Where is Becca - Conversations with Brother @YnWhq @MeccanThe (Twitter)

[theNabster]

Salam Brothers & Sisters,

Since 2000 I have been struggling to find out where Ka'aba & Becca, the town hosting it is.
I was not ready to accept the obvious, & navigated the several arguments of its geographical position in this forum & others.

Allah in His infinite Mercy has given me the answer which I will post, but it only came to me after lengthy exchanges with a Brother scholar I met on @Twitter, Brother @YnWhq @MeccanThe.

I needed a rationale that answered several questions tying up all the stories present in Torah, Gospel & Qur'an in a coherent narrative that is free of contradictions, discrepancies & unreasonable axiomatics.

I will answer here & then paste the conversations I had with my brother that led me with yaqeen/certainty to the answer thanks to a short Surah of Qur'an that sealed it for me:

Becca is Mecca.

[theNabster]

Bismillahi Arrahmani Arrahim
Salam - this is the conversation that triggered something leading me to doubt my current doubts about Becca not being Mecca - it is very fastidious to build a conversation from my @Twitter exchanges with Brother @TheMeccan @YnWhq, so I will not repeat it exactly as this, you are welcome to get a Twitter account & look him up.

@YnWhq
Chim Rabin the famous Semitic philologist found a "phenomenal" resemblance between biblical Hebrew and the Arabic of Kinanah in western Arabia. But he did not pursue this any further (because of the indoctrination that Hebrew belongs to a far land).

@sunnyimhotep
Amazing discovery. That's what I have included in my book "Egypt Knew no Pharaohs nor Israelites"... Among other many paradigm shifting discoveries concerning correcting the mainstream biblical narrative.

@YnWhq
Mizraim of the OT was a dual state including Ancient Ethiopia and Yemen.
Exodus took place from Eksum  across Bab el Mendeb to the costal plains of Asir in KSA today, where one can identify the volcanic mountain where Moses received the tablets, and where their cows could thrive.

@Samir53193117
Where is Eksum.?

@YnWhq
Eksum is Axum
which was the fertile Tigray region of Ethiopia. To here a Danite group under Jeremiah fled with others at the time of Babylonian invasion of Mecca/original Jerusalem; according to 2 famous Arab historians (Tabari & Masudi) to eatablish the first Ge'ez kingdom.

@meNabster
I'm starting to warm up to your geographical positioning of Children of Israel, maybe Adam was cast out from the Garden to that region in Africa that includes Axum/Eksum, & the exodus was in fact from there to Asir where they established a presence.
also note Jacob =/= Israel.

@YnWhq
According to my research the earthly garden of Eden was in the green mountains of Asir,the 4 rivers are now the valleys of Turba,Ranya,Bisha,& Tathleeth,but then the area was a savannah land after the end of the last ice age.
If you are more comfortable with English > @MeccanThe

@YnWhq
The name of the center of the land was Adamah which corresponds to Eden, but the name was changed to Al Bashayer due to a tribal strife over its identity, so the authorities decided to change the name to "The Good Tidings" marking an end to the conflict.

@meNabster
There's a need for historians & archaeologists to get together & piece down chronology of scriptural events, Kamal Salibi was a start, but there's no follow up to resolve inconsistencies in details of how Torah stories are mapped out to the area below South West Arabia. @inabster

@YnWhq
I did exactly that, because one week before Dr Salibi passed away he entrusted me to continue his work, after having endorsed my research. It was published in Feb 2020, and has been a best seller since. Read the back cover for conclusions.
It is about time we have it translated.

@YnWhq
I am about to publish a first ever review of the Hebrew Bible based on a 28 letter reading.
We received the texts in a 22 letter Aramaic script which is a short hand form written by people who could read it in 28 spoken letters as all Semitic languages, & not as the Masoretes did.

@MeccanThe
I am looking for a literary agent who can identify a publisher interested in translating my book from Arabic and publishing it in English or any foreign language.
I have a resumé in English and French for those interested.

