On ritual salah/ prayer

[Sarah]

Peace

I can't help but believe that God wants us to perform ritual prayers.

I've recently read these verses:

except the people of the right, 74:39
who will be in Gardens, asking one another 74:40
about the wicked ˹who will then be asked˺: 74:41
"What has landed you in Hell?" 74:42
They will reply, "We were not of those who prayed, 74:43
nor did we feed the poor. 74:44
We used to indulge ˹in falsehood˺ along with others, 74:45
and deny the Day of Judgment, 74:46
until the inevitable came to us." 74:47

Okay, so the above demonstrates we have to pray but it does not specify how to pray...


And mention the name of your Lord [in prayer] morning and evening 76:25
And during the night prostrate to Him and exalt Him a long [part of the] night. 76:26

So here we should mention the name of our lord morning and evening. We should prostrate to Him and exalt Him in the night. I can't help but interpret this as literal prayer. It just makes the most sense to me.

Woe on that Day to the deniers! 77:47
When it is said to them, "Bow down ˹before Allah," they do not bow. 77:48
Woe on that Day to the deniers! 77:49
So what message after this ˹Quran˺ would they believe in? 77:50

Yet again, verse 48 demonstrates that we have to literally 'bow'...

I find it peculiar how so many verses on bowing, and prostrating can all coincidentally be misinterpreted by Sunni translators? I mean, it would have made more sense if there were only a couple of verses mentioning bowing and prostrating but there seem to be soo many?

I also researched more prayer verses:

4:103 And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or [lying] on your sides. But when you become secure, re-establish [regular] prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times.

We have to pray at specific times. I remember reading that some interpret salah as 'following closely'. How are you supposed to 'follow closely' at specific times?

5:6 O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.

If there's no prayer and you simply have to 'follow closely', then HOW are you supposed to perform wudhu whilst following closely (general term)?

7:170 But those who hold fast to the Book and establish prayer – indeed, We will not allow to be lost the reward of the reformers.

If I remember correctly, some interpret salah as reading the Qur'an. If that's true, why does it say to hold fast to the book and to pray? I do admit, I don't know if the Arabic in this verse specifically mentions the words salah so please forgive me if I'm wrong.


I admit that I do not know Arabic and I also do not know all the verses on prayer but for now, ritual salah being false seems like a wrong interpretation to me. It seems like people don't want to perform ritual salah and therefore try to interpret the verses in such a way as would fit their desires. Again, I am sorry if this is not the case but I just haven't been convinced that bowing, prostrating, etc. is not required. If you don't believe in ritual salah, what made you come to that conclusion? Even if the arabic words for bowing and prostrating can be translated into different words, what makes you sure that YOUR interpretation is correct and the traditional ones are wrong? I don't believe the traditional translations are wrong on every single matter.

[jkhan]

Peace

I can't help but believe that God wants us to perform ritual prayers.

I've recently read these verses:

except the people of the right, 74:39
who will be in Gardens, asking one another 74:40
about the wicked ˹who will then be asked˺: 74:41
"What has landed you in Hell?" 74:42
They will reply, "We were not of those who prayed, 74:43
nor did we feed the poor. 74:44
We used to indulge ˹in falsehood˺ along with others, 74:45
and deny the Day of Judgment, 74:46
until the inevitable came to us." 74:47

Okay, so the above demonstrates we have to pray but it does not specify how to pray...


And mention the name of your Lord [in prayer] morning and evening 76:25
And during the night prostrate to Him and exalt Him a long [part of the] night. 76:26

So here we should mention the name of our lord morning and evening. We should prostrate to Him and exalt Him in the night. I can't help but interpret this as literal prayer. It just makes the most sense to me.

Woe on that Day to the deniers! 77:47
When it is said to them, "Bow down ˹before Allah," they do not bow. 77:48
Woe on that Day to the deniers! 77:49
So what message after this ˹Quran˺ would they believe in? 77:50

Yet again, verse 48 demonstrates that we have to literally 'bow'...

I find it peculiar how so many verses on bowing, and prostrating can all coincidentally be misinterpreted by Sunni translators? I mean, it would have made more sense if there were only a couple of verses mentioning bowing and prostrating but there seem to be soo many?

