Questions on Ritual Salah

[jkhan]

Some are asking me that 29:45 is salah or not?... Let me explain..

29:45
"Recite (tā lām wāw ت ل و what is revealed to you of the Book and establish connection / integrity Indeed, connection (salah) prevents immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater, and Allah knows that which you do."

If you look at the above verse,  most would say yes read Quran and perform salah... That's how we are programmed..
If you take word tā lām wāw  as RECITE here ..fine.. Of course this word has a meaning of RECITE...  but it has other meanings as well which Quran specifically used.. But actual meaning in this verse is PURSUE like in some other verses of Quran..

"Pursue what is revealed to you of the book,  and establish connection / integrity (salah), indeed connection/integrity (salah) prevents immoralities and evils, and the remembrance of Allah is greater and Allah knows that what you do."

Ritual salah never even has the capacity to prevent immoralities and evils.. It's just a movement of body... But this (salah) connection / integrity with Allah is a powerful weapon and its truthful and stands as a barricade in your heart and thus it keeps away immoralities and evils... But in the same verse Allah states more than the Connection /Salah,  the Remembrance / Zikr Allah is great.. Cuz connection is kind of fear and respect but remembering Allah is indeed greater...

Note: I don't see those who do ritual salah are with pure characters void of immoralities and evils.. It doesn't help.. At least I have seen people who try hard to prevent some basic evils from dawn to dusk while doing fasting just to safeguard their fasting but they do all evils cuz they not even aware what immoralities and evils are.. They are restricted only with sex but all evils in business and in general life and in heart  never faded off..

Nothing prevents immoralities and evils except Connection (Salah) to Allah...  And Allah didn't even mention that Siyam prevents immoralities and evils..
** some conventional Muslims do have Connection / salah with Allah for sure but they never believed in Allah without associating to Allah.  . That's unfortunate..

[Fusion]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that verse and the bigger picture about Salah and remembering Allah. It really got me thinking about how deep and complex our faith is, and how we're all trying to better understand and live by its teachings.

You made a good point about how just going through the motions with rituals isn't enough if we're not truly feeling it in our hearts. It's all about that real, deep connection with Allah, which is what really guides us to be better.

But, I also think that the physical side of these rituals, like doing Ritual Salah, has its own importance. It's not just about moving our bodies; it's a way to show our love and respect for Allah with both our minds and our physical actions. Like in the Quran, in Chapter 73, Verses 1 to 3, it talks about the special vibe of praying at night and how it's a quiet time for reflection. It shows how our physical actions in worship can really support our spiritual growth.
73:
O you wrapped ˹in your clothes˺!
Stand all night except a little 
half the night, or a little less,
or a little more—and recite the Quran in a measured way
We will soon send upon you a weighty revelation.
Indeed, worship in the night is more impactful and suitable for recitation.

Also, it's key we don't lump all Muslims together or think we're all the same, which can end up dividing us. It's like how some people might have a narrow view of Muslims based on stereotypes based on our own personal observations alone. We should remember that what really matters is what's in our hearts, and Allah knows that best. Sometimes, even when we're trying to get it right, we might end up feeling like we know better than others, but really, it's about being sincere and doing our best to follow Allah's guidance.

About the verse you mentioned (29:45), when you look into it, it's really about how following Allah's guidance isn't just about personal rituals but about setting up a way of life that helps everyone. It's about being fair, kind, and looking out for each other, which is what Islam is all about.

The way you explained that verse really highlights how Islam teaches us to live in a way that's not just good for us but good for everyone around us. It's about stopping selfishness and making sure we're all working together for the greater good.

So, yes, our faith is about finding that balance between feeling that connection with Allah in our hearts and also living it out in our actions and how we treat others.

Let's keep the conversation going and keep learning from each other. It's all about getting closer to Allah and understanding the true meaning of our faith.

[jkhan]

Some are asking me that 29:45 is salah or not?... Let me explain..

29:45
"Recite (tā lām wāw ت ل و what is revealed to you of the Book and establish connection / integrity Indeed, connection (salah) prevents immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater, and Allah knows that which you do."

If you look at the above verse,  most would say yes read Quran and perform salah... That's how we are programmed..
If you take word tā lām wāw  as RECITE here ..fine.. Of course this word has a meaning of RECITE...  but it has other meanings as well which Quran specifically used.. But actual meaning in this verse is PURSUE like in some other verses of Quran..

"Pursue what is revealed to you of the book,  and establish connection / integrity (salah), indeed connection/integrity (salah) prevents immoralities and evils, and the remembrance of Allah is greater and Allah knows that what you do."

Ritual salah never even has the capacity to prevent immoralities and evils.. It's just a movement of body... But this (salah) connection / integrity with Allah is a powerful weapon and its truthful and stands as a barricade in your heart and thus it keeps away immoralities and evils... But in the same verse Allah states more than the Connection /Salah,  the Remembrance / Zikr Allah is great.. Cuz connection is kind of fear and respect but remembering Allah is indeed greater...

