GOD s revelation V Men s fabrications. Truth V Falsehood

[jkhan]

The Transmission of Variant Readings of the Qur'an
https://youtu.be/k6v3b9uPT38?si=6nZm563viQUifB3f&t=403

7:00 minute reciters who transmitted the Qur'an
Hafs, Warsh, and others; who is correct, and why?

Here are some examples in today's text.
2:85
تَعْمَلُونَ taʿmalūna | thou working (Hafs)
OR
يَعْمَلُونَ yaʿmalūna | they working (Warsh)


21:4
قَالَ qāla | he said (Hafs) | who said?
OR
قُلْ qul | say (Warsh)

I have brought few verses which are translations of Sahih international, since the topic is about not meaning but mistakes in Quran..
It is very easy to identify with the flow of the verses and the context whether verse states THEY or YOU.. decide yourself..

2:85 Then, you are those [same ones who are] killing one another and evicting a party of your people from their homes, cooperating against them in sin and aggression. And if they come to you as captives, you ransom them, although their eviction was forbidden to you. So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And not Allah aware of what you/they do.

2:86 Those are the ones who have bought the life of this world [in exchange] for the Hereafter, so the punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be aided.

2:144 Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And not Allah aware of what they do.
2:141 That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do.

Read 2:85 to 2:86 and figure out what exactly Allah has spoken like you can figure out 2:141 and 2:144 etc...


The letter 'THA' and the letter 'YA' are just a matter of two dots up or down or missing totally...but the letter will look the same... All you have to do is read verses and get it right..

Same with words QUL or QALA.. anyone can write them just with a little space or almost joined, so it would look either QUL or QALA but look for meaning...
But in 21:14 it is neither QUL nor QALA but it is QALU (They said),,,,, read the verse  "They said, "O woe to us! Indeed, we were wrongdoers." How can this verse would start with QUL and QALA while it states 'woe to US' and it further states 'WE were wrongdoers'

same with 21:4 He said, "My Lord knows whatever is said throughout the heaven and earth, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."

So how can this verse be QALA instead of QUL... because it is stated 'MY Lord knows' even though it seems like the messenger is speaking on his own but in the literal sense the verse is from Allah and asking to SAY / QUL 'MY LORD KNOWS'.. get things right with logic..

Just read the Quran which is in your hand and look for the Guidance of Allah and there will be nothing between you and the guidance of Allah.. No point in wasting time on which Quran to choose and it is better to look for guidance from Allah with the Quran you have.. Not advice to you specifically but for all including me..

thank you

[Bajram Hoxhaj]

It is very easy to identify with the flow of the verses and the context whether verse states THEY or YOU.. decide yourself..

2:85 ... And not Allah aware of what you/they do.

2:86 Those are the ones ...

Yes Hafs clear error as already stated per context.

same with 21:4 He said, "My Lord knows whatever is said throughout the heaven and earth, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."

So how can this verse be QALA instead of QUL... because it is stated 'MY Lord knows' even though it seems like the messenger is speaking on his own but in the literal sense the verse is from Allah and asking to SAY / QUL 'MY LORD KNOWS'.. get things right with logic..

Hafs error cannot be "he said" in context unstated who "he" is.

Qāla Rabbī pertains to a dialogue only single occurrence:
26:188 he said "lord mine knows in what thou working"

Clearly not قَالُوا رَبَّنَا Qālū Rabbanā as 23:106 38:61 40:11 "said they lord ours"

Hence, 21:4 قُلْ رَبِّي Qul Rabbī "say lord mine" as in 18:22 28:85
Old manuscripts Qul and Qāla are spelled the same قل need to use context.
Universitätsbibliothek Tübingen Ma VI 165 (2nd line from top 2nd word)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/manuscripts/107/page/20r?sura=21&verse=4

[jkhan]

Yes Hafs clear error as already stated per context.

Hafs error cannot be "he said" in context unstated who "he" is.

Qāla Rabbī pertains to a dialogue only single occurrence:
26:188 he said "lord mine knows in what thou working"

Clearly not قَالُوا رَبَّنَا Qālū Rabbanā as 23:106 38:61 40:11 "said they lord ours"

Hence, 21:4 قُلْ رَبِّي Qul Rabbī "say lord mine" as in 18:22 28:85
Old manuscripts Qul and Qāla are spelled the same قل need to use context.
Universitätsbibliothek Tübingen Ma VI 165 (2nd line from top 2nd word)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/manuscripts/107/page/20r?sura=21&verse=4

Don't look for Hafs or Warsh, but look for Allah's verses and grasp the meaning ..  of course while we do so, either Hafs or Warsh may go in line with it.. it is not an issue.. We accept the Quran, not Hafs or Warsh version is right ... they are right or wrong as they have written is not our concern..

