Having relationships before marriage not compatible with quran?

[hope4]

Selam

I personally feel that it is good to know someone is compatible to you before marriage as it will lead to a more happier future in my opinion. However, getting to know them does not necessarily need to be physical but mental. Once the mental connection is made with a prospective partner then the physical element should come after marriage. Peoples psychic is such that they desire what they could not have. Less is more in this instance. Building the foundations in this way will lead to a more stable marriage.

Peace

[SarahY]

I agree people don?t need to follow man made ways, they can if they want to provided they fulfill Quranic obligations of marriage.
 
How should they get married (excluding the criteria of who to marry).. there isn?t really an explicit definition of how one should get married all i can seem to find is giving women dowry (saduqatihinna 4:4) but is that really dowry? and it's to nisa... nisa seems to be another contested issue. As in, who are the nisa but for now let's assume all women. 

And possibly a record of marriage, what do you take of verse 24:33? Should marriage be recorded? 

I'll be interested to see what others say. it's still early i'm sure others will reply

Hope4 i don't think knowing someone is an issue and true it's not necessarily physical. i think the issue is what are the limits to dating, is kissing? ok? is it not? etc etc   

Peace

[hope4]

Selam

I don't see why kissing will be a problem, but you can't meet them in private right? So will kissing in public be viewed acceptable? For a westen society we are used to it, but could you imagine what people will be like in the east. I still think that the initial connection should be emotional/mental and then physical will come after oaths are made.

Peace

[David_K]

Selam

I personally feel that it is good to know someone is compatible to you before marriage as it will lead to a more happier future in my opinion. However, getting to know them does not necessarily need to be physical but mental. Once the mental connection is made with a prospective partner then the physical element should come after marriage. Peoples psychic is such that they desire what they could not have. Less is more in this instance. Building the foundations in this way will lead to a more stable marriage.

Peace

Good point. And you are right, getting to know someone does not need to be physical. It can be mental in the beginning. And when a man and a woman have decided to marry (made promise before god), they are free to continue to the next stage from my understanding.

But lets be realistic. Do you think women i know will accept this? I think if you tell them that you can not kiss before marriage, they will either think that you are crazy, or that you don't like girls. lol.   I think that if the woman is a true believer she would accept this. But most women are not true believers and they are condition by popular culture and hollywood to believe that getting to know eachother have to be physical. And most men are also conditioned to believe that getting to know eachother have to be physical.

So the only choice left is that people who believe in God alone must marry other people who believe in God alone. Because as we know, the majority will not accept that relationships can only be mental before marriage. And the only people who can accept that relationships should only be mental are other true believers.

[David_K]

And possibly a record of marriage, what do you take of verse 24:33? Should marriage be recorded?  

From my interpretation of the verse, the marriage should be recorded with women. The verse tells us that the marriage should be documented with them.

Quran 24:33   
And let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty. And if those who are maintained by your oaths seek to consummate the marriage, then document it with them if you find that they are ready, and give them from the wealth of God which He has bestowed upon you. And do not force your daughters into marriage when they have desired independence, in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this worldly life. But if anyone has compelled them, then for their compulsion, God is Forgiving, Merciful.

I have question. The verse above also say "those who are maintained by your oaths", does maintained by your oaths mean engagement? How do you intepret it?

[hope4]

But kets be realistic. Do you think women i know will accept this? I think if you tell them that you can not kiss before marriage, they will either think that you are crazy, or that you don't like girls. lol.   I think that if the woman is a true believer she would accept this. But most women are not true believers and they are condition by popular culture and hollywood to believe that getting to know eachother have to be physical. And most men are also conditioned to believe that getting to know eachother have to be physical.

Selam

Good point  Very hard situation, although your intentions maybe good the opposite sex may not be thinking the same.

Peace

[David_K]

Selam

Good point   Very hard situation, although your intentions maybe good the opposite sex may not be thinking the same.