Note: I don't see those who do ritual salah are with pure characters void of immoralities and evils.. It doesn't help.. At least I have seen people who try hard to prevent some basic evils from dawn to dusk while doing fasting just to safeguard their fasting but they do all evils cuz they not even aware what immoralities and evils are.. They are restricted only with sex but all evils in business and in general life and in heart  never faded off..

Nothing prevents immoralities and evils except Connection (Salah) to Allah...  And Allah didn't even mention that Siyam prevents immoralities and evils..
** some conventional Muslims do have Connection / salah with Allah for sure but they never believed in Allah without associating to Allah.  . That's unfortunate..

Salam everyone..
Just reflect.. No compulsion at all.. I only remind with Quran..

31:17
(Luqman said) "O my son! establish CONNECTION / INTEGRITY (SALAH), and carry out what is good and restrain what is evil, and be perseverant over whatever befalls you. Indeed, that is the conduct of determination"

In fact the wise Luqman was instructing and teaching his son who Allah is and His strength and abilities and then he instructs with the above statement (31:17) and not directly command his son to do ritual prayer... Luqman already explained what God is to his son. .
Now luqman politely instructs his son to cultivate CONNECTION / INTEGRITY (salah) with Allah and to carry out good and restrain evil.. Of course while doing so much difficulties would encounter and wisely advised to be patient and persevere with self determination and that tests a will power of a person.
Luqman introduced Allah to his son in a perfect and wise manner...

If I ever have sons or daughters in my life God willing I would do the same and it is perfect kick off for a kid... And not take him or her to Masjeds and do rituals.. No way..

Note : before reading verse 31:17 pls read Luqman's advices to his son in previous verses and also continue reading up to 31:19 for better clarity.. ...

[Wakas]

peace all,

A common objection to the traditional understanding of salat=prayer is does it really prevent immorality and bad deeds? The argument is given that if done right/sincerely then yes it should prevent such. Perhaps but here is a better translation of 29:45

Recite what has been revealed to you of the writ/book and uphold the salat, Indeed the salat forbids from the immorality and bad deeds; and surely the remembrance/mentioning of God is greatest and God knows what you do.


Clearly if salat forbids XYZ then it must involve information relay i.e. conveying what is forbidden. It then begins to make sense, see articles below.

Background:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

[Emre_1974tr]

Yes, physical salaat also purifies people physically and helps to keep them away from evil. You get a similar effect when you consume superfoods like ginseng. But the effect of salaat in this regard is completely different.

Physical salah is also our daily food. Anyone who does not perform this act of worship is doing himself a disservice in every sense of the word, he is persecuting himself.

An atheist I know in Turkey started salah just because of these benefits.


Salah purifies and cleanses you from the narcissistic energy network also. It reduces the effects of human and jinn demons on you.

[jkhan]

108:1-2
"Verily we have given you (AlKawzhar) the treasure."
"So,  get connected (salli) to your Lord and be upfront"

Here the treasure is Quran which is abundance of knowledge and wisdom and guidance... So have the connection to the Lord and be upfront in order that you can dismantle enemies (satan  and men)

@Waqas..
Forbid instead of refrain / desist / prevent ??

[Emre_1974tr]

Yes, physical salaat also purifies people physically and helps to keep them away from evil. You get a similar effect when you consume superfoods like ginseng. But the effect of salaat in this regard is completely different.

Physical salah is also our daily food. Anyone who does not perform this act of worship is doing himself a disservice in every sense of the word, he is persecuting himself.

An atheist I know in Turkey started salah just because of these benefits.


Salah purifies and cleanses you from the narcissistic energy network also. It reduces the effects of human and jinn demons on you.

Physical salaat not only treats and develops your character, but also makes a positive contribution to your physical health and happiness.

He/she who does not salah loses a lot. I have not even mentioned prayer, obligation and other parts.

[Mazhar]

Sociality is the fundamental characteristic of the created realm, matter and life both. Nothing can exist in isolation and at its own. However, Man needs to be given training and skills required for functioning successfully in the society. The par excellent social activity - event is the socialization of the Subject with the Lord-King-Sovereign. The affectionate Sovereign is he who affords opportunities to his subjects to be in his presence occasionally for sometime for paying homage and seeking blessings of him. The subjects gain strength, feel of security and confidence by being in the House of the Sovereign. It becomes subject's pride.

We as social beings living in societies and states are well aware of the protocols of Subject-Lord Contact. Timings are determined by the Lord. The Subject is required to follow the prescribed dress code and manners of speech and gestures while in the premises of Lord.

