Surrogacy

[jkhan]

Peace everyone

Sania I am not addressing  here merely you but everyone who wish to read and may ponder and choose what probably God has in fact ordered..

33:04 " ...... Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. And He has not made your wives whom you declare unlawful your mothers, And he has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the

way.

33:05 "Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful"


Above two verses almost everyone would have read.. In them God clearly talks about Adopted child/ren.. He has ALLOWED/Halal adopting a child or NOT is Upto us to decide using the reasons of the verses.. But in literal verses not listed as ALLOWED.. But we deduce it allowed..

Significant point is once we take it is allowed,  then who are these adopted children.. Are they really our own children?  No.. Strong objection from God.. Coz God refuses to call them even by adopted person as father.. If Known who the father is call them by his name and if not just as brothers (not biological but in religion)...  So if another person give birth to a child that can be only theirs... By any means child belongs to another to the extent of parents of child relationships... That further confirms by below verse..

58:02 "they are not [consequently] their mothers. Their mothers are none but those who gave birth to them"
It's common not specific to one group..

Now if one adopted a child in the form of surrogacy... Child deserves legally a father and mother in his her life.. Leave legal aside, child needs from childhood to call someone as his her father and mother..
But parents will definitely 99% will hide his her true birth mother.. Coz it is an agreement.. Once baby is delivered no more connection..
But God keeps claiming Non is one's mother other than the one who gave birth to a child.. How can one separate a birth mother from child... So..
to practice surrogacy many a Quranic instructions need to be violated obviously as under
1... Making adopted son as son or daughter ... Violation of quran.. Such parent will never call the baby adopted..
2.... Taking as mother who didn't give birth literally..
3... Discarding the one who gave birth who is in fact mother according to Quran ...
4... God says treat your parents... Depriving the child from it.. One cannot have two mothers like one cannot have two hearts

[Noon waalqalami]

Ah no I am looking for verses which can give me some insight whether the claim by sectarians that biological mother is not considered the mother of the baby Because according to Quran a mother is the one who carries you and breastfeed you, not the one with whom you share your genes, is true or not ? I was looking for more Quranic evidences like that because then the sectarians are implying that the baby can also marry the biological mother since according to their understanding of Quran biological mothers are not actually mothers. Which kind of sounds absurd. I donot understand why some people have a problem with it. At the end of the day it's just transfering the cells into your body. Dont we transfer blood, kidney, cornea etc ? In my eyes it's the same thing tbh

Peace,
The birth mother and her mother, etc. are considered mothers theirs.
Regardless of the conception method they become inheritors as well.

Quranically woman who gives birth is the mother, surrogate example:

3:47 قالت said (f) رب lord اني whence يكون being لي to me ولد offspring ولم and not يمسسني touched me بشر mortal قال said كذلك like such الله the god يخلق created ما what يشا willed اذا when of قضي decree امرا directive of فانما so solely يقول speaketh له to it كن be فيكون so being

Sanaa, Dār al-maḫṭūṭāt: DAM 01-29.1
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/47?handschrift=173



Likewise, if the father (i.e. donor) is known they are called thus otherwise brethren and friends.

33:4 ما not جعل made الله the god لرجل for man من of قلبين hearts two في in جوفه interior his وما and not جعل made ازوجكم spouses yours الي those (f/p) تظهرون thou declaring منهن of them امهتكم mothers yours وما and not جعل made ادعيكم adopted sons yours ابنكم sons yours ذلكم such yours قولكم speech yours بافوهكم with mouths yours والله and the god يقول speaketh الحق the truth وهو and he يهدي guided السبيل the pathway
33:5 ادعوهم calls ye them لابيهم to fathers theirs هو it اقسط more just عند with الله the god فان so if لم not تعلموا know ye of اباهم fathers theirs فاخونكم so brethren yours في in الدين the creed وموليكم and friends yours وليس and not is عليكم upon you جنح guilt فيما in what اخطاتم err you به in it ولكن and however ما what تعمدت intended قلوبكم hearts yours وكان and be الله the god غفورا forgiver of رحيما merciful of


The same applies with in vitro fertilization mother gives birth, father/donor if known.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterm_birth
Amillia Taylor is also often cited as the most premature baby. She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, U.S. at 21 weeks and 6 days (153 days) gestation. This report has created some confusion as her gestation was measured from the date of conception (through in vitro fertilization) rather than the date of her mothers last menstrual period, making her appear 2 weeks younger than if gestation was calculated by the more common method.

