God needs us and/or we need God?

[Arnold Yasin]

God is the self-