[good logic]

Peae Bajram Hoxhaj.

So are you not making an assumption here about me?Quote:

"You harp on hadith and too proud to admit you don't know?
2:85 تَعْمَلُونَ (taʿmalūna, thou? working in Hafs) 2:86 those the ones...

Brother, if you know why don t you correct the mistakes and evidence your work and there will be no issue about the ones who do not know like myself?

 If you have a problem with Interlock and the mathematical composition,then find another way to sort out the problem of all the issues of all these variations and come up with the right version with evidence.
Remember ,with your method, until you find the copy of the prophet to compare with, you are stuck.

If you say I have issues with Hafs with correction by the composition, ,then you have issues with all of them, or don t you believe in any?
May be you do not see the irony.
Or you stay with yours and I stay with mine. Then following the message of Qoran by doing will sort us out not by saying..
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Bajram Hoxhaj]

Don't look for Hafs or Warsh

OK

There are hundreds of errors that contradict the logical context in Warsh and Hafs, which also contradict older manuscripts.

If you have a problem with Interlock and the mathematical composition

What does 'interlock,' whatever that means, have to do with the topic? I asked you simple questions about why you use Hafs, which has numerous errors that you consistently avoid answering, just like others on this site who spam the forum with rants, avoid answering, divert, or run away, similar to missionaries, followers of baseless hearsay, numerologists, and others.

Why not answer the two questions as jkhan did? Then we can move on to countless other errors.

Salaam

[good logic]

Peace Bajram Hoxhaj.

I have answered you. I do not have any issue with the Hafs I follow like you claim.

The version of Hafs , the most commonly used and widespread transmission was proven by the mathematical composition of the Quran to be the version that meets all the criteria built in the Quran's mathematical structure as God promised in 15:9, 85:21-22 and 74:30-31.
 This includes the Rasm, (Orthography) of the Quran as well as the numbering, naming and division of the suras and verses.
 For me, I am happy to use this version and I do not see a problem like you do .
Rashad s version is also similar here:
https://submission.org/QI
 Of course there are few things I may not agree with in  his translation ,but the Arabic version fits.

I also have no issue with those who use any version if they use Qoran Alone and follow GOD s message in their life, as the errors/variations do not impact on the message nor the guidance which is up to GOD Alone and does not depend on versions. It depends on the sincerity of the individual.
Hope that answers your query.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[good logic]

Peace All.

I want to clarify a very important point for all of us to note regarding GOD s granted freedom to every human:

10:99: Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?

This is very much relevant here ,because there will always be differences and this fact should teach us to respect that every human have the right to their chosen freedom.

 Since on the personal level we are free to accept our own choices and make our own decisions, then no one should force anyone to believe or otherwise. As long as this person is keeping it for him/herself, is peaceful and does not corrupt the community and fight God's laws, he/she can keep such freedom.

In reality,because of this freedom,there exist countless of versions of any scripture according to the interpretations/understanding /...of the individual.
When I am discussing here , I am aware of this point and do not mind all views, I accept that is normal.

At the time of the prophet ,even as only few verses came down, the division started. It is naive of us to discount all possibilities of different interpretations and sides /clans  that led to sects and division after that up to our time. The three categories of believers, hypocrites/manipulators/pretenders and disbelievers existed from day 1.
It is irrelevant how many variations or which is the right one. GOD s test requires a criteria and those choosing GOD and submission will be guided towards the truth eventually.

However,if we are believers, Qoran has taught me that We can easily be divided if we advocate other than GOD's laws in the name of freedom, the false freedom, and we can ONLY be united if we advocate God's laws and stand for it even when there is only minority to do so.
 We have to side with GOD all the time or we would be siding with the opposition/ Satan.
It is not Qoran alone that unites ,it is GOD Alone that unites or otherwise. with it.
You shall hold fast to the rope of GOD, all of you, and do not be divided.
The advocators of righteousness and forbidders of evil, and the keepers of GOD's laws. Give good news to such believers.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Peace All.