21 weeks + 6 days = 153 days = 5.28 months pregnancy time
Amillia requires 24.72 (25) months (30 – 5.28 (5)) breastfeeding

[Sania Haque]

Peace everyone

Sania I am not addressing  here merely you but everyone who wish to read and may ponder and choose what probably God has in fact ordered..

33:04 " ...... Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. And He has not made your wives whom you declare unlawful your mothers, And he has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the

way.

33:05 "Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful"


Above two verses almost everyone would have read.. In them God clearly talks about Adopted child/ren.. He has ALLOWED/Halal adopting a child or NOT is Upto us to decide using the reasons of the verses.. But in literal verses not listed as ALLOWED.. But we deduce it allowed..

Significant point is once we take it is allowed,  then who are these adopted children.. Are they really our own children?  No.. Strong objection from God.. Coz God refuses to call them even by adopted person as father.. If Known who the father is call them by his name and if not just as brothers (not biological but in religion)...  So if another person give birth to a child that can be only theirs... By any means child belongs to another to the extent of parents of child relationships... That further confirms by below verse..

58:02 "they are not [consequently] their mothers. Their mothers are none but those who gave birth to them"
It's common not specific to one group..

Now if one adopted a child in the form of surrogacy... Child deserves legally a father and mother in his her life.. Leave legal aside, child needs from childhood to call someone as his her father and mother..
But parents will definitely 99% will hide his her true birth mother.. Coz it is an agreement.. Once baby is delivered no more connection..
But God keeps claiming Non is one's mother other than the one who gave birth to a child.. How can one separate a birth mother from child... So..
to practice surrogacy many a Quranic instructions need to be violated obviously as under
1... Making adopted son as son or daughter ... Violation of quran.. Such parent will never call the baby adopted..
2.... Taking as mother who didn't give birth literally..
3... Discarding the one who gave birth who is in fact mother according to Quran ...
4... God says treat your parents... Depriving the child from it.. One cannot have two mothers like one cannot have two hearts

Everything just went above my head. At this point you are asking questions that are plainly illogical. A surrogate baby is going to have a biological father and a biological mother so i have no idea how a baby is going to be deprived of parents. As for the surrogate mother, it depends on the contract form between the parents if she wants to be the part of baby's life or not. There are so many parents who let their children know their surrogate mothers ( if the surrogate mother wants it ). You are bringing your own emotions here. I think we should stop this discussion here. And I agree with brother neptin that Quran was revealed in the context of 7th century when the baby automatically carried the genes of the mother who conceived them.

To answer your question,

Isn't Zina forbidden? So basically how can someone has sex with their boyfriend.
Can one have sex with prostitute ? Yes they definitely can. It's their choice to disobey Allah when he has CLEARLY made zina forbidden.
And to answer all your questions, one can do whatever they want. You cannot take away someone's right just because Allah has forbidden something. Allah has given everyone a free will

And for the sins that affects the other party, can someone rape their wife ? They can, but it is punishable both by the religion and law because it's violating someone else.

Can you have sex with animals. Yes, so many People still do it. But is it correct ? Not at all because animals cannot consent, and sex outside of marriage is haram. And to get married you have to have consent of a person. So can you marry an animal ? Unless an animal starts speaking the language of humans and gives consent, the answer is no.

You are under misconception that ancient people have not practiced the traditional surrogacy. I dont know in what world you are living, but people have had and still practice surrogacy in some way. Husbands do get a second wife to conceive a baby. You are acting like surrogate mothers go through some sort of oppression. If a woman decides to become a surrogate she has done it after thinking it through. In case of surrogacy a baby has two mothers. You are acting like a child is being deprived of mother's love, when the truth is he still has a mother.

