will be given four months cooling period and not divorced straight after;
2) Retain the possession of the mahr; and
3) She will retain her wealth and not be kicked out of the house.

It is not all about superficial legalization. It's all about giving social recognition and protection. If a woman cannot produce an evidence that she is married to her husband, how can she claim the above-mentioned rights if her husband suddenly turns his back on her and wants to divorce her straight away? Unfortunately for you, this 'piece of paper' becomes the evidence. Going to court and testifying that, "A few years ago we made verbal contracts that we are married in the eyes of God" may not suffice in the case where the husband denies the marriage.

God does not need the paper to legalize the marriage of a man and a woman. The public marriage contract is for people, and not for God. It serves to recognise and protect, in the case of misfortune.

Also bear in mind that in the distant past, many women were inherited against their will. Some men married women as to claim their wealth (inherited by their husbands), as well as their status. Many divorced the women once they claimed their wealth, which left the women to be severely disadvantaged.

This is when marriage contract (on a physical scribe witnessed by honourable individuals) becomes neccessary.

Anyway, marriage contract can be done modestly, and you don't have to do what the society expects you to do. You don't need to have extravagant wedding with enormous cake, expensive wedding attires, grand reception, etc.

[BornAgain]

For the OP of this thread,

once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.

Of course you can. I am not sure about where you reside at the moment, but in Australia, the presence of civil celebrant and two sound witnesses are sufficient to make the marriage recognised by the state. I understand that the Qur'aanic approach is similar (apart from the request of dowry by the bride).

That's if you can withstand the social criticism that may arise from your not conforming to the traditional approach. What is legally and/or Qur'aanically acceptable may not be socially acceptable, unfortunately.

two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic)

In contemporary society, many believe that the-getting-to-know phase needs to involve physical interaction such as hugging and kissing, or even sexual intercourse. One can argue that the couple needs to know if they are physically/sexually compatible. It's their belief, and of course we are free to disagree.

If you feel that one or the combination of emotional, intellectual and spiritual incompatibilities shall be enough to base a marriage, then by all means go for it! Many may disagree, but ultimately it is your belief, your choice and your life.

[Emil]

Salamu aleikum Emil
i I understand your opinion. However, if you read my post  carefully,you will found the nikah contract, as described in the Koran.You should take your oath for witnesses but, human witnesses, because this treaty is so important in the eyes of Allah. Then the Mahr belongs to the marriage  ( see 4.25)
In my understanding, it is also better, and in accordance with Allah's law, that the marriage contract is in writing form as such. Compare 2.282 where should  be two witnesses for a loan. If the spouses  comes from different cultural backgrounds,  the contract prevent possible controversies (specially also when it's come for Talaq). This,not  to complicate matters unnecessarily, but to prevent abuse (specially for the women). This nikah takes five minutes, what we lost? We should bow to the Wisdom of Allah. He is the Knower, the Wise.

Salaam dear sister

I understand what you mean, and I am sorry I was not clear in my writing. When I read back now it sounds a bit like I am disregarding the ceremony, Nikkah, witnesses, signing of papers etc. Like its not important.....Not my intention.

What I was trying to put forth is that the oath taken between a man and a woman with Allah as their witness is the strongest bond/contract there will be. If you break this oath your judgement will be in the grace of Allah. The oath taken by you supersedes any contract, any witness, any "proof" that you are married to your spouse. Nobody but Him knows the reason for you to get married, only He knows if you are true in your heart. Signing a piece of paper is a false security, it does not guarantee your husband or wife will stay true to you.
And when it comes to witnesses.........Of course there must be witnesses but what is a witness? If I would meet you for example and introduce my wife as "my wife" don't you become a witness to my proclamation that the woman standing next to me is my wife? Your neigbours, family, friends, not-so-close friends, your pals at work.......They are all witnesses, aren't they? I do not think all those people should be disregarded just because their name is not on a piece of paper.
And I am truly sorry that a Nikkah is a guarantee against abuse, especially for women....A marriage should be nothing about that and there is a fundamental flaw in society if women need a signed paper in order to have some kind of security. In my experience the Nikkah has had the opposite effect, abusive men using Allah to hold on to their wives. I just want to scream out that these men have broken their covenant with God. How on earth can a piece of paper be a stronger bond than an oath taken in the name of Allah?

