Theory of Evolution anyone ?

[jkhan]

salam jkhan

you may eat pigs if compelled just as you may eat carrion when you are compelled

i do not understand what is the issue with being given permission to eat a forbidden food if compelled and not seeking transgression. how does that negate the fact that swine was made from humans???

why apes are not forbidden to eat? only The God knows. maybe the way pigs were made from humans is not the same as the way apes where made (actually body versus just dna etc) or maybe because those to whom the Book was sent do not eat apes anyways, but tend to eat swine.
i do not know why apes are not forbidden. all i know is to take the Quran as the literal word of The God, and when He says He made apes and pigs from humans, then i believe it
i do not understand why people are interpeting YET AGAIN the Quran, especially a very straight forward verse !!!

you say "The reason to forbid is no way near what you claim.. Try to understand your claim is weak.. Don't be adamant.. It's so clear... God never forbids coz pigs are human.. Lol..."

so what do you claim?? what is your understanding?
you say its soo clear...what do you mean its soo clear? what is soo clear?
if you have some special knowledge please share

anyways peace my friend and good luck

Brother.. Peace..

Unfortunately you are repeating.. And you have no idea in each thread what you write.. You skip..

Your quote "i have a question, why do people assume swine (and apes) are "low" animals? what is your criteria for them being "low"?? what does it even mean "low"?"

Coz God called flesh of swine is "Rijz" ..whatever the meaning you take for rijz I don't mind.. But God simply forbid it and called rijz not given the reason as equal to human flesh.

Your quote "and why would pork be forbidden if not that they were made from humans as mentioned clearly?"

This is the claim I entered to this topic.. You openly claimed the above..
It's not true.. You can't make it true while you don't have proof..
Only one verse in entire Quran 5:60 says ja'ala minhum apes and pigs.. So it is common verse to apes and pigs.. Remember common verse..
If the reason you take by this verse pigs forbidden coz they are Human and there is no reason why God should allow apes.. What logic is this? So apes also human.. Chapter close..
That's my last take.. Whatever you take is assumptions and assumptions are not equal to truth and evidence from God..

I have no answers through QURAN for illogical  adamance but I can answer for logical questions.. If you want to research whether God turned human into apes and pigs keep researching.. But don't claim forbid matter without proof

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

many translations translate rijz as impure

so...pig of flesh is impure...why? there is a reason no? and i understand it to be because they were made form humans

being rijz or impure is not a reason !!! it is a condition !!!

anyways, whatever the reason pig is forbidden, it does not change the fact that we are told in the verse that The God made apes and pigs from humans He was angry with

i gave my opinion, and you gave yours  - which is to negate mine. i did not claim to have certitude of anything, i just shared my understanding

but you continuously claim i an wrong. and how can you contiiiinuously claim with certitude that i am wrong???

anyways good luck to you as well

peace

[jkhan]

salam jkhan

many translations translate rijz as impure

so...pig of flesh is impure...why? there is a reason no? and i understand it to be because they were made form humans

rijz or impure is not a reason !!! it is a condition !!!

i gave my opinion, you give yours  - which is to negate mine

and how can you continuously claim with certitude that i am wrong with???

anyways good luck to you as well

peace

Peace..
Keep calling what you claim but no proof from Quran you will find...

@ Everyone...

3:93 "ALL FOOD was LAWFUL to the Children of Israel except what Israel had made unlawful to himself before the Torah was revealed. Say, [O Muhammad], "So bring the Torah and recite it, if you should be truthful "

carefully read above verse.. What does it say?
All food  is LAWFUL  ... For whome?  Children of Israel... When God said all food means all.. Even blood or dead animal or pigs.. Simply all....
God didn't forbid.. But children of Israel forbid themselves..
When actually this happened?  BEFORE Torah was revealed... In Torah pigs are mentioned..

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

all food was lawful ... because maybe pigs did not exist before or during the time of israel ?!! we do not know who israel was nor when he lived

and as per your understanding, so even the dead animal was legal before israel? and even food dedicated to other than The God was legal? blood was legal too? then The God decided to make them unlawful at some point?
perhaps, The God does what He wants

or maybe ALL food meant ALL FOOD that was not initially illegal (ie dead animals, animals not dedicated to The God, swine, blood ...)

AND anyways, forget the restriction
the point is The God says He made apes and swine from humans He was angry with!
the verse is clear

anyways take care dude

peace

[Noon waalqalami]

salam noon waalqalami

we are told THE apes and THE swine but NOT THE abada

and also abada could perhaps mean and "they worship the taghut"

so perhaps The God made from them THE apes and THE swine and they worship the taghut (devil?)

or The God made from them THE apes and THE swine and worshippers of the taghut (devil?) AND NOT THHHHE worshippers of taghut

no

5:60 ... وغضب and anger علىه on him/said person وجعل and made منهم min'humu/of them القرده the monkeys والخنزىر and the swines وعبد and devotee الطغوت l-taghuta/the false idols ...

and made of them the monkeys (non-literal idiom)
and made of them the swines (non-literal idiom)
and made of them devotee the false idols (still people!)