@meNabster
I will use my #Twitter accounts to call for literary agents with an interest in this subject, the forum I am a member of http://free-minds.org has a business section, it is rather dormant but maybe we can stir some interest, there was a member who wrote four essays on this.
I think he knows of your work & maybe used it to write his essays, he goes by moniker "pazuzu", though he is rather entrenched in his views which do not coincide with yours, such as Mecca not being the sanctioned place for pilgrimage, me I have become rather more fluid nowadays.
Until convinced with certainty I too don't accept Mecca as sanctioned place of pilgrimage, Qur'an refers to Becca & Ka'aba not Mecca which only Hadiths sanction, I'm revisiting hadiths looking into Abu Hanifa &  Imam Rabi'3 Ibadhi madhhab, but very slow due to some health issues.

@YnWhq
Review the over 40 names attributed to Mecca by its historians such as Fakihi and Fassi,and you will find the names  you mentioned plus al Bassa(Jebus)...
Urush & Salam
Jerusalem=Mecca
Maccabees=Meccans
Hasmonians= Hashemites 
Edomites=Adnanis
Essenes: Issa disciples
[Pre Jesus]

@meNabster
I prefer to use Qur'an only first, historians come third, archaeology second.

@YnWhq
I don't understand! Kaabah is the house of God, it is the same as the Holiest of Holies, where can it be if not in Mecca?
The land has uninterrupted history and we know this by tradition. It is the sanctified Macoraba (Mecca the sanctified) reported to Ptolemy back in 169 BC.

@meNabster
You feel strongly about this, Qur'an refers first house for worship as Becca, not Mecca, Mecca is only quoted once as a place of strife for Prophet Mohamed & that Allah released him from it.
To me Sana'a might be Becca, or Daru Assalam pinpointed by Salibi in Asir.
Also Ka'aba is referred as a natural structure Abraham is instructed to build over a house for worship over it, it is not the artificial cube Quraysh built.

@MeccanThe
Abraham was shown where to excavate for it. It existed before Noah and was submerged under the muds of the deluge.
It was a flat unroofed structure, but the one who gave it the cubical shape was Solomon. It is no other than the holiest of Holies described in Kings I.

@meNabster
Sana'a great mosque has a cube too. You can only convince me by Qur'an, until I get yaqeen from Allah, I cannot accept the cube built by House of Saud is the Ka'aba Allah refers to in Qur'an.

@MeccanThe
The Ka'bah existed before Islam, read Banquet:73; the sanctified house of Allah is Ka'bah.  The Israelites were ordered to wear it as a phylactery even before the 10 commandments were given to Moses. Also note the 7 anti clockwise leather turns on the arm representing Tawaf.
https://twitter.com/MeccanThe/status/1515602655900577801

@meNabster
Er. I missed that lol!
Islam existed before Mankind as it is the system everything Allah created it is built upon, the two weighted beings Jinn & Mankind were created by Allah to accept Islam as Allah's method & He devised worship for them to follow to show they accepted.
Allah said I only created Mankind & Jinn for the sole purpose to worship Me, Islam is System of worship for Jinn & Mankind to do by choice & for rest of Universe & Heavens including Angels it's by design.
Whosoever who can choose & who try something else, it will not be accepted.

@YnWhq
Mecca is important because of the Sanctified House of God. In my research & rereading the Masoretic texts
النسخ المأثورة in 28 Arabic characters I discovered that all messengers and Holy Books were revealed in Arabia and that Mecca's area was central from Abraham's time.

@YnWhq
The house of Ka'bah's location was revealed to Abraham so he did the excavation & reerected the building submerged under mud from the time of the Deluge. It was the great "Gebeah" where Solomon had the first revelation & he built it into a Ka'bah ie a high rise (not meaning cube).

@meNabster
But the cube they put in Mecca is made up by House of Saud, where is the original? There is a cube also in the main Sana'a mosque, also the issue of Jinn cubes...

@YnWhq
What do you mean?
It has been there in its present form since the days of Muhammad ( pbuh) and before.
What cube in the mosque of Sanaa? I prayed there in the summer of 1986 and there was nothing, and nothing of this sort was told to us. We all prayed normally towards Mecca.

@YnWhq
First time I hear about it! Nobody ever claimed it before, and there is nothing in the literature to support it!
You must have been bluffed by one of their Yemeni adversaries. Honestly no body can proclaim this without losing credibility.
Please verify for your own sake.

