Messages

Peace...

Zikr is normally translated as MENTION / REMIND / REMEMBER / MESSAGE etc..

I am not here to invalidate them.. But for example word REMEMBER  has many a meaning to cover.. So, I feel CONSIDERATION  would suit ie  'to give a careful thought to something / Thoughtfulness' would befit...

Anyway, I am not in full agreement to the translation of MESSAGE... Rather I would go with CONSIDERATION..

For example..

5:4 "..... .... So eat of what they catch for you, and consider attribution of Allah on it,  and be concious of Allah......  ..."

Thank you brother Fusion..

It seems if I got you correctly that you assume that it is possible to interpret dreams be it one's own dreams or others if one reflects deeply in it. Well!  In my comprehension dreams are from Allah in case you are stuck with any of such dreams and accompany much weight to it but on the other hand, dreams are of various nature and it can be formed by the self while sleeping and you might have experienced as humanbeing such dreams in sort of half sleep..  It's kind of the self urges and self manifest such vision on his own.. That's what I understood as far as my experiences are concerned and I have no idea how far that could be technically right.. But dreams with intent shown by Allah has a purpose which are to be disclosed..

But brother Fusion... I am afraid it is not as you think so simple. Interpretation to such dreams which has meaning in the future cannot be performed by ordinary person like me or you. It's a mercy of Allah and it should have been gifted by Allah to interpret dreams precisely so that it would happen exactly as one deciphered it since such dreams are indeed metaphors and should be brought to light.. Guesswork is not truth in anything.. If one decipher a dream and if it happens 100% correctly, subsequently it is a kind of prediction of future and none can predict any future event which are unknown to anyone unless Allah taught such people.. ..
So my question still remains.. Who we can approach to get our dreams interpreted.. Better be silent I guess cuz as far as I think only selected prophets are given such ability to decipher.. But dreams keep appearing to all.. But definitely can be interpreted if one day it becomes true even the dream saw was metaphorical in nature.. Until it happens it would only be mystry or just guesswork..

The other point you raised pertaining to Ibrahim and his vision.. I think we discussed thoroughly in one of brother Waqas's topics..
But in my understanding,  no dream is literal but metaphors.  Whatever dreams interpreted by Yousuf was metaphorical..  Four dreams were interpreted by Yousuf while one being his own.. For all these dreams to come true from metaphorical nature to literal sense,  it took lots of time... So time also matters in my understanding.. But in Ibrahim's case only, Ibrahim's dream Ibrahim took directly..  Whatever he saw, he wanted to accomplish in the same manner and I don't see a time application here too by ibrshim.. No metaphor is involved in Ibrahim's decision as well.. And the most significant and indispensable fact when it comes to dream is,  let the dream come true from the metaphore nature to reality and the one who saw the dream doesn't push at all in order the dream to come true, in contrast, dream comes true on its own God willing and not chasing after the dream and compel it to come true like what Ibrahim forced himself... And that's where Satan can mingle and Satan has no any power to show us a vision.. Not at all.. The entry point of Satan to Ibrahim's dream is satan duped Ibrahim and gradually made him believe that it was a direct command while dream had a metaphor meaning which Ibrahim failed to grasp and ultimately would have realized the meaning of his dream with time .
In my understanding,  since Ibrahim's life is terminsted and his certain life story is elucidared in Quran,  the dream which Ibrahim saw indeed came true..  If the child was indeed Ismail then with the Monotheistic Journey and its Bayt / Charter Ismail was heavily involved sacrifucing a lot along with Ibrahim and so much of responsibility was under the shoulder of Ismail being Ibrahim's son.. It's a huge sacrifice as a son towards the formation of Deen and its inception and calling people towards the Charter and then the debate / Haj is involved thus complete dedication of Ibrahim's son's life in Allah's service from the foundation level of Deen to pragmatic level.. . This could be envisaged by Allah in a metaphorical manner to Ibrahim but he took it literally unfortunately... Note that's my own assumption only.. And assumptions are not equal to truth at all. Or else the true meaning of the dream which Ibrahim saw could be entirely different.. Allah knows best..

I am not that certain that I have chosen the right topic to raise the below question.. Anyway let it be..