[jkhan]

Everything just went above my head. At this point you are asking questions that are plainly illogical. A surrogate baby is going to have a biological father and a biological mother so i have no idea how a baby is going to be deprived of parents. As for the surrogate mother, it depends on the contract form between the parents if she wants to be the part of baby's life or not. There are so many parents who let their children know their surrogate mothers ( if the surrogate mother wants it ). You are bringing your own emotions here. I think we should stop this discussion here. And I agree with brother neptin that Quran was revealed in the context of 7th century when the baby automatically carried the genes of the mother who conceived them.

To answer your question,

Isn't Zina forbidden? So basically how can someone has sex with their boyfriend.
Can one have sex with prostitute ? Yes they definitely can. It's their choice to disobey Allah when he has CLEARLY made zina forbidden.
And to answer all your questions, one can do whatever they want. You cannot take away someone's right just because Allah has forbidden something. Allah has given everyone a free will

And for the sins that affects the other party, can someone rape their wife ? They can, but it is punishable both by the religion and law because it's violating someone else.

Can you have sex with animals. Yes, so many People still do it. But is it correct ? Not at all because animals cannot consent, and sex outside of marriage is haram. And to get married you have to have consent of a person. So can you marry an animal ? Unless an animal starts speaking the language of humans and gives consent, the answer is no.

You are under misconception that ancient people have not practiced the traditional surrogacy. I dont know in what world you are living, but people have had and still practice surrogacy in some way. Husbands do get a second wife to conceive a baby. You are acting like surrogate mothers go through some sort of oppression. If a woman decides to become a surrogate she has done it after thinking it through. In case of surrogacy a baby has two mothers. You are acting like a child is being deprived of mother's love, when the truth is he still has a mother.

I am sorry sanya...
I feel like I am addressing someone like.. It is written in the board "ladies only" but he claims it's my seat coz it is not written on the seat.. So it is for males as well.. That's bizzare.. God has written loads of verses,  find the best for our concerns... Rather than saying literally not Forbidden or literally not allowed...

Now you have come to the exact point... How contradictory your claims now... Sexual pleasure is what those who do zina get... Unless if you forge a different meaning to zina... So if zina God has forbidden why do you support homosex? What they get by having homosex if not sexual pleasure .. So how can they do homosex without marriage.. Anal sex could be the best possible option for homosexual people(males)...
To get sexual pleasure different rules to different people?  How come?

If sex outside marriage is haram as you say,  why homosex is fine and strongly support ,  or do you say God allowed same sex marriage ... Sex outside marriage is not allowed so having sex with animal not allowed but gay and lesbian okay coz they are innocent ... Animal also innocent.  Dude..

I am living in the same period same stationary earth that you live.. Lol.. Ancient people did surrogacy or not they knew well..
But my concern is surrogacy within the norms of Quran..
You say proudly ancient people did surrogacy saying he married another woman.. Marrying another is within the possibility of Quran.. So.. It is not surrogacy.. But genuine marriage.. But QURAN has set limits and conditions when one can marry another woman.. Is not having a child a valid reason to marry another woman while having the first wife.. That's another big subject... Divorce is allowed remember..
I don't care what anceint people did or current people do.  My concern is, is it permissible within the Quran's norms for a believer to practice such and such acts ...

You are skipping my crucial questions.. Either you are prejudiced with you view it neglecting Quranic verses without comparing to conclude.. Or you are turning this into strawman argument..

[Sania Haque]

I am sorry sanya...
I feel like I am addressing someone like.. It is written in the board "ladies only" but he claims it's my seat coz it is not written on the seat.. So it is for males as well.. That's bizzare.. God has written loads of verses,  find the best for our concerns... Rather than saying literally not Forbidden or literally not allowed...

Now you have come to the exact point... How contradictory your claims now... Sexual pleasure is what those who do zina get... Unless if you forge a different meaning to zina... So if zina God has forbidden why do you support homosex? What they get by having homosex if not sexual pleasure .. So how can they do homosex without marriage.. Anal sex could be the best possible option for homosexual people(males)...
To get sexual pleasure different rules to different people?  How come?