@meNabster
My major realignment was in 2005 through http://free-minds.org - there is also this https://twitter.com/meNabster/status/1487586357673402369
As I said I will realign again if Allah Wills, but it has to be by Qur'an only, not by hearsay
@inabster

@YnWhq
It is well documented that the mosque of San'ah was built in the days of the prophet by Wabar ben Yohanness who was instructed to make its Kibla in the direction of ضن mountain،& this is compatible with Mecca direction. Ali was sent as an instructor & left them a copy of Quran.

@YnWhq
As to the copy of Torah this was written in the 16th century by local Jews in Yemeni & not official Arabic. There is nothing old about it. Judaism entered Yemen in the days of the Himyari state ie after AD & reported to Tiberia school in Palestine for instructions.

@YnWhq
As to Sam, the Yemenis can claim they are the center of Earth, but if the Deluge were there water would have immediately drained to the Arabian Gulf!The Deluge formed a temporary lake between Tayef where Noah started & A'rid mountain (Joudi) where his float landed.
Najd= Aram.

@YnWhq
From Riyadh region all of Arabia including Yemen was repopulated. Qatan the son of Ghaber/Aber was the father of most Yemeni tribes,migrated to Yemen. From Najd meaning "plateau"the first Arameans migrated to Mesopotamia and Syria. Arabia was the cradle of Semitism.

@meNabster
Show me incontrovertible forensic evidence for the positioning of Becca mentioned by Allah in Qur'an as Saudi Arabia Mecca & I will accept it, hatu burhanakum inn kuntum sadiqeen @inabster

@meNabster
As-safa wal marwa - I know I think marwa (as place disbursing water? from quenching thirst) but what does safa mean? also min sha3airi Allah, what does sha3airi mean, does it mean symbols/symbolism...also the black stone, did they analyse it? Qur'an does not describe it.

@MeccanThe
Shair means rituals. Safah is the Mispah of OT, as in fact they were meeting near House of God . Black stone is Obsidian stone. In my research it was a piece of the tablets broken by Moses after the Golden calf incident. It is so unique & holy because of the divine imprint.

Background -

@MeccanThe
This book (The Bible Came From Arabia) published in 1985 was an eye-opener! Dr Salibi a well known protestant history professor at AUB revisited the biblical geography and concluded after thorough research that it actually was in Arabia and not Palestine!

@MeccanThe
I met Dr Salibi twice; few weeks before he passed away. On the first occasion I explained to him my theory built on his: if the bible came from Arabia then it must have originated in Arabic! Also that my reading showed that most events took place in Hejaz and not Asir!

@MeccanThe
During our second and last meeting he entrusted me to continue his work, & urged me to publish my own work which he then endorsed in full. One week later in 2011 he left us for good. This TL is an introduction to the first book which I hope will appear sometime this year.

For those who can read Arabic he wrote a book which needs to be translated in English & other languages.
Next post I will divulge the chapter of Qur'an that convinced me that Becca is in fact Mecca, you can also check my tweets where I posit my rationale (very simple really).

[jkhan]

Would you pls summarize bro... It is hard to grasp. 
Just briefly say where is Becca in  modern day ?
And why?

[theNabster]

Would you pls summarize bro... It is hard to grasp. 
Just briefly say where is Becca in  modern day ?
And why?

Incha-a-Allah I will in the next post, if you can't wait here is the thread on @Twitter where I put the Surah that finally convinced me, since 2000 I doubted everything coming from Hadiths so was not sure where Becca was, now I know Becca is in fact Mecca, from Qur'an.

https://twitter.com/meNabster/status/1539725440633511950

Salam wa Rahma.

[theNabster]

Bismillah Arrahman Arrahim

As @MeccanThe @YnWhq has been validated by Kamal Salibi himself to further on his research & correct it if necessary, it sounds a great opportunity for me to get a better picture of how events took place in relation to Allah's deployments of Prophets & Messengers in Arabia  &

An opportunity to get a better picture of how events took place in relation to Allah's deployment of Prophets & Messengers in Arabia & as far south as North East Ethiopia of the Sabaean Kingdoms of Misr there & South West Yemen.