I also researched more prayer verses:

4:103 And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or [lying] on your sides. But when you become secure, re-establish [regular] prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times.

We have to pray at specific times. I remember reading that some interpret salah as 'following closely'. How are you supposed to 'follow closely' at specific times?

5:6 O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.

If there's no prayer and you simply have to 'follow closely', then HOW are you supposed to perform wudhu whilst following closely (general term)?

7:170 But those who hold fast to the Book and establish prayer – indeed, We will not allow to be lost the reward of the reformers.

If I remember correctly, some interpret salah as reading the Qur'an. If that's true, why does it say to hold fast to the book and to pray? I do admit, I don't know if the Arabic in this verse specifically mentions the words salah so please forgive me if I'm wrong.


I admit that I do not know Arabic and I also do not know all the verses on prayer but for now, ritual salah being false seems like a wrong interpretation to me. It seems like people don't want to perform ritual salah and therefore try to interpret the verses in such a way as would fit their desires. Again, I am sorry if this is not the case but I just haven't been convinced that bowing, prostrating, etc. is not required. If you don't believe in ritual salah, what made you come to that conclusion? Even if the arabic words for bowing and prostrating can be translated into different words, what makes you sure that YOUR interpretation is correct and the traditional ones are wrong? I don't believe the traditional translations are wrong on every single matter.

Salam Sarah...

I know the transition time for any constant true believer is so hard..  I hope you are going through it...

If the scriptures revealed were enough for previous people who were true believers and terminated their lives as true believers then the scripture revealed that is to say Quran is enough for true believers to find guidance in them... So if the past believers performed Salah (prayers)  merely based on Quran, Torah or Injeel in the past then it won't be an issue for modern believers to perform Salah based on Quran... Only thing is research and beg for guidance.. Believers need to work hard to find truth in everything...  Truth is always something that needs to be looked for with exertion of meticulous application of comprehension and be content with it when convinced from all questions. ..  Unless we can follow as everyone does..  We can follow what everyone follows if we were living amongst Messengers...  But we are not.. So we can't follow blindly our ancestors as things come from history..
Having said that.. Definitely there is time fixed Salah (a sort of remembrance of God in words)  not ritual coz they are not identical pattern by everyone.. After all remembering and praising God cannot be ritual..

Since you are aware timing is given in Quran in verse 17:78 and 11:114 I won't detail them..  So Quran has given fixed time.. So no need approach any other source..  Next is cleanliness before Salat.. 4:43 and 5:6 is manifest.. So no Issue with it..
Remember after all Salat is remembering and thus magnifying God a lot in a specified times during given times.. Isn't it?

How to perform?  This question arises coz we feel like we want a ritual pattern or we feel like we want to perform like others perform.. There comes the greatest filthy notion...
God is clear in verse 17:110-111 is complete salah how to perform it..

So you know timing... As well You know you need to be clean and in good mental situation...  And as per 17:110-111 stand  and call Allah or Arrahman...  Say specifically 17:111 verse repeatedly as much you love to..  Then magnify your Lord as much as you can...  All in standing position... Then complete with true SUMBISSION/sujud (state of mind).. Then Your Salat is over...  Why one say there is no salat mentioned while Allah has clarified cristal clearly...

Note.. Well so much intense on two words..physical ruku and physical sujud.. Physical Ruku or sujud is not part of salah ... Humility(ruku) and submission(sujud) in Salat is absolutely should be there.. We are not parroting... We praise the Lord so feel it.. Sense it... Let your whole body and mind perceive that you remember and magnify your creator..

If you really want to know the meaning of Ruku pls carefully study verse 5:55 or 38:24... Deeply reflect with all angle possible...

And if you really want know what Sujud is then compare 3:83 with 13:15... Reflect deeply..

Allah doesn't need our physical positions like keeping our forhead on floor or bending our back in kneeling position to remember Him.. What is important is our obedience with heart... But Salat is a significant act and time fixed and Allah has taught it to be done standing position (which is so natural human posture) while all other reverence or rememberance can be done standing or sitting or lying down..  But they all rememberance..  Salat is unique..
Stand in salat firmly if you are allowed or able... 