Peace

We are living in an upside down world. A world were morality is seen as strange and bad, while immorality is status and good. Sad but true.

[Jack]

I recommend this thread.

Regarding 2:235:Do not promise them secretly would be more accurate...

Wa'ada:

wa'ada vb. (1)
perf. act. 3:194, 4:95, 5:9, 7:44, 7:44, 9:68, 9:72, 9:77, 9:114, 14:22, 14:22, 19:61, 22:72, 24:55, 28:61, 33:12, 33:22, 36:52, 40:8, 43:42, 48:20, 48:29, 57:10
impf. act. 2:268, 2:268, 4:120, 4:120, 7:70, 7:77, 8:7, 10:46, 11:32, 13:40, 17:64, 20:86, 23:35, 23:95, 35:40, 40:28, 40:77, 46:17, 46:22
impv. 17:64
perf. pass. 13:35, 23:83, 25:15, 27:68, 47:15
impf. pass. 6:134, 19:75, 21:103, 21:109, 23:36, 23:93, 26:206, 36:63, 38:53, 41:30, 43:83, 46:16, 46:35, 50:32, 51:5, 51:22, 51:60, 70:42, 70:44, 72:24, 72:25, 77:7
n. vb. 3:152, 4:122, 9:111, 10:4, 10:48, 10:55, 11:45, 11:65, 13:31, 14:22, 14:47, 16:38, 17:5, 17:5, 17:7, 17:104, 17:108, 18:21, 18:98, 18:98, 19:54, 19:61, 20:86, 21:9, 21:38, 21:97, 21:104, 22:47, 25:16, 27:71, 28:13, 28:61, 30:6, 30:6, 30:60, 31:9, 31:33, 34:29, 35:5, 36:48, 39:20, 39:74, 40:55, 40:77, 45:32, 46:16, 46:17, 67:25, 73:18
pcple. pass. 85:2

wa'ada vb. (3)
perf. act. 2:51, 7:142, 20:80
impf. act. 2:235

[BornAgain]

But lets be realistic. Do you think women i know will accept this? I think if you tell them that you can not kiss before marriage, they will either think that you are crazy, or that you don't like girls. lol.   I think that if the woman is a true believer she would accept this. But most women are not true believers and they are condition by popular culture and hollywood to believe that getting to know eachother have to be physical. And most men are also conditioned to believe that getting to know eachother have to be physical.

So the only choice left is that people who believe in God alone must marry other people who believe in God alone. Because as we know, the majority will not accept that relationships can only be mental before marriage. And the only people who can accept that relationships should only be mental are other true believers.

Salaam,

Don't lose hope yet! I'm one of the few women who prefers mental relationship than physical one before marriage. I think my ideal way of 'dating' is having discussions on our beliefs, views, future etc etc, than getting all touchy and smoochy.

That being said, I'm currently in relationship with a Sunni guy (no touching is involved since it's LDR) and I don't think it's going anywhere...

[san]

Peace all


CMIIW but so far, i guess mental/emotional relationship is the agreement here...

The question is now: Where to hunt?  Oops i mean where do we find 'like-minded target'--i mean 'prospect...' (sigh) 

OK seriously, where do we find a 'like-minded' person of the opposite sex?

I have some vague idea that i can only be sure that i've met the right person when i see with my own eyes, she is doing a 'Quranic good-deeds' act--and then again the next day, and the day after ... until i'm sure it's her habit to do 'Quranic good-deeds' act.

What way is better for me to find someone like her, other than to be on the same plane she's on? Sure i wouldn't find her on midnite parties, would i? Voluntary missions/organizations would be a better chance for me. How about the everyday street and cafes? What chance is there to find someone 'right'? If you get what i mean, then you'll understand my point: if one is ready to marry, he/she must seek -- not just waiting for chance and praying to tears -- but seek the target personality in the most possible events.

Because 'soulmate' is not a matter of chance -- it is one of God's signs:

30:21  And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.