Virginity of Mary is a mistranslation from Hebrew to Greek to English

[Euphoric]

The term "virgin" in reference to Mary is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word "alma," which means "young woman," into the Greek word "parthenos," which means "virgin."

Bible scholars have noted this mistranslation https://ehrmanblog.org/why-was-jesus-born-of-a-virgin-in-matthew-and-luke/

In many verses, the Quran denies the polytheistic belief of miraculous births. One clearly stating in Surah 16:04 that all insaan are created from a drop of sperm.

I've posted many verses against the idea of miracle births https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612455.msg442383#msg442383

[Euphoric]

Here is what jewsforjesus have to say on the matter:

"In the few verses where almah appears, the word clearly denotes a young woman who is not married but is of marriageable age. Although almah does not implicitly denote virginity, it is never used in the Scriptures to describe a "young, presently married woman." It is important to remember that in the Bible, a young Jewish woman of marriageable age was presumed to be chaste.

The prophet could have chosen a different word had he wanted to describe Immanuel's mother as a virgin. Betulah is a more common way to refer to a woman who has never been with a man (both in biblical and modern Hebrew).

In the Hebrew Scriptures, there are two types of betulot—the true virgin, and the "betrothed virgin" (betulah m'orashah). In Deuteronomy 22, a betrothed virgin is referred to as a man's "wife" (ishah). The state of betrothal was just as serious and sacred as the married state and the difference between the two appears, in some instances, to be a mere formality. The word betulah, commonly understood as virgin, is still not precise."

[jkhan]

Here is what jewsforjesus have to say on the matter:

"In the few verses where almah appears, the word clearly denotes a young woman who is not married but is of marriageable age. Although almah does not implicitly denote virginity, it is never used in the Scriptures to describe a "young, presently married woman." It is important to remember that in the Bible, a young Jewish woman of marriageable age was presumed to be chaste.

The prophet could have chosen a different word had he wanted to describe Immanuel's mother as a virgin. Betulah is a more common way to refer to a woman who has never been with a man (both in biblical and modern Hebrew).

In the Hebrew Scriptures, there are two types of betulot—the true virgin, and the "betrothed virgin" (betulah m'orashah). In Deuteronomy 22, a betrothed virgin is referred to as a man's "wife" (ishah). The state of betrothal was just as serious and sacred as the married state and the difference between the two appears, in some instances, to be a mere formality. The word betulah, commonly understood as virgin, is still not precise."

Peace everyone..

I don't know what Euphoric is trying to describe here, have anyone understood him?

Matter is so clear though in Quran..

To be a male or female and be married or unmarried they all have to guard their CHASTITY (specifically extra-marital sex) and only the purity/chastity can be breached with their respective legal spouse. Am I right according to the Quran..?

Maryam guarded/protected her chastity... Since Maryam was an unmarried person when Ruh Messenger came to give the glad tiding of a child, she can be called a virgin since she never had a sexual relationship with ANY MAN.. Had she gone into a man who is her husband she would not have said that no man has touched her.
So a couple of things make her a virgin and her virginity is truthful.. 1.. She is never married 2... and no man has touched her being her legal spouse.. So single ... but guarded against any illegal sexual intercourse.. If the husband has touched a woman she can't be a virgin but she can still be chaste she guarded her chastity but she can't guard her virginity..

Now what harm in calling her Virgin... or is Brother Euphoric trying to say that the specific word Virginity is not mentioned in the Quran connected with Maryam.. Yes, I do agree.. Indeed Chastity is mentioned in the word and not VIRGINITY..  but indeed she was a virgin literally when the RUH Messenger gave her glad tiding otherwise how can being unmarried guard her chastity?

Interestingly word Ahsanath is used for Maryam and not Hafidu..

[Euphoric]

I'm talking about Mary not Mariam.

For the slow people: The Bible has been mistranslated. As the title of this thread says.

Mary of the Bible was a fornicator. Evidence posted here https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612455.msg442383#msg442383 Jesus was born through fornication.

Virgin births are polytheistic beliefs.

There are no virgin births in the Quran.  To believe Mariam gave birth without any manly intervention is rejection of many verses of the Quran. Evidence here https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612455.msg442383#msg442383

The Quran doesn't say Mariam was unmarried. You can be married and not have sex as it says in the Quran 33:49.