5:61 واذا and when of جاوكم they (see above) come to you قالوا said they of امنا believe we of وقد and assuredly دخلوا enter they of بالكفر in the disbelief...

5:62 وترى and thou see كثىرا much of منهم min'hum/of them (see above) ىسرعون hastening فى in الاثم the detriment والعدون and the transgression واكلهم and consumption theirs السحت the illicit لبىس surely wretched ما what كانوا be they of ىعملون working

16:36 ولقد and surely بعثنا raise we of فى in كل every امه community رسولا messenger of ان that اعبدوا devotes they of الله the god واجتنبوا and avoids they of الطغوت l-taghuta/the false idols فمنهم famin'hum/so of (among) them من who هدى guidance الله the god ومنهم wamin'hum/and of (among) them من who حقت justified علىه on him/said person الضلله the misguidance its فسىروا so travel ye of فى in الارض the land فانظروا so observes ye of كىف how كان be عقبه end المكذبىن the deniers

39:17 والذىن and the ones اجتنبوا avoids they of الطغوت l-taghuta/the false idols ان lest ىعبدوها yaʿbuduha/devoted they them ...


similar structure ...

2:173 انما solely حرم prohibit علىكم upon you المىته the lifeless والدم and the blood ولحم and flesh الخنزىر the swine
prohibit upon you the lifeless
prohibit upon you the blood
prohibit upon you flesh the swine

cannot be an adjective e.g. flesh the rotten
basic rule if definite noun, definite adjective
examples: the flesh (noun) the rotten (adjective)
البىت the house (noun) العتىق the ancient (adjective)

peace!

[tutti_frutti]

salam noon waalqalami

no use in debating. you are very adamant about those people being made "like" monkeys and swine, and you are very vehement in your conclusion

anyways, let us assume they were made "like" apes and swine as you say

what does that even mean??? they were made to eat bananas and jump on trees??? or they were made to roll on mud like swine?? and they were made to say "oink oink" (pig noise)?

or you mean they were made to be considered "low" as apes and swine?? what does that mean? how do you classify apes and swine as low?? what does low mean?

think please, think

the verse is very clear. The God is capable of everything, literally. why not believe The God when He clearly says He made apes and swine from transgressors He was angry with?

The God told us He made from the transgressors pigs ans and monkeys, why not believe Him ?!! and why do you start interpreting the verse??

peace and good luck

[jkhan]

3:66 "Here you are - those who have argued about that of which you have [some] knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows, while you know not"

Peace everyone..
I don't blame NW And TF.. All I can say is you will never get evidence on things God has not given enough knowledge...
If still both of you feel you have evidence....  That can only be your assumptions...


Argue on matters which you have knowledge and don't argue on matters which you have no knowledge...
I debated saying pork was forbidden not coz pigs are human.. Coz I have proof within Quran...  But to claim pigs and apes OR monkeys are born from Human and we see them now as pigs and humans one upon a time they were human ... No knowledge..
Last post on this... Thank you..

[Noon waalqalami]

anyways, let us assume they were made "like" apes and swine as you say

what does that even mean???

peace tutti, similar examples...
7:176 كمثل like similitude الكلب the dog
7:179 اولىك those كالانعم like the cattle

The God told us He made from the transgressors pigs ans and monkeys, why not believe Him ?!! and why do you start interpreting the verse??

min'humu does not mean "from" them literally i.e. no physical features were changed.

3:52 فلما so to what (when) احس perceived عىسى Isa منهم min'humu/of (about) them الكفر the disbelief
3:110  منهم min'humu/of (among) them
5:12  منهم min'humu/of (among) them
5:60 ... وجعل and made منهم min'humu/of (about) them ... devotee الطغوت the false idols
9:61 ومنهم wamin'humu/and of (among) them
15:40 منهم min'humu/of (among) them
33:13 منهم min'humu/of (among) them
38:83 منهم min'humu/of (among) them

peace -- all the best!

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

no one knows the truth except The God and verses are unserstood by  whomever The God permits to understand them if He wants to.
so the verse you are quoting applies to you as well when you give your opinion, who told you the others are wrong and you are right???

salam noon waalqalami

again, the verses you quote say "LIKE"
like cattle and like dogs

The God does not say He made the transgressor "LIKE" apes and swine !!!
HE says HE MADE apes and swine from/of the transgressors (it doesnt change anything if you translate "minhum" as  "of or from")

peace

[Noon waalqalami]

peace tutti, it is also written 31:19 واقصد and be moderate ...

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/31/vers/19?handschrift=107