Please dont get me wrong. When I got married I was the one who insisted on throwing a lavish party and we danced all night long, I am a romantic and I wanted the whole nine yards. I liked it so much we actually had two ceremonies........But I do realize that the ceremony did not change my heart. What mattered was when I promised my wife that I would love, protect and cherish her for the rest of my life.........And the only one that heard that promise except for her was Allah.

[mirjamnur]

dear brother
yes now it is much more clear! i'm 100% agree with you .
your write:
And I am truly sorry that a Nikkah is a guarantee against abuse, especially for women....A marriage should be nothing about that and there is a fundamental flaw in society if women need a signed paper in order to have some kind of security. In my experience the Nikkah has had the opposite effect, abusive men using Allah to hold on to their wives. I just want to scream out that these men have broken their covenant with God. How on earth can a piece of paper be a stronger bond than an oath taken in the name of Allah?
i feel the same but our society seems to need this  because their faith in Allah is not how it should be..
salaam

[justamuslim]

The public marriage contract is for people, and not for God. It serves to recognise and protect, in the case of misfortune.

Not necessarily.  Whether you have legal papers, witnesses or no witnesses, someone who is not of spiritual mind will find a way to abuse.     

My ex did everything he could from owning up to my grounds for divorce which was that he was abusive to me.  And then he even asked for alimony as I was making more than him.  Finally after 1-1/2 years, i got my divorce.  This public legal marriage sure didn't protect me. 

A good man with good intentions abiding by the will of God will protect, respect and honor a woman regardless.  A man who is abusive will mistreat a woman finding his ways regardless of any laws of God or men.  I am speaking from personal experience.   

[huruf]

I am puzzled by this divorcing between sex and marriage. You cannot have sex before marriage and all that. The sin is not to have sex before marriage, but to divorce sex from marriage. Nikah is both things. What marr4iage is not is a legalisation of sex. Sex is intimate, sacred. When it is taken as casual, as not involving the whole person and the whole intention and conscious of the mithaqan ghalithan that intimacy should entail, are desecrating themselves, their acts and their pacts and undertakings.

But, when somebody undertakes such a mithaq, if it is real, i it is serious, if it is intended to be truthful, then it also must be bounding, but if it is not public nobody knows it is bounding, and after, if problems arise nobody can vouch for who is being injured in his or her legitimate rights or interests or not.

Therefore, marriage is an intimate, simple but not unimportant, and the commitment itself my be intimate, but since it has public consequences it should also be tread as a public contract. But of course, public contracts can also be very simple and the signing brief and easily done with.

Salam

[justamuslim]

Koran is crystal clear on divorce about taking an oath with God and two people as witnesses.   And whoever transgresses the law is a sinner.   When it comes to marriage, there is not a verse as clear cut as in divorce requiring witnesses stating that if you don't then you have transgressed.   The question is - would it be a sin for a couple to take an oath of marriage declaring each other husband and wife secretly?   We are not talking about protecting each other's interests and such.  What I am talking about is what makes a marriage a marriage?   Legal papers, documents, ceremony, certain specific witnesses?  Is it bounding only if the public knows about it?   

Ok - if I meet someone and we get to know each other for the purpose of marriage, meet in person to confirm our feelings and mutual attraction for each other.  And then decide to marry each other but because of circumstances (family, job, etc) getting married publically is not the best course at that moment.  However given how we feel about each and not wanting to commit a sin, we decide to take an oath of commitment with God as a witness considering each other husband and wife with the full intention of publically getting married when circumstances and situation changes.  As God knows what is in your heart and intention, does what the public think really matter?     