If sex outside marriage is haram as you say,  why homosex is fine and strongly support ,  or do you say God allowed same sex marriage ... Sex outside marriage is not allowed so having sex with animal not allowed but gay and lesbian okay coz they are innocent ... Animal also innocent.  Dude..

I am living in the same period same stationary earth that you live.. Lol.. Ancient people did surrogacy or not they knew well..
But my concern is surrogacy within the norms of Quran..
You say proudly ancient people did surrogacy saying he married another woman.. Marrying another is within the possibility of Quran.. So.. It is not surrogacy.. But genuine marriage.. But QURAN has set limits and conditions when one can marry another woman.. Is not having a child a valid reason to marry another woman while having the first wife.. That's another big subject... Divorce is allowed remember..
I don't care what anceint people did or current people do.  My concern is, is it permissible within the Quran's norms for a believer to practice such and such acts ...

You are skipping my crucial questions.. Either you are prejudiced with you view it neglecting Quranic verses without comparing to conclude.. Or you are turning this into strawman argument..

I think I have in my previous post about homosexuality have already mentioned that I believe that God cannot be partial to homosexuals and all the evidences are in support that homosexuality but a very strong and valid argument raised by the opponents of homosexuality-that God didn't establish the marriage between people of same gender- cannot be ignored. I am not in anyway neglecting Quran but you are hellbent on seeing it through your own biased lens. I HAVE NOT SKIPPED ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS since your questions are just senseless. Neither I have started to claim that my point is correct and that hômosexuality is allowed in Islam. I had posed a question because everyone has a different understanding of Quran and I wanted to see with what valid arguments people come up with. I really donot expect a conservative like you to understand that hômosexuality is not all about sex. People donot have tha ability to love the opposite gender in the same romantic way. I really donot like your tone how you invalidate the feelings and experiences of other people when you donot have to go through what they have to. Your own aversions have made you so blind that you cannot see past it. You compared a surrogate mother to unchaste women, you compared hômosexual people to someone who are just after sex. It is your own traditionalist views that cannot accept that not everyone is out for money and sex. You are the one who is lumping up people in one small box Because if you can resist doing XYZ then why can't others. You are being openly homophobic by comparing a relationship between TWO CONSENTING ADULT to bestiality where the animal cannot even consent. You have given no evidences from Quran, just your own opinions how you find surrogacy repulsive by twisting the meaning of clear verses from Quran which has nothing to do with it. In Quran, it has already been seen that a child can have more than one mother through suckling, does that mean a child is being deprived of a mother if he stays with only one mother ? The biological mother has more rights over the kid. I am done with you. I donot want to have any further discussion on this topic with you because it is leading nowhere. Peace

[Sania Haque]

Peace everyone

Sania I am not addressing  here merely you but everyone who wish to read and may ponder and choose what probably God has in fact ordered..

33:04 " ...... Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. And He has not made your wives whom you declare unlawful your mothers, And he has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the

way.

33:05 "Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful"


Above two verses almost everyone would have read.. In them God clearly talks about Adopted child/ren.. He has ALLOWED/Halal adopting a child or NOT is Upto us to decide using the reasons of the verses.. But in literal verses not listed as ALLOWED.. But we deduce it allowed..

Significant point is once we take it is allowed,  then who are these adopted children.. Are they really our own children?  No.. Strong objection from God.. Coz God refuses to call them even by adopted person as father.. If Known who the father is call them by his name and if not just as brothers (not biological but in religion)...  So if another person give birth to a child that can be only theirs... By any means child belongs to another to the extent of parents of child relationships... That further confirms by below verse..

58:02 "they are not [consequently] their mothers. Their mothers are none but those who gave birth to them"
It's common not specific to one group..