Everyone sees dream in  their sleep and some stick with memory.. But my concern is why dreams needs to be interpreted since dreams are not direct message literally.. For instance.. The dream of the King of Yousuf period.. He saw the dream in  metaphoric manner and he was not aware what it was to  be exact.. But he knew it was something and it matters.. That's why he wanted to have an explanation to it..
So.. It clearly indicates that such dreams are from Allah not as a command but as a favour or warning etc..
So.. Since the dream was precisely interpreted by Yousuf the entire society under the King was saved from a disaster which could have fallen on them.. But that drought was inevitable it seems but not as curse but natural requirement to that area perhaps.. Whatever..it's not the point here.. But point is why (since that dream is from Allah)  such dreams are metaphoric leaving a person in curiosity letting him or her to think that it has a meaning behind it.. Why Allah not show such dreams in literal manner so that people could immediately take preventive action.. Yes.. I am wrong here cuz that's not the nature of Allah.. So dreams always go like metaphoric style.. But, in case we see any dream of that nature which has concealed warning or favour then how we could possibly perceive it or get interpreted while we are left with zero person whome we can depend on or  trust that he has the gifted knowledge to interpret them
.. Or we should leave the Dream neglected.. I have seen many dreams but almost forgotton all of them save one Dream standing and it is so inquisitive in my search.. But unfortunately not able to get convinced what it is unless if the Dream comes true and I can realize this could be it.. But until then it is mystry..
So.. Are dreams really worth exploring...

[AL]

It is not Islam it's AL-Islam, that is the title or name of the Deen 3:19, 3:85, 5:3, 6:125, 39:22 that was brought by Muhammad to his people.

Names are not translated.

Only AL-ISLAM is used in the Quran, not islam.

AL-ISLAM did not exist prior to Muhammad. No prophet or messenger is being quoted as bringing AL-ISLAM.

MUSLIM is used both as a name of a group of people and as a description. You need an understanding of Arabic to see the differences in the Quran.

People who followed their prophet or messenger were called Muslims and Mumins. Again, both are used as names and also descriptions and you have to understand Arabic to know the difference.

But none are said to be following AL-ISLAM before Muhammad.

Both AL-ISLAM and AL-QURAN came for Muhammad and his people in their language.

The conundrum here is non other but mentality of being an Arab and the Quran being in Arabic, some Arabs ever boasting.

Just because of the reason the definite article AL is placed in front of a word, won't give you the comfort and freedom of calling it as it is without TRANSLATING to another language.. Yes.. Arabs can call AlIslam as their Direction /Deen.. What else they would call? On the contrary, when the Quran / The recitation is translated nothing should be left untranslated unless it is names of a person or place etc.. Every other word should be translated in order for the reader to comprehend in his translated language leaving no confusion .

For instance, AL-FURQAN 2:185 AL-KITAB etc joined with AL and they don't remain as AL-FURQAN for readers in other languages..

Having elucidared that,  I  also refering Al-Islam only which perfectly gives the meaning of The System and not emphasising the other meaning of Islam which is submission /surrendering...

The System / AL islam is not initiated with mohamed and Allah's System for people to follow never changed from Ibrahim . They all followed The System instituted by Allah and it is called in Arabic language AlIslam and it would have been called in other ways by respective prophets' languages?  Why would they call AlIslam while their language is not Arabic?  Even words like Allah or Arrahman,  if the language is different then the wording also different though meaning is same.. Would anyone on this earth call ALLAH OR AARAHMAN or ARRAHEEM except ARABS? but would that mean no previous Messengers ever called ALLAH OR ARRAHMAN OR ARRAHEEM in their language?  What did Sulaiman write at the beginning of his letter?  What did Maryam call Ar'Rahman?  What did Nuh say when embarking in the ship stating in the name of God?  Were all these arabic?

If Allah's  System is same from Ibrahim specifically then why would AlIslam should begin from Mohamed?  What was the Deen/Direction of previous messengers then called ?
Al Islam is just an Arabic word to refer The System..
Muslim is not the one who FOLLOW completely the AL ISLAM / THE SYSTEM.. But Muslim / Submitter has just accepted Allah / The God  in his life without associating others with Him.. Al Islam has nothing to do with just who became a submitter /Muslim.. But indeed AL Islam The System is the Deen / Direction that Muslim has to follow if he wants to be a true Mumin..