There was a weird outrageous posit by a member of http://free-minds.org that the actual Qur'an (& Mohamed) geographical positioning happened in South East Arabia in Oman & that Mecca was actually there in Oman not Hejaz! user: noshirk - here https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607455.msg367029#msg367029
@inabster

@YnWhq
Waste of time and energy.
I am busy putting the final touches on my new book. It is a new reading of Masoretic texts based on the 28 most common Semitic spoken letters. The texts prove beyond doubt that Arabia was the stage of all biblical events, & Mecca had a central role.

Enough evidence (or lack thereof) that definitely there was no Biblical history of G-d's Prophets & Messengers in Egypt, Moses never set foot in Egypt, Bible geography of Tanakh, Issa son of Mary & predecessors were all in Arabia & Ethiopia (Ethiopia I just now endorsed).

The last bit of the puzzle for me is where was Becca? & I'm starting to strongly lean towards Mecca, which is in fact a main swerve for me, despite many reservations which are slowly dissipating as they're based on my ego not on evidence.

My reservation, a main one, was why would G-d suffer His first shrine & House meant for pilgrimage, to be soiled by idolaters Arabs & others with statues & dancing around it naked?
However, it's rather a Sign of His boundless Mercy that He suffered them besmirching it.

Another Sign for me that Becca is in fact Mecca as Allah refers to the family of the Prophet as ahl-al-beyt, now which could that beyt be but a place where a massive number of pilgrims congregate?

OK time to come clean after a lot of static from subversives deluded by the whispers of Satan -
Mecca is Becca - I have a theological theory why Allah refers to it in Qur'an as Becca & not as its most recent name Mecca - I also invite House of Saud @KingSalman to rename it Becca.

It is most probable that the name Mecca is a derogatory name which I learnt had in some vernacular Arabic the meaning of "destruction" - also the only instance where Allah refers to Mecca is as a place of bother he extirpated His Prophet from. Referring to it as Becca was a Sign.

Referring to it as Becca (the first & only House/beyt of Worship) was a Sign that Allah did not recognise Mecca as its valid name, though he did refer to it as dar-u-assalam, House of Peace, & its surroundings as baladun aminan (a protected place).
It could be that... ./.

It could be that when it was renamed Mecca, already perversions & idolatry had appeared by then, this is my insight & understanding why Allah never refers to Mecca directly as Becca or as dar-u-assalam, may Allah help me to further my knowledge - rabbi zidni 3ilman.

I would therefore from now on refer to Mecca as Becca as it pleases Allah to name it this way.
Becca al-mukarrama, beyt al-3atiq Becca.

And now for the proof by Qur'an, it is important & central to me, & was all along under my nose, but I was not ready to accept it...

As Becca a very important piece of the puzzle to me & I accept it now as being Mecca, a small chapter in Qur'an that I often recite to myself stands out proving indeed Mecca was Becca before it was renamed, it also hosts Al-Beyt (House of Allah), is dar-u-assalam (house of peace).

Qur'an Surah 106.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
1 لِإِيلَـٰفِ قُرَيْشٍ
2 إِۦلَـٰفِهِمْ رِحْلَةَ ٱلشِّتَآءِ وَٱلصَّيْفِ
3 فَلْيَعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّ هَـٰذَا ٱلْبَيْتِ
4 ٱلَّذِىٓ أَطْعَمَهُم مِّن جُوعٍۢ وَءَامَنَهُم مِّنْ خَوْفٍۭ

Qur'an Chapter/Surah 106
https://quran.com/en/106
infers Quraysh host Al-Beyt, as Allah refers to Al-Beyt in verse 3 as being a place they witness in their midst, and that clearly proves Mecca is Becca because Quraysh's town was Mecca & the verse says Allah's Al-Beyt is in it.

Yusuf Ali
106 Bismillah Arrahman Arrahim
1. For the covenants (of security & safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish,
2. Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer,
3. Let them adore the Lord of this House,
4. Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger).
https://twitter.com/meNabster/status/1539741647721873408

Qur'an Surah 106 Verse 3 gave me yaqeen/certainty needed to accept Mecca is original Becca which hosts Allah's Ka'aba upon which Abraham was given instructions to build Allah's House/Al-Beyt which Believers as pilgrims are enjoined to visit once in their lifetime if they can.