I want to clarify a very important point for all of us to note regarding GOD s granted freedom to every human:

10:99: Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?

This is very much relevant here ,because there will always be differences and this fact should teach us to respect that every human have the right to their chosen freedom.

 Since on the personal level we are free to accept our own choices and make our own decisions, then no one should force anyone to believe or otherwise. As long as this person is keeping it for him/herself, is peaceful and does not corrupt the community and fight God's laws, he/she can keep such freedom.

In reality,because of this freedom,there exist countless of versions of any scripture according to the interpretations/understanding /...of the individual.
When I am discussing here , I am aware of this point and do not mind all views, I accept that is normal.

At the time of the prophet ,even as only few verses came down, the division started. It is naive of us to discount all possibilities of different interpretations and sides /clans  that led to sects and division after that up to our time. The three categories of believers, hypocrites/manipulators/pretenders and disbelievers existed from day 1.
It is irrelevant how many variations or which is the right one. GOD s test requires a criteria and those choosing GOD and submission will be guided towards the truth eventually.

However,if we are believers, Qoran has taught me that We can easily be divided if we advocate other than GOD's laws in the name of freedom, the false freedom, and we can ONLY be united if we advocate God's laws and stand for it even when there is only minority to do so.
 We have to side with GOD all the time or we would be siding with the opposition/ Satan.
It is not Qoran alone that unites ,it is GOD Alone that unites or otherwise. with it.
You shall hold fast to the rope of GOD, all of you, and do not be divided.
The advocators of righteousness and forbidders of evil, and the keepers of GOD's laws. Give good news to such believers.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Let me add to your beautiful message something else from my end since we all herald the Message of Allah..

10:32 "For that is the Deity, your Lord of the Truth. And what can be after the TRUTH except the FALSEHOOD? So how are you turning away?"

In a nutshell, there is neither compromise nor difference of opinions is acceptable when it comes to the TRUTH of our Lord.. Following the Quran doesn't mean literally that everyone follows the right path which is written in it.. Guidance of Allah is the guidance and the truth and Allah knows who is guided aright. But there could be intention of a person is to follow the Quran so Allah may guide him or her to His Truth and guidance within His book if he or she has taken the wrong option from the Quran....

When we realize the true guidance of Allah from the Quran, just simply surrender to it..

Yes.. keep heralding the message of Allah and take it as our duty and be firm with what you state and from there, your or our job is over and there is no compelling.. But never compromise with falsehood over the truth if you realize that it is falsehood even though they keep reiterating that it is difference of opinion. At the same time always surrender to the truth if you realize that you were in falsehood.

Allah knows what is in our hearts i.e. in our thoughts.. so keep moving on...

as the above verse clearly portrays, TURNING AWAY is the result of following the FALSEHOOD since the TRUTH is not equal to FALSEHOOD... So, my fellow believers, don't TURN AWAY from the TRUTH and embrace to the falsehood..

Peace ...

[Bajram Hoxhaj]

Peace Bajram Hoxhaj.

I have answered you.

Salaam

No, you refuse to answer simple questions, e.g., who said in 21:4? You are brainwashed and biased, locking in initial false beliefs and locking out the truth. That's how bad ideologies spread. 'What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.' — Mark Twain

[good logic]

Peace Bajram Hoxhaj.
There can only be one answer according to the context that the verse before 21:3 gives us :

Their minds are heedless. And the transgressors confer secretly: "Is he not just a human being like you? Would you accept the magic that is presented to you?"*
لاهِيَةً قُلوبُهُم وَأَسَرُّوا النَّجوَى الَّذينَ ظَلَموا هَل هٰذا إِلّا بَشَرٌ مِثلُكُم أَفَتَأتونَ السِّحرَ وَأَنتُم تُبصِرون

 21:4: The messenger said, the human messenger:قالَ رَبّى يَعلَمُ القَولَ فِى السَّماءِ وَالأَرضِ وَهُوَ السَّميعُ العَليمُ

Then the transgressors responded by saying ...in 21:5:بَل قالوا أَضغٰثُ أَحلٰمٍ بَلِ افتَرىٰهُ بَل هُوَ شاعِرٌ فَليَأتِنا بِـٔايَةٍ كَما أُرسِلَ الأَوَّلونَ
Like I said I do not see any issue.
GOD bless you.
Peace.