Yaqub said to his children in the death bed,  never die except a Muslim / Submitter or Surrerndered person to Allah and they all had The System.. without THE SYSTEM what the heck was revealed in previous Scriptures?  Fancy fairy tales? No sense?

Al Islam / The sound Law OR the System as Deen / Direction is complete 5:3

Arabs pls never change.. Your Deen is AL Islam detailed in Quran.. But know what AlIslam is  because Allah won't accept other than than the Al Islam as Deen.. Ensure what deen you adhere in life.. That's all..

So, who bears the responsibility of spreading this true message after Muhammad?

Keep it simple bruh... Don't bother about Allahs plan... Mohamed as the messenger of Quran didn't SPREAD the message but he delivered the message withouy fail to his community and whoever it reached through Haj... Once the message is revealed and completed,  be it Tora or Injeel or Quran it whatever, SPREADING is not accountable by an individual but Allah takes the responsibility to GUIDE and EXPLAIN Hid revelations..those who look for it would find what they were looking for...
Even while Mohamed was revealing the Quran, only those who were interested would have got updated and not those who didn't care of revelations..
Message already do exist let people find a way if they look for truth of his life and it's purpose, and for the rest it will remain unknown and never opened book cuz they either satisfied with what they know of orthey not at all interested to know any truth since their priority is confined to worldly life as if it is the ultimate life..

So.. Just relax.. Allahs message is not hidden where no one is reachable.  Just look after yourself and seek guidance and herald what you know of the Book...
Thank you

Note..meanwhile..i am reading the book what you shared.. Mind-blowing.. I shared to many people.. Thank you for that book... I suggest everyone read taking your time.. So simple approach and mostly honest and mostly Righy in my perspective... May Allah bless this great man wherever he is..

[DO YOU FOLLOW ISLAM DEEN or other & What Islam have we embraced in our life?]

Chapter 3 Verse 85 is indeed a very strong verse, and if I understand what Jkhan is implying is the consistent message of Islam as delivered through all prophets. The surrounding verses highlights a covenant made with these prophets, including the last, Muhammad, to uphold and propagate this unified divine message. This divine system (Deen) is portrayed as the only acceptable path, and deviation from it leads to loss. If I get it right, Jkhan underscores the idea that Islam is not just a set of beliefs but a comprehensive system for living, as ordained by Allah and to be followed universally across all of creation, and warns against deviating from it.

Good Logic essentially confirms and supportive with the original content of this thread and offers a stringent critique of non-Quranic sources of Islamic law and teachings (such as Hadiths or traditional Islamists do) and sees any addition to the Quran as potentially problematic and an unwarranted human interference in the divine law.

In my view what is ask here by Jkhan:

DO YOU FOLLOW ISLAM DEEN or other & What Islam have we embraced in  our life?

But I have some questions for both of you.


I appreciate the detailed and focused interpretation of Islam you both present, emphasizing a strict adherence to the Quran as the sole source of divine guidance. However, I am concerned about the implications of such an interpretation for the vast majority of the world's population. According to your discussions, it seems that nearly 99% of people might not meet the criteria you define for true adherence to Islam as described in Quranic verse 3:85. If we consider that each human generation spans roughly 100 years, the figure representing those who do not meet these criteria becomes staggeringly large. Observing religious practices(rituals) in populous nations like India and China, it seems that most individuals do not fit the strict interpretation of Islam you outline. This raises profound questions about the nature of divine mercy.

Given the Quranic depictions of hell—such as in verse 50:30, which questions hell about being filled, and it responds, seeking more, and the description of hell's vastness with seven gates in verse 15:44—contrasted with the descriptions of an expansive paradise in verse 3:133, prepared for the righteous, the scripture seems to offer a nuanced view of afterlife that balances divine justice with profound mercy. My concern is how this balance is reflected in your interpretations?.
Does a strict adherence to your Quran-centric view inadvertently portray a less merciful, more punitive God than the scripture might suggest?