It only quoted her claiming no man touched her. Obviously a man DID touch her that's how Eissa was born. https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612455.msg442383#msg442383

This is consistent with all the other verses in the Quran. Everyone given the news of a child had a partner - Ibrahim - no one has a child without sex.

There IS harm in calling Mariam a virgin even after she gave birth to Eissa. It makes a person stupid and a disbeliever.

Not sure where the confusion is?

Now what harm in calling her Virgin... or is Brother Euphoric trying to say that the specific word Virginity is not mentioned in the Quran connected with Maryam.. Yes, I do agree.. Indeed Chastity is mentioned in the word and not VIRGINITY..  but indeed she was a virgin literally when the RUH Messenger gave her glad tiding otherwise how can being unmarried guard her chastity?

Interestingly word Ahsanath is used for Maryam and not Hafidu..

[jkhan]

I'm talking about Mary not Mariam.

Let's keep the virgin birth away and it is a big topic and Quran is clear Isa was born without father.. let's delve into it in another topic..

Now let me concentrate on this topic..

You mean to say there are two Marys involved here.. One is Maryam and the other is Mary... I am hearing this from few people of late...

But for me, all talk about one and only Maryam.. They took Maryam and Isa as two gods and that Maryam and Isa were none other same as Maryam and her son Maseeh Isa..
They called the Isa son of God... Just reflect on Quran verses. The people who claimed Isa son of God were living while the Quran was revealed...  Quran is clear about it and I am happy about that..

btw Indeed Maryam was a virgin but the Quran has not used the word virgin for sure.. She guarded her chastity and no man ever touched her..

Allah could have sent the Ruh Messenger and told Maryam to get married instead of giving her a glad tiding of a child.. But straight away messenger said of a glad tiding of a child by which she was astonished and questioned what she questioned.. that's more than evidence she was virgin..

Allah is asking Isa son of Maryam 5:116-117 and not from any other second person alleged as JESUS... reflect..

thank you

[jkhan]

The Quran doesn't say Mariam was unmarried. You can be married and not have sex as it says in the Quran 33:49.

Don't be this much prejudiced brother to substantiate what you believe and not willing to unearth truth within the Quran... You have decided with extrinsic options and trying your level best to substantiate then your claim within Quran but instead had you decided within Quran that would have been better..

Look at your above statement.. never befits with the context and flow of the verse.. Do you mean to say Maryam was married and not yet copulated while Ruh Messenger gave her glad tiding.. The context of the verse doesn't seem so.. Why should Maryam say how can I have a child when NO MAN HAS TOUCHED HER.. and was she unaware sooner or later her marriage life would go into sexual intercourse had she married and doesn't she know how a child gets its birth to ask a how can I have a child... And RUH messenger replied it is easy for your Lord and why to say when He intends, He says 'Be it' and 'It is'...

Look Maryam needless to say to a Messenger of Allah about her private life.. why should she say 'No man has touched her' Instead she could have reflected and accepted the glad tidings.. Moreover, why would she say 'NO MAN' instead she would have worded 'MY HUSBAND'..

I am happy with the Quran and not extrinsic options....

thank you

[Euphoric]

Let's keep the virgin birth away and it is a big topic and Quran is clear Isa was born without father.. let's delve into it in another topic..

It's not a big topic, it's quite easy and straightforward.

Eissa had a father, every human does. His mother Mariam had sex with a man, got pregnant and gave birth to Eissa. That's the process of human reproduction mentioned in the Quran https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612455.msg442383#msg442383

That is according to the Quran.

Nowhere does the Quran say Mariam was unmarried, or that she was a virgin.

It also doesn't mean she wasn't TOUCHED AFTER

Your Christian beliefs do not hold weight here.

You mean to say there are two Marys involved here.. One is Maryam and the other is Mary... I am hearing this from few people of late...

I wasn't talking about Mariam, you were.

The mistranslation was about Mary being a virgin. Mary not being a virgin agrees with the Quranic teachings of reproduction. A woman cannot have a baby without man's fluid.

The Bible has 6 Mary's. The one referred to in the post was the one who fornicated and had the false messiah named Jesus or Yeshua.