Note: the verses you brought above is not Salat at all.. Thtee times Musalleen appear and they are not Salat.. Reflect and compare deeply..
Salli verses in Quran are hardly pray but have many meaning within Quran.. Remember within quran.. Read all salli verses..
Salat verses most of them are INTEGRITY (dictionary : the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.) ... only few remember very few are Prayers...

I know it won't be easy for any normal person to grasp but if Allah will and if you are true believer and constant in faith, then. I am sure you will in sha Allah . Coz this is the book through which Mohamed prayed salah and his community who were believers.. So.. Why not we if we are indeed true believers..

Research and beg to the author of the book,  I am sure He will teach you what is truth... In sha Allah...  Be patient and don't waver in faith and seek with intent...

until you yourself realize, my words are just like passing showers... But had you realized you will realize how deep it is..

Thank you..
May Allah bless you with guidance which is real...

[Emre_1974tr]

Of course, all the details of ablution and namaz/salaat are given in the verses:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611629.0

[amin]

Peace

I can't help but believe that God wants us to perform ritual prayers.

I've recently read these verses:

except the people of the right, 74:39
who will be in Gardens, asking one another 74:40
about the wicked ˹who will then be asked˺: 74:41
"What has landed you in Hell?" 74:42
They will reply, "We were not of those who prayed, 74:43
nor did we feed the poor. 74:44
We used to indulge ˹in falsehood˺ along with others, 74:45
and deny the Day of Judgment, 74:46
until the inevitable came to us." 74:47

Okay, so the above demonstrates we have to pray but it does not specify how to pray...


And mention the name of your Lord [in prayer] morning and evening 76:25
And during the night prostrate to Him and exalt Him a long [part of the] night. 76:26

So here we should mention the name of our lord morning and evening. We should prostrate to Him and exalt Him in the night. I can't help but interpret this as literal prayer. It just makes the most sense to me.

Woe on that Day to the deniers! 77:47
When it is said to them, "Bow down ˹before Allah," they do not bow. 77:48
Woe on that Day to the deniers! 77:49
So what message after this ˹Quran˺ would they believe in? 77:50

Yet again, verse 48 demonstrates that we have to literally 'bow'...

I find it peculiar how so many verses on bowing, and prostrating can all coincidentally be misinterpreted by Sunni translators? I mean, it would have made more sense if there were only a couple of verses mentioning bowing and prostrating but there seem to be soo many?

I also researched more prayer verses:

4:103 And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or [lying] on your sides. But when you become secure, re-establish [regular] prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times.

We have to pray at specific times. I remember reading that some interpret salah as 'following closely'. How are you supposed to 'follow closely' at specific times?

5:6 O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.

If there's no prayer and you simply have to 'follow closely', then HOW are you supposed to perform wudhu whilst following closely (general term)?

7:170 But those who hold fast to the Book and establish prayer – indeed, We will not allow to be lost the reward of the reformers.

If I remember correctly, some interpret salah as reading the Qur'an. If that's true, why does it say to hold fast to the book and to pray? I do admit, I don't know if the Arabic in this verse specifically mentions the words salah so please forgive me if I'm wrong.


I admit that I do not know Arabic and I also do not know all the verses on prayer but for now, ritual salah being false seems like a wrong interpretation to me. It seems like people don't want to perform ritual salah and therefore try to interpret the verses in such a way as would fit their desires. Again, I am sorry if this is not the case but I just haven't been convinced that bowing, prostrating, etc. is not required. If you don't believe in ritual salah, what made you come to that conclusion? Even if the arabic words for bowing and prostrating can be translated into different words, what makes you sure that YOUR interpretation is correct and the traditional ones are wrong? I don't believe the traditional translations are wrong on every single matter.

It was not plain ritual without any meaning, but a ritual for one Promising to God to do good things, act morally, remembering God, the goodness provider. So we learn whats good and remind ourselves whats good and Zakat is the delivery of our promises. The act of bowing everywhere is to express our obedience to our master the God. We spend some time on our work in the day, and rest at the night, we eat and do specific things at specific times, so everything in life becomes a ritual. Peace.