Furthermore, what happens to those countless individuals who, across centuries, may have practiced Islam with sincerity but perhaps focused more on traditional rituals rather than a 100% pure Quranic understanding? They may not have grasped the essence of the teachings as you describe but nonetheless lived morally upright lives. Considering the Quran's emphasis on God's omniscience and mercy, could there be room in your interpretations for the possibility that God judges individuals based on the purity of their intentions and the context of their lives, rather than their strict adherence to practices as you define them?How do we reconcile the potential for vast numbers of people being deemed "LOSERS"!!. with the Quranic portrayal of a merciful and forgiving God?

This question is crucial not just for understanding theological positions but for addressing how these interpretations affect the broader perception of Islam in a diverse and complex world, where billions live in various states of religious practice and belief.

Peace...
GL and Fusion and the rest..

@Fusion..
Long reply be patient...
First and foremost I never said RELIGION..  the word RELIGION is such a misleading word since this world is full of ritualistic religions to which people are devoted or at least calling themselves as his religion.. It's an identity..  Being an atheist too is a religion in which he discard all the religions save his own path/religion... So if they had an identiy in the name of religion and then be accountable for it.. Isn't it fair?

Significant point is...

Why they chose and why they preferred a RELIGION which they inherited through their ancestors or on their own willingness ?  They are accountable for their CHOICE... human is not stupid at all like you sympathied in your above thread.. .. They choose even a simple of things to their lives by reflecting a lot..  Don't they.. Even complicated matters also they give considerable thought... But unfortunately,  they ever ready to go in the footsteps of their forefathers when it comes to religions just to have an identity which they cherish ... Guidance of Allah is not a lottery...  The one who is interested and seeking will be granted but the problem is they are happy with what they have and not like Ibrahim who wanted truth and ascertain who his Lord is... Such truth hunters are in China or Brazil or Japan or India or Africa or America or Europe and you don't know them.. They not rely on their ancestors but they go beyond it and look for truth...  Even how much parents taught about their ancestral religions to one, if he is seeking truth beyond it,  Allah opens His mercy... Those who deserve will get it..
Meanwhile,  just cuz one lived with living Messengers doesn't mean they followed the path of Allah.. They were the worst and almost all nations were destroyed with the wrath and anger of Allah.. Even one happened to live under one roof of a prophet, guidance won't reach unless that person is interested to seek truth of his life though he knows the system / Islam thoroughly .. Needless to bring examples.. But still take a look at the son of Nuh or father of Ibrahim...  They were not interested in the system and they like their own path... So Messengers' presence is nothing unless people have an urge to seek guidance by practicing system.. ...

Let's concur the fact that before Prophet Muhammad every major nations had at least  one Warner a messenger and that's the clear statement of Allah.. And that same Warner / Messnsger will be  WITNESS to their respective Nation in the hereafter.. So don't delve that topic.. We are not historians and we don't know history and it's absolute truth .. Keeping that in mind as truth since Allah stated,  let's move on..
Now,  your issue perhaps after Mohamed.. It means after Mohamed, in this entire world there is no messenger/prophet and the population is innumerable and reaching the Quran and its true essence is hardly impossible for all these Chinese and Indians etc.. That's your concern If I got you right...
You are wrong brother... Guidance of Allah is not locked for anyone who seeks.. Never.. First ask those Chinese whether they are interested in truth or they are seeking truth... Nope.. The one who is interested to seek truth even he is born in remote village of china knowing nothing of Allah's revelation would have reached towards Allah's guidance... Nothing is a barrier between Allah and the one who call Allah for guidance.. Problem is people don't call..

Similarly.. Ask entire Arab nations... Are they willing to seek guidance through QURAN though it's available in their own language and the book is everywhere... Nope.. No difference to the One in China or India or Japan, these Arab nations.. Cuz they all happy and satisfied with their own respective religion and nothing they will keep above their religion what they practice and their ancestors did  .. Allah guides who seek.. Keep that in mind... If I give you a simple analogy 'The one who trying to earn money and working hard to earn it would find one day a way hopefully to earn it and not the one who never want to earn it'...  Same logic.. Mercy of Allah is there but you initiate it and trigger .. Why would Allah push you while he has given us a Brain and heart and vision and hearing and a toung and all signs in nature.. Let people approach in order Allah to show them truth.. Who is in need?  Allah or We? But they all preferred falsehood which they inherited ... And never bothered beyond it save very few people..