God of the Quran states 23:12-14

12 And indeed, We created Insaan from an extract of clay,

13 then placed each as a sperm-drop in a secure place, then We developed the drop into a clinging clot, then developed the clot into a lump,

14 then developed the lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, then We brought it into being as a new creation. So Blessed is Allah, the Best of Creators.

Unless you believe Eissa wasn't insan?

[jkhan]

It's not a big topic, it's quite easy and straightforward.

Eissa had a father, every human does. His mother Mariam had sex with a man, got pregnant and gave birth to Eissa. That's the process of human reproduction mentioned in the Quran https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612455.msg442383#msg442383

That's your speculation when it comes to Isa, Son of Maryam...
There is always something called supernatural in a natural life... That's intentional by Allah... Isa's case is supernatural and the Quran has all the succor to claim so.. But if you wish only..

Whatever Allah stated in verse 3:59 has an intent and compares Adam with Isa... Allah could have compared Adam with Ibrahim or Musa or Yahya but Allah compared only Isa with Adam.. very intentional and has a very valid reason to do so.

If Maryam had a husband in the name of Joseph and Isa had a father in the name of Joseph, the logical question is 'Why would people call Isa, the son of God while Isa's father was Joseph and his mother was Maryam?' ....  Were they prompted to call without any reason by their random choice? If the fluid inside the womb of Maryam were of Joseph's, how can one ever even imagine calling Isa all of a sudden as Son of God or even Three in One as God Himself..

Why do some others make even Maryam a god as well along with Isa 5:116..

Why Isa was called Son of Maryam throughout the Quran and never given any weight to who his father was...

Your concern is whose fluid was it if Isa was born miraculously... It's not fluid of any other human... It is the creation of Allah... Can't Allah create a fluid inside the womb? He says 'BE' and "IT IS" for this, He doesn't need the assistance of any other human being..

Thank you..

[Emre_1974tr]

Dear Euphoric;

Jesus was Joshua

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612492.msg442619#msg442619


And miracles are real.

A miracle is when God does something, not in the way He has always done it, but this time in a different way.

For example, the creation of Adam and Jesus without sexual intercourse,

The creation of the universe out of nothing,

In the Hereafter Universe (Indallah), humans will again be created directly from the ground,

[jkhan]

3:45 when the Malaika/angels (plural) said, "O Maryam, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Isa, the son of Maryam, distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near

If you happen to read the above verse 3:45 onwards, you would roughly understand that Malika MessengerS(plural) have visited Maryam and they have given glad tidings of a boy and how he will be in the future prior to the visit of RUH Messenger (singular) i.e. Gibreal 19:19 in the form of a human being to accomplish what was promised by previous Messengers of Allah (Malaika) who visited Maryam with glad tidings. This time (19:19) it is not to give glad tidings again but to grant it and thus make the promise come true... Glad tidings were given to Ibrahim or Zakariya of a child but not came Ruh to make it accomplished...
Let's read the verses..

19:17 "..... Then We sent to her Our Ruh, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man."
19:18 She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you if you should be conscious."
19:19 He said, "I am only a messenger of your Lord to grant you a pure boy."
19:20 She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"
19:21 He said: Like that; your Lord says: It is easy to Me: and that We may make him a SIGN to men and a mercy from Us, and it is a matter which has been decreed.
19:22 So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

If you carefully read there is no husband involved here... Gibreal came with a purpose to be accomplished... Maryam got afraid and sought refuge in Ar Rahman, and immediately Gibreal confirmed he was a messenger of Allah and presented the reason for his visit to her.. And the reason was to GRANT/GIVE her a pure boy..
And Maryam, unfortunately, repeated the same question that she said to those previous Malaika Messengers when they visited her with a message of Glad tidings of a boy first time (3:47) i.e. How can I have a son... and she added desperately that she was neither UNCHASTE ... Why should she confirm all possible ways a child can be born to a woman.. reflect.. Then read 19:21 .. Indeed Isa was a sign to people... Human being cannot be a sign unless he possessed something supernatural..

After stating BE and IT IS, Allah states So She conceived/carried him...

For me, all these conspicuous verses are more than enough to claim and stay in my stance... And I am not the one leaning to Christian cultures by claiming Joseph is the father of Isa but who says so.. Thank you..