It is also why Allah SWT refers to the family of Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as ahl al-beyt - Household of Allah's House.
I tend to agree with Shia that ahl al-beyt refers to Prophet Mohamed, his wives, his cousin Ali & daughter Fatima & their descendants.

Again I emphasise that Allah's beyt/house is located physically/geographically in Becca/Mecca.
Allah is subtle as Yathrib was renamed Medina, if it were in my power, I would rename Mecca Becca.

May Allah help me to better guidance.

Yusuf Ali
Q106 Bismillah Arrahman Arrahim
1. For the covenants (of security & safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish,
2. Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer,
3. Let them adore the Lord of this House,
4. Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger).

I thank Allah to open my heart to knowledge, & seek His forgiveness for insulting His House for many years, may He forgive me, I seek His protection with His Mercy from His Wrath.

In next posts I will elaborate quoting more from Brother @YnWhq @MeccanThe - may Allah protect him & give him abundance for his noble work. 

[theNabster]

Further notes not included above:

My reservation, a main one, was why would G-d suffer His first shrine & House meant for pilgrimage, to be soiled by idolaters Arabs & others with statues & dancing around it naked?
However, it's rather a Sign of His boundless Mercy that He suffered them besmirching it.

@YnWhq
There were many warnings in the Bible that if the Israelites do not follow in the footsteps of their good ancestors, God will turn his face away from them, their king, and even his chosen city.
The sanction was lifted a millennium later with the last  testament of Islam.

[theNabster]

Further on Mecca / Becca

@YnWhq
The M and B letters are interchangeable in some Arabic dialects, both Mecca & Becca remain to have the same meaning : to smack. Another famous example from Lebanon; where the very people of Baalbec call their city Maalbec.

@meNabster
I think there's no coincidence with Allah's Word, He chose it starting with B not M.
Also Signs/Rites/sha'3air Allah were stolen by Satan in some Satanic rituals, this is how I doubted Mecca because of seven & geometry hexagonal shapes of Saturn https://cycliclaw.com/theion-publishing/the-cult-of-the-black-cube-a-saturnian-grimoire
So I'm now finally ready for Haj thanks to you Brother, jazaka-Allah-alf-khair.
& Still I will from now on refer to Mecca as Becca as it pleases Allah to name it this way (Allah chooses his words & letters in Qur'an with care, each word is a Sign) like alif lam mim alm 😔
Becca al-mukarrama, beyt al-3atiq Becca, dar-u-salam Becca.

@YnWhq
Remember that Mecca is a relatively new name , Becca , Bassah Kadesh , Beer Shaba, Urush, Salem ... being older
UruSalam means the Abode of Peace
عرى السلام

[theNabster]

Alhamdulillah for me these are glorious times that I finally found clear proof to my satisfaction that Mecca is in fact Becca - it is very important to me & I will readjust a lot of my thinking & leaning accordingly - my deep thanks also to @YnWhq @MeccanThe to be the catalyst for it.

There is also a need to revise Kamal Salibi's & here Pazuzu's work in the positioning of Messengers & Prophets from the Bible & in Qur'an - this will need a long thread, I will start one, but to do justice to the research of @YnWhq @MeccanThe that won't be enough, there is a need to get his book/s translated into English, my Arabic which I seldom use is not enough, maybe some good translators like Brother Pazuzu could help?

[jkhan]

Unless God misguided me,  I don't agree with modern day Mecca is Becca... No more comments..
May Allah guide us if our intention is guidance..

[theNabster]

Unless God misguided me,  I don't agree with modern day Mecca is Becca... No more comments..
May Allah guide us if our intention is guidance..

Salam
Surah 106 convinced me fully that Mecca is Becca, Allah does not refer to Mecca because of the idolatry, it should be in my understanding named Becca, not Mecca, & Allah knows best, may He guide us all.
The narrative that in fact Becca is also the first temple Jerusalem to me as Arab Jew is irresistible.