So in modern days, no need another Messenger with revelations.. All complete.. For example,  is there any civilized society  who doesn't know of Mobile phones... Nope.. Same way.. Everyone knows  there is a book called Quran.. But who will explore it unless who is interested...everyone is interested in smart phones but not their life's truth.. What is this 'interest for truth' means in a person?  It means he doesn't know truth and not happy with what ancestors legacy.. Such people will find their way cuz they are thirsty for truth... If a person not at all interested in his Creator and His truth why would Allah make him a way... He is only interested in his life.. He enjoys the mercy of Allah in every aspects but consider it natural...  If one gets sick how many places he goes to find a way to cure his illness.. Cuz he is in need.. But human not in need of his Lord and totally forgotton... He is not like that sick person.. Had he been to find truth like he found medicines to his illness reaching all possible grounds,  he would have found truth.. But he never gave any weight to it.. He gave all the weight to his life and indulgence.. So Allah's door is closed..
So don't feel pity for a people who has forgotten his Lord,  and if you really feel pity just herald the message of God.  And be silent.. No one accepts save who seek truth... Having an ancestral religion doesn't mean people are guided  ... Allah is fair  .. Let everyone seek his path... Anyone who steps in on that voyage,  Allah opens him His mercy and guides him. .. Let every human find connection to His Lord.. Then the Islam / the System of Allah is not far for him or her wherever he lives in this Earth  . Allah can reach to his Ibadi when he calls for guidance  ... Would Allah neglect a call from China or Brazil or Africa?  No.. Problem is majority not call Him for help.. And you wrongly assumed that these Arabs calling Him for help  ... Nope Only believers wherever they are calling Allah for help.  Rest of human committing association /shirk to Allah and happy with their own religions even the base of their religion is Allah Himself ..  Even Chinese call a God or Indians call Baghwan or Arabs call Allah. Nothing is worthy if they not call Him alone in their life.. For that they have to find true path and being from their own religion calling Allah or Baghwan or Shiva or whatwver people call to their Creator won't find any worth in Him.. It's just a desperate call and nothing else. Cuz their PATH is not the one they call. 

Another important point I want to emphasize here. . There are / were believers even without reading a single verse of Quran on this earth... Allah can guide directly.. Remember Quran is just a book to enhance and convince one's  faith...  But there are people who never ever approached it.. But they never disbelieved in their Creator.. They always had the faith of their Creator.. They never equaled anyone with Him.. They never followed any human inventions with any intent ... But they always lived with what is right which is naturally inbuilt and they used Allah gifted knowledge to perceive .. There is nothing that is beyond a civilized society could accept and practice in the system / AL Islam. . Most of what Islam enjoins is within the law of many a civilized law. But in the past,  in ancient time most of the communities practiced not only pagan rituals but away from civilized SYSTEM which is cruel ... For example burying girls alive...
ISLAM as a systematic Law is so simple. For example Islam as law ordains people to do charity or look after parents or orders not to marry such and such people or not to drink blood or eat dead animals or not to kill an innocent, lots of law etc etc and all these are so natural in civilized societies. And anything against it,  then civilized societies always raise voice regardless of their respective faith. Islam is inbuilt too but people of the past chosen very coerse path so Allah rejuvanated them with what is right.. All in all Islam is practiced 95 % by world's population but unfortunately those 95% itself not accept their Creator and they associate to Him.. Same as Allah says all SJD and ASLAM but unwillingly most.. So ISLAM is just a DIRECTION of Allah to implement and NOT guidance of Allah... That's why eventhough most on Earth follow Islam/System still not GUIDED.. Islam is just to have a civilized society away from a horrendous uncivilized and optimistic rituals ...

Try to grasp what is Islam within Quran.. As I said earlier entire Quran is not Islam.. Islam is law specified in a nutshell to have a better society. There are lot beyond Islam in Quran by which people can get sheer guidance and enhance their faith and get convinced of the hereafter...

Keep reflecting...  Allah never leave a true seeker in astray..

[And whoever seeks other than the System / Islam a Direction / Deen- never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."]

Peace..