Universe is the State of the Sustainer Lord of all the created realm and we are the resident subjects of it. The Sustainer Lord, Allah the Exalted has prescribed and made it mandatory for us to contact Him everyday at intervals. This is called in Arabic:AsSalat : The time bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance.

http://haqeeqat.pk/Salat.htm

[good logic]

Peace All.
Those who accept the Qoran will go on to read/study it:

Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted.
اقرَأ وَرَبُّكَ الأَكرَمُ
Teaches by means of the pen.
الَّذى عَلَّمَ بِالقَلَمِ
He teaches the human what he never knew.
عَلَّمَ الإِنسٰنَ ما لَم يَعلَم

 Then ask for guidance, Your Lord tests everyone:

Indeed, the human transgresses.
كَلّا إِنَّ الإِنسٰنَ لَيَطغىٰ

The most important basis is our works ,  social responsibilities and intentions /behaviour. Freedom of choice is paramount and a right to each one of us from our Lord.
What harm comes from prayer and fasting since they are personal and do not infringe on anyone s right? Are we still debating like the past generations and not learning  on what is dividing us?

I rather highlight the things that unite and refrain from what divides. Our understanding of GOD s message is subject to GOD s knowledge not ours. GOD is the teacher of Qoran:

Then each can follow their own guidance according to their own assessment by the Lord only:

To your Lord is the ultimate destiny.
إِنَّ إِلىٰ رَبِّكَ الرُّجعىٰ
Have you seen the one who enjoins.
أَرَءَيتَ الَّذى يَنهىٰ
Others from "Salla"?
عَبدًا إِذا صَلّىٰ
Is it not better for him to follow the guidance?
أَرَءَيتَ إِن كانَ عَلَى الهُدىٰ
Or advocate righteousness?
أَو أَمَرَ بِالتَّقوىٰ

However , the debate continues for those who think there are issues with personal relationships with the Lord and His subjects.
Once on the straight path ,one follows righteousness first and advocate it as a priority. This is what unites all the believers.
The devotion to GOD and the personal relationships with the Lord come in stages to consolidate the belief and the character and is ongoing.

 I benefit from fasting and connecting daily with my Lord. I do not see it as a rigid task/ritual . My Lord has no needs and everything I try to do is for  my benefit or detriment.

Since I am entitled to my freedom of choice I have to accept that others have theirs also.
GOD bless you all.
Peace
 

[jkhan]

Salam everyone..


87:14 Certainly succeeded he who purified (Zaka).

87:15 And remembered name of his Lord and got connected (Salla)

Most would connect with God but for self benefit and to crave for their distress and then connection is disconnected and they are not constant in their connection... Just pretending / showing off.. Selfish.. That's why Allah said woe to those who got connected..

Through the constant connection with Allah,  souls /self get purified and that's why Allah has always used Sala and zaka...  Allah could have said Akimu salah wa'athu sadaqa at least once... Allah knows what the word is what He meant.. Allah has used establish connection and they spend from what we have provided.. That's absolutely fine.. But never Akim sala wa'athu  sadaqa... Cuz zaka is not a charity it's purity / purification ...and the one who truly establishes connection with Allah indeed bringsforth purity..

@brother GL..
I understand your statement.. Everyone's  action is in Allah's hand.. He knows the guided ones.. But my lovely brother Quran is guidance for those conscious.. When Allah has stated something in Quran it has its unique meaning and it cannot be taken for granted.. The believers will be guided with it for sure.. Cuz Allah won't misguide true believers.. If one takes salah as ritual bodily movement with few arabic statements from Quran and from their own as well and uttering them in salah and another takes it as Connection ie strong relationship  / bond  of integrity with Allah.. There cannot be done division in Allah's guidance.. Question is what did Allah mean by Salah? Just Believing in Allah and cultivated connection with Allah has huge difference..
Indeed Salah keeps immoralities and evils at bay.. Cuz of this connection / bond / relationship with Allah truely..
One can have connection with anyone.. Connections are common.. But when that connection is utmost and real, then story is different.. Let me bring few analogy to bring to light better..
For example.. If a husband has cultivated true connection / bond / relationship which is full of integrity then even any woman try to seduce him, would not work out cuz his wife's face will come infront of him cuz the connection is too strong.. His heart not allow to betray and sever connection.. He refrains..
Similarly.. If two guys truly became friends and their connection cultivated to its pristine quality and everything is transparent then their bond / relationship is inseparable and genuine and falsehood won't creep in.. But imagine connection is selfish or transitory or  target oriented etc etc so this connection won't last and even it lasts it's not real...
Salah to Allah should be constant and humble and with integrity so that Allah gets connected with us even Malika ...
So to cultivate such a connection one doesn't need to do a ritual  .okay don't call it ritual if  you prefer but still we do bodily postures to get connected to Allah  . Why? it won't work out.. Our heart should get connected 24/7 ... Thus we should feel we are not betraying our connection when attempting an evil.. Cuz the one we are connected with doesn't like evil be performed.. So why we refrain that evil cuz of our relationship with Allah.. If one is constant like that indeed he will get purified impulsively...

70:23 "They upon their Connection (Salah) constant "

Moreover brother GL.. It's not about harming others.. Yes rituals of anyone won't harm mostly others and so personal but question is has Allah commanded and is that a guidance?

Sometimes my brother GL.. You might have connected well and truly with God but not with five times bodily movement but in reality you are already connected OR cultivating a true bond OR relationship but unfortunately something is propelling you to do rituals too... You have already connection...
Seek guidance... And nourish the soul.