But, when somebody undertakes such a mithaq, if it is real, i it is serious, if it is intended to be truthful, then it also must be bounding, but if it is not public nobody knows it is bounding, and after, if problems arise nobody can vouch for who is being injured in his or her legitimate rights or interests or not.

The Koran is clear on the process of divorce.    Shoud the marriage end up  in divorce, laws of God must be followed.  if either party doesn't follow the laws set by God then that person has sinned.  If the man or the woman deny, then they have sinned only against themselves.   You can lie to yourself, lie to others but can't lie to God. 

[Kaiokenred]

Koran is crystal clear on divorce about taking an oath with God and two people as witnesses.   And whoever transgresses the law is a sinner.   When it comes to marriage, there is not a verse as clear cut as in divorce requiring witnesses stating that if you don't then you have transgressed.   The question is - would it be a sin for a couple to take an oath of marriage declaring each other husband and wife secretly?   We are not talking about protecting each other's interests and such.  What I am talking about is what makes a marriage a marriage?   Legal papers, documents, ceremony, certain specific witnesses?  Is it bounding only if the public knows about it?   

Ok - if I meet someone and we get to know each other for the purpose of marriage, meet in person to confirm our feelings and mutual attraction for each other.  And then decide to marry each other but because of circumstances (family, job, etc) getting married publically is not the best course at that moment.  However given how we feel about each and not wanting to commit a sin, we decide to take an oath of commitment with God as a witness considering each other husband and wife with the full intention of publically getting married when circumstances and situation changes.  As God knows what is in your heart and intention, does what the public think really matter?     

The Koran is clear on the process of divorce.    Shoud the marriage end up  in divorce, laws of God must be followed.  if either party doesn't follow the laws set by God then that person has sinned.  If the man or the woman deny, then they have sinned only against themselves.   You can lie to yourself, lie to others but can't lie to God.

Nothing in a christianized Quran that is heavily affected by hadiths is crystal clear, sorry

[huruf]

The thing is that we do live in society, we are conditioned and complemented by society and that we may ignore society at our peril. The Qur'an does not enjoin that we make abstraction of society. We must certainly not sacrifice principles and convictions to society, but it is brainless and delusionary to leave it aside as if it did not exist and was not an undetachable part of our destiny.
Nikah is is involved when man and woman have sexual relations. To disociate between nikah and marriage is a lie which, depending on the society, ends by putting blame on the woman particularly when she is misled by promises and compromises that are lied or which even beeing sincere can be discarded later if convenient, and on top of it say that if she was serious in the first place she should not have accepted such a situation. The woman is left then at the mercy of society. What does it matter whether she was sincere and made it very seriously. That "intimate marriage" for her will have been a trap. On the other hand many times laws have been so hard on women that marriage, any marriage, was a trap, but not being married could be an even worse trap. Many women have ended up being prostitutes because those promises and commitments were lied or forgeotten by their partners and the women were left with children and being thrown out of their families.
Birth is very intimate but equally public and even without signing a contract in fact the laws impose such contract on parents, conspicuously on the mother, so fine, very sincere, very much before God and all that, but the consequences derived from marriage will not just be intimate and isolated from the rest. Nor should they be. Children have parents and both parents should be acknowledged and demanded upon as such. To hide behind a "private" compromise to evade that may result in trouble. Nobody wants to believe that when he or she is in love, but it does happen, it happens all the time. An many times people who do that under the spell of love are young and inexperienced and should not be left to their inexperience to suffer later on because of it  and their offspring likewise.

Of ocurse it is compeltely different if it was something between an older woman who cannot procreated any more, but I personally don't like it. If one wants something which is legitimate to want, why should one hide it or make it private, when in fact life contains a lot of private aspects, but the whole of it is not private. Make it as brief, simple and as unceremenious as one wishes and with as few witnesses as one wants, but why make it a secret when later events and behaviour will show that in fact people do have a certain relationship? Why keep people guessing, not necessarily with any bad intentions, although that can also be, and confuse them about issues?