What is ISLAM in Quran?  Well.. In my comprehensive understanding of Quran,  ISLAM means a SYSTEM / MECHANISM as DEEN / DIRECTION to adhere those who call themselves believers in their Creator... Yes. You may differ but it won't make any difference  unless it is truth in others researches.. Truth spoken by anyone is truth and falsehood spoken by anyone remains falsehood.. Individuals are to comprehend it.. Accountable..

Having said that,  what I want to present here is about ISLAM not about the meaning of SURRENDERING or SUBMISSION but aforesaid meaning I clarified, ie  SYSTEM...

Significant point I want to raise here is WHY HISTORICALLY it is accepted that ISLAM BEGAN with Quran or rather with advent of Mohamed?  Is that really true? Or is it fabricated in  the name of Quran and Mohamed by some who came well after Mohamed and Quran since they didn't find a ritualistic religion to their own taste... ISLAM (monotheistic SYSTEM) as a DEEN /DIRECTION was ordained from the time of prophet Ibrahim and all the messengers and prophets came after were given the same ISLAM /SYSTEM and that is well documented proof within Quran...
If so,  let's find some logical answers to below potential concerns..

1... Why Arabs alone claim ISLAM as their Religion.. Yes.. After invasions, non-Arabs accepted that so called ISLAM.. But Arabs are the originator of the religion called 'Islam'...

2... Did Muhamed claim that Islam was his religion and different to all prophets and messengers came before to form a separate religion ?

3... Why so called ISLAM spread through Arabs only if most of the people of the book (Torah and Injeel) were indeed MUSLIMS following ISLAM /SYSTEM?

4... Why genuine Hadu and Nasara of the past never claimed that their RELIGION is ISLAM but they always believed in revelation revealed to them in Torah and Injeel and even Quran and they remained Muslims/Submitters to Allah alone thus they followed the SYSYEM /ISLAM but never claimed their RELIGION itself is ISLAM.. Did they?

5.... How come among the people of the book who were truly believers and dominant to that region never spread a RELIGION called ISLAM while they literally did follow the Islam Deen ?... Doesn't that mean there was NO religion from Allah but only a revelation to follow which is systematic and common to all... 

6.... Was there any religion called as ISLAM until these Arabs called themselves?  If No.. Then,  isn't Islam a religion invented basically through the ARABS of that region and has no connection whatsoever to the absolute truth of Quran which Mohamed and his followers complied to..

7.... Rigid and conspicuous point is no one is a Submitter/Muslim unless they accept a RELIGION called ISLAM while according to Quran Islam/System is a Deen / Direction to follow for the success and that SYSTEM prevails above all Directions / Deen exists ..
8... Simple question... What is the religion of people of scripture or even Bani Israel who were truthful believers? 

9.... Without any element of surprise, Islam was invented and made a religion fundentally based on human touch and giving little icing with Quran to keep it alive. Whoever invented this religion had an agenda.  Quran is full of guidance and knowledge and wisdom in which Islam / system also detailed for believers to abide by.. Entire Quran is not Islam but only Systematic Law mentuoned in Quran is Islam..
The Islam that we see for centuries has its own function and entirely contrary to what is written in Quran...  Word Islam proves it.. Take a look at below verse..
3:85 "
And whoever seeks other than the System / Islam a Direction / Deen- never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

A profound and strong verse to reflect...

Above verse, everyone translated "Islam as religion " and word Islam thus became the name of the religion automatically ..

But contrary to that, Allah has constituted the System and completed and presented for believers to take direction from it to practice in life and most significantly NO OTHER Direction / Deen will be accepted other related in the System... Now.. Point to ponder is, ISLAM itself another religion with plethora of fabrications and the Islam has its own identity and following anything other than that is invalidated by this religion...  For example this Islam has five pilars starting from Shahada...  But, carefully note what the verse 3:85 states... "whoever seeks other than Islam Deen WILL NOT be accepted... "

So folks, where is Islam Deen written if not in Quran itself?  Would you want to follow other than Islam Deen which Allah guaranteed will NOT be accepted and unfortunately informed will be LOSERS ?

So,  finally,  ask yourself... 'DO YOU FOLLOW ISLAM DEEN or other ?

After all,  which ISLAM has spread all over the world from some point of time in the past?  Is it Islam that Allah refers in 3:85 or something other than that which Allah refers in same verse? 