Now if one adopted a child in the form of surrogacy... Child deserves legally a father and mother in his her life.. Leave legal aside, child needs from childhood to call someone as his her father and mother..
But parents will definitely 99% will hide his her true birth mother.. Coz it is an agreement.. Once baby is delivered no more connection..
But God keeps claiming Non is one's mother other than the one who gave birth to a child.. How can one separate a birth mother from child... So..
to practice surrogacy many a Quranic instructions need to be violated obviously as under
1... Making adopted son as son or daughter ... Violation of quran.. Such parent will never call the baby adopted..
2.... Taking as mother who didn't give birth literally..
3... Discarding the one who gave birth who is in fact mother according to Quran ...
4... God says treat your parents... Depriving the child from it.. One cannot have two mothers like one cannot have two hearts

And maybe just go take a look at dictionary and see what surrogacy is . It totally feels like you dont even know what you are talking about and what actually surrogacy is.

[Sania Haque]

Peace,
The birth mother and her mother, etc. are considered mothers theirs.
Regardless of the conception method they become inheritors as well.

Quranically woman who gives birth is the mother, surrogate example:

3:47 قالت said (f) رب lord اني whence يكون being لي to me ولد offspring ولم and not يمسسني touched me بشر mortal قال said كذلك like such الله the god يخلق created ما what يشا willed اذا when of قضي decree امرا directive of فانما so solely يقول speaketh له to it كن be فيكون so being

Sanaa, Dār al-maḫṭūṭāt: DAM 01-29.1
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/47?handschrift=173



Likewise, if the father (i.e. donor) is known they are called thus otherwise brethren and friends.

33:4 ما not جعل made الله the god لرجل for man من of قلبين hearts two في in جوفه interior his وما and not جعل made ازوجكم spouses yours الي those (f/p) تظهرون thou declaring منهن of them امهتكم mothers yours وما and not جعل made ادعيكم adopted sons yours ابنكم sons yours ذلكم such yours قولكم speech yours بافوهكم with mouths yours والله and the god يقول speaketh الحق the truth وهو and he يهدي guided السبيل the pathway
33:5 ادعوهم calls ye them لابيهم to fathers theirs هو it اقسط more just عند with الله the god فان so if لم not تعلموا know ye of اباهم fathers theirs فاخونكم so brethren yours في in الدين the creed وموليكم and friends yours وليس and not is عليكم upon you جنح guilt فيما in what اخطاتم err you به in it ولكن and however ما what تعمدت intended قلوبكم hearts yours وكان and be الله the god غفورا forgiver of رحيما merciful of


The same applies with in vitro fertilization mother gives birth, father/donor if known.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterm_birth
Amillia Taylor is also often cited as the most premature baby. She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, U.S. at 21 weeks and 6 days (153 days) gestation. This report has created some confusion as her gestation was measured from the date of conception (through in vitro fertilization) rather than the date of her mothers last menstrual period, making her appear 2 weeks younger than if gestation was calculated by the more common method.

21 weeks + 6 days = 153 days = 5.28 months pregnancy time
Amillia requires 24.72 (25) months (30 – 5.28 (5)) breastfeeding

Thank you. This was really helpful. ❤️

[jkhan]

Hello folks..
Salam

Since this surrogacy has become part and parcel of most rich people and it has become a common thing in major hospitals I would like to dig deep in this topic...

People have children now in this method... Three people are involved anyhow.. Husband wife and another female who volunteered basically the one who carried the baby for 9 or so months... But she won't play any role after birth...

How a such a child would react to Quran verses if in case his or her parents are believers to some extent... It is not natural and not the way of God literally... I am against it with basic Quranic concept.. But as you know such things are not literally banned in Quran with word haram or equal..
Few children in the class of my friend (teacher)  are children who who are actually born with surrogacy...
Your thoughts are welcome  believers...

[jkhan]

In case if this practice of surrogacy is permitted in anyone's assumption then my question is to them is..  The one who gave birth is allowed for him to marry her according to Quranic principles...  Coz nursing mothers other than biological mother are forbidden to marry.. Since scientifically the one who birth to a surrogate child is biologically not his mother... With all these obvious contradictions hiw one would allow his and her sperm or rather fertilized egg into another woman's womb?
Any idea...