Therefore the thing itself is very private, the most private thing in life that can be shared with another, but it does reflect on everything else, just like the birth of the offspring reflects on everything else even if it absolutely private in itself.

Except in  very exceptional circumstances, I don't really see the usefulness in real life of making a secret of marriage. In novels and films of course it may be unavoidable.

Salaam

[justamuslim]

huruf,

absolutely agree with you.  each persons situation/circumstance is unique.  each person has to decide what is best and right for them.   now, it is not a sin if a couple marry secretly.  however, like you said there is a greater potential of abuse. 

reality is with every law/system in place there are those who will abuse it.    laws of the land necessarily don't protect a woman.  having learned the hard way, the best way for me to protect myself is to get a prenupt.   even then it is not a guarantee.   you can have family, friends, the law on your side, but there are those who have no regard for God, laws or family. 

there is a practice of fatiha where couple take an oath with close family/friends - not a legal marriage but recognizing the couple and it is upto them if they want to wait till after the big ceremony to consummate the marriage or not.   often the imam performs the ceremony.   again, potential of abuse.  as no legal papers were signed, can't legally hold the person financial responsible.  family/friends can put pressure to do the right thing but legally nothing can be done.   

each persons circumstance is different but i think the best approach is once a couple has agreed on marriage is to draw up a marriage contract and prenupt (not so romantic but not very romantic either when things go bad), and  get married legally.   if waiting for months or year is going to be an issue (as it is with elaborate wedding ceremonies) then go to court (if that is not romantic enough then go to los vegas) and get married first and then have your big blow out celebration. 

this is my approach and terms.   if a guy doesn't agree to it, then see ya! 

also, about kissing/hugging before marriage - why put yourself in that situation?  why not wait till after marriage?  i have had guys having issues with that.  sorry, if a guy wants to show his emotions/feelings then do so with a yards distance and not before legal marriage.   

[justamuslim]

huruf,

marriage doesn't mean sex.  koran mentions that and what to do if the marriage ends before consummation. 

ok - example.  let's say i meet someone on-line.   we get to know each other.  with skype, exchanging pictures, talking on the phone, texting, etc -  can fall in love with a person and decide on marriage even before meeting.  we can take an oath of marriage via phone, texting, e-mailing.   although we are living far and not in physical contact, the oath is binding.  just because a couple are not having sex doesn't mean it is not ligit and not to be taken seriously.   of course, you can't marry legally living apart.  but if a couple chooses, can meet up and get married legally and not consummate the marriage until later time. 

i read the koran and all seems so simple.  why not make life simple and practical?  but we just have to complicate things with rules of courtship, engagement ceremonies, lavish weddings, valimas, and all these traditions, customs.

[Kaiokenred]

huruf,

marriage doesn't mean sex.  koran mentions that and what to do if the marriage ends before consummation. 

ok - example.  let's say i meet someone on-line.   we get to know each other.  with skype, exchanging pictures, talking on the phone, texting, etc -  can fall in love with a person and decide on marriage even before meeting.  we can take an oath of marriage via phone, texting, e-mailing.   although we are living far and not in physical contact, the oath is binding.  just because a couple are not having sex doesn't mean it is not ligit and not to be taken seriously.   of course, you can't marry legally living apart.  but if a couple chooses, can meet up and get married legally and not consummate the marriage until later time. 

i read the koran and all seems so simple.  why not make life simple and practical?  but we just have to complicate things with rules of courtship, engagement ceremonies, lavish weddings, valimas, and all these traditions, customs.

And why would you care if it's legal to some crappy state or not?

Man made laws ( legislations ) aren't Islamic

[justamuslim]

And why would you care if it's legal to some crappy state or not?