Islam is just systematic law to apply in one's life wherever it is necessary but beyond Islam there are many things in Quran to learn since it is full of guidance and wisdom.. So Islam itself cannot be a religion and everything .. Everything in Quran is not Islam.. Try to grasp it... Islam is just one part of believers life cuz it has set of directions to follow..
 

Salam..

Every religion practiced worldwide from ancient time up until now has their own dogma and they all worthless infront of Allah, if they don't follow path of Allah.

3:85 transcend a heavy message to the people who claim we belong to such and such religions. 
"The System / Al Islam as Direction / Deen only will be ACCEPTED " means every other path is waste of effort and time..

No one needs to be in confusion if they follow the Islam which is detailed in Quran's many chapters..  As long as one with immaculate intention converge to God's revelations alone without having to accompany anything away from it, then Guide is non other but Allah....

Isn't 3:85 very manifest in its message that those who follow other than the Islam is LOSERS?  If Allah said so,  could we disregard it or take lightly?

So...  What Islam have we embraced in  our life?  Why not question our selves with serious intent rather than be one of those losers which Allah has warned?

So you also connect these letters placed in Quran with numeric pattern?

Peace Fusion.
I have my solid proof that Qoran- Hafs version without surah 9 verses 128 and 129 for me- is mathematically composed. all its letters/words/ verses/surahs are locked . The master tablet GOD talks about.

The law of preservation has to be tested. If a law is never tested to see if it holds then it might as well not exist.
In that case adding or taking away letters/ words/verses makes no difference since the tempering/change will become evident easily because the mathematical composition will break down.
Any narrative then, becomes irrelevant.
Also for me ,the messenger of the covenant has initiated with authorisation this mathematical composition and the preservation task is also ongoing guided by GOD and His soldiers that are following/guarding Qoran since the beginning.
My take on the Qoran I study and my opinion so far.

Others may disagree, but I am satisfied with my checking and findings so far after my ongoing research.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace...
Numeric symetry is one unique subject neither cannot deny it nor accept all.. That's how I see it..

Basic numeric patterns do exist in Quran unquestionably... So far I don't find anyone who gave a logical answer to why these 29 chapters in Quran had placed mere letters at the very beginning and conspicuous missing of bismillah in chapter 9  ... There must be a reason behind these .. Aren't they?  These letters are not kept for fun or just to misguide or just for no reason. After all they are part of Quran  and what for..

If Allah promises no one can add it delete anything from His Quran then there should be well and truly a mechanism He would have applied so that no one can literally do so.. But everyone can tear the Quran or burn or include any number addition or deletion.. Can't they?  But it is not QURAN.. But what Allah revealed is Quran and nothing else.. Has He really preserved the message, not the one which was written by the messenger...  Needless to preserve a literal book which just one. But the message is important.. Is the same message we are getting..?  Even if the same original book which was written is in any Library now,  it doesn't mean people won't interpret it as they want.. So.. Misinformation is always around.. While  Quran was in the process of revealing people were in the hunt of distorting the verses..

Seek guidance from Allah and He won't misguide true believers..
We are like a community worthless... Prophet is sealed. No more means there is a reason.. It's like sorry folks gate is closed.. No entry.. Who knows mercy of Allah is done save very minute number of people who are still seeking guidance from Him with His books...
Favour is very clear.. A Messwnger living and messages flowing and people are answered in their own language... But we have no one to reach save Allah ...
Seal of prophets has part to play.. Allah knows what He does.. And He knows whether people who comes at cetain point of time are believers or disbelievers... Even Messengers come perhaps no one would believe.  Destiny is written..
Allah knows best.. But try to be those fortunate people still Slah would guide without a direct messenger or a book in our own language...

[And whoever seeks other than the System / Islam a Direction / Deen- never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."]

 Peace..

What is ISLAM in Quran?  Well.. In my comprehensive understanding of Quran,  ISLAM means a SYSTEM / MECHANISM as DEEN / DIRECTION to adhere those who call themselves believers in their Creator... Yes. You may differ but it won't make any difference  unless it is truth in others researches.. Truth spoken by anyone is truth and falsehood spoken by anyone remains falsehood.. Individuals are to comprehend it.. Accountable..

Having said that,  what I want to present here is about ISLAM not about the meaning of SURRENDERING or SUBMISSION but aforesaid meaning I clarified, ie  SYSTEM...

Significant point I want to raise here is WHY HISTORICALLY it is accepted that ISLAM BEGAN with Quran or rather with advent of Mohamed?  Is that really true? Or is it fabricated in  the name of Quran and Mohamed by some who came well after Mohamed and Quran since they didn't find a ritualistic religion to their own taste... ISLAM (monotheistic SYSTEM) as a DEEN /DIRECTION was ordained from the time of prophet Ibrahim and all the messengers and prophets came after were given the same ISLAM /SYSTEM and that is well documented proof within Quran...
If so,  let's find some logical answers to below potential concerns..

1... Why Arabs alone claim ISLAM as their Religion.. Yes.. After invasions, non-Arabs accepted that so called ISLAM.. But Arabs are the originator of the religion called 'Islam'...

2... Did Muhamed claim that Islam was his religion and different to all prophets and messengers came before to form a separate religion ?

3... Why so called ISLAM spread through Arabs only if most of the people of the book (Torah and Injeel) were indeed MUSLIMS following ISLAM /SYSTEM?

4... Why genuine Hadu and Nasara of the past never claimed that their RELIGION is ISLAM but they always believed in revelation revealed to them in Torah and Injeel and even Quran and they remained Muslims/Submitters to Allah alone thus they followed the SYSYEM /ISLAM but never claimed their RELIGION itself is ISLAM.. Did they?

5.... How come among the people of the book who were truly believers and dominant to that region never spread a RELIGION called ISLAM while they literally did follow the Islam Deen ?... Doesn't that mean there was NO religion from Allah but only a revelation to follow which is systematic and common to all... 

6.... Was there any religion called as ISLAM until these Arabs called themselves?  If No.. Then,  isn't Islam a religion invented basically through the ARABS of that region and has no connection whatsoever to the absolute truth of Quran which Mohamed and his followers complied to..

7.... Rigid and conspicuous point is no one is a Submitter/Muslim unless they accept a RELIGION called ISLAM while according to Quran Islam/System is a Deen / Direction to follow for the success and that SYSTEM prevails above all Directions / Deen exists ..
8... Simple question... What is the religion of people of scripture or even Bani Israel who were truthful believers? 

9.... Without any element of surprise, Islam was invented and made a religion fundentally based on human touch and giving little icing with Quran to keep it alive. Whoever invented this religion had an agenda.  Quran is full of guidance and knowledge and wisdom in which Islam / system also detailed for believers to abide by.. Entire Quran is not Islam but only Systematic Law mentuoned in Quran is Islam..
The Islam that we see for centuries has its own function and entirely contrary to what is written in Quran...  Word Islam proves it.. Take a look at below verse..
3:85 "
And whoever seeks other than the System / Islam a Direction / Deen- never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

A profound and strong verse to reflect...

Above verse, everyone translated "Islam as religion " and word Islam thus became the name of the religion automatically ..

But contrary to that, Allah has constituted the System and completed and presented for believers to take direction from it to practice in life and most significantly NO OTHER Direction / Deen will be accepted other related in the System... Now.. Point to ponder is, ISLAM itself another religion with plethora of fabrications and the Islam has its own identity and following anything other than that is invalidated by this religion...  For example this Islam has five pilars starting from Shahada...  But, carefully note what the verse 3:85 states... "whoever seeks other than Islam Deen WILL NOT be accepted... "

So folks, where is Islam Deen written if not in Quran itself?  Would you want to follow other than Islam Deen which Allah guaranteed will NOT be accepted and unfortunately informed will be LOSERS ?

So,  finally,  ask yourself... 'DO YOU FOLLOW ISLAM DEEN or other ?

After all,  which ISLAM has spread all over the world from some point of time in the past?  Is it Islam that Allah refers in 3:85 or something other than that which Allah refers in same verse? 

Islam is just systematic law to apply in one's life wherever it is necessary but beyond Islam there are many things in Quran to learn since it is full of guidance and wisdom.. So Islam itself cannot be a religion and everything .. Everything in Quran is not Islam.. Try to grasp it... Islam is just one part of believers life cuz it has set of directions to follow..