Man made laws ( legislations ) aren't Islamic

I agree.   And I have experienced man made laws personally to know.  States don't recognize Islamic marriages.  For purpose of health insurance, beneficiary, etc, one has to have a legal marriage.  Personally, this is what I think.  A marriage is binding when a couple take an oath with God as a witnesses.  It is binding irrespective of whether it is done without any human witnesses or done publically on national TV.   Having said that, I will NOT consummate the marriage till getting prenupt is notarized and then married legally.   Why?  ok - let's face it.  there are guys who will say anything, promising the world to get in a girls skirts (sex).  We have to recognize that there are those with evil, malice tendency, having not much moral values, no respect for God, koran, family.   So, it is for my own protection. 

The laws of the State will not protect me.  Which is why I will not enter a legal marriage without prenupt basically spelling out that the Islamic law.  The marriage contract would be that both of us will take a vow that we are marrying for all the right reasons (not for green card, money, etc) and will honor, respect, be compassionate towards each other basing our marriage on Islamic principles of mutual respect and compassion, not be selfish, not let the marriage get sick.  Should it then we will follow all the steps as mentioned in the Koran to salvage the marriage.   Now, if either party commits adultery or some major offense then that will be grounds for divorce and the person who violated will leave without equitable division of property or alimony.   You think it is right when a guy cheats on his wife and then is entitled to alimony and vice versa?    The process of divorce and conditions of divorce will be as outlined in the Koran.  No drawn out custody battles or avoiding taking responsibility or abusing the legal system to ones advantage which only costs undue stress, time and money. 

So you can take God's guidance, implementing it, making life simple, practical, peaceful.   

 

[drfazl]

There absolitely is no need at all for human witnesses to a marriage. Allah says Give her the Mehr - the livelihood for her life and then marry her. The livelihood being food and house to the girl, as Mehr. Fear Allah when you enter in to marital contract. Thus to get married Allah stands sole witness, the Best of All Witnesses. No other witnesses shall be entertained. But when you decide on divorce, Allah is not at all a vitness thereunto. Rather you can appoint a witness from both the sides and get separated 4-35.

Wheb such divorce happens husband shall leave "her" house; not the wife shall leave "her" house.

[justamuslim]

Researching the Koran, I didn't find anywhere requiring two witnesses for marriage.  So, is it in the hadiths then or just tradition passed on?   

[mirjamnur]

Salam all

when i read the Quran first, i didn't found it also. but i found an article, who points to an important thing:

Quote from the article:
The Quranic narratives do not legislate the specific details of the 'Nikaah' (contract of marriage) but rather prescribe its necessity as a precursor to a legitimate wedlock.

It also does not impose the traditions of any set of people on another, be they of Arab decent or of another community. Furthermore, the narratives do not intend to remove customs of a people as long they are not incongruent with the spirit of Islam. Therefore any customs which are unduly superstitious, run counter to the guidance of the Quran or most importantly, impinge on the sole trust placed on the Creator alone should be curtailed.

The Nikaah has been described in very specific Arabic terms by the Quran as a 'Meethaqan Galezaan'.

004:021
"How can you take it (back) after one of you has gone in to the other, and they have taken a solemn covenant (Arabic: Meethaqan Galezaan)?"


The 'Meethaqan Galezaan (Solemn Covenant) is arguably one of the most powerful, lasting covenants that can be entered into and has been used in the Quran to describe:

(1) The solemn covenant God took with the Children of Israel with regards the Sabbath (4:154)
(2) The solemn covenant God took with all His prophets (33:7)

The importance and gravity of the nature of such a covenant can be well attested by the two examples above. The only other time such a description is used is with regards 'Nikaah' (4:21)

Given that simple contracts require at least two witnesses (2:282), there can be no argument for the need of independent witnesses to authenticate a covenant of marriage. Therefore, a Nikaah must be enacted in front of other witnesses.

There is further wisdom that can be extracted from such a covenant.
please read: http://quransmessage.com/articles/nikaah%20FM3.htm
Peace 

[renztubz]

In my marriage life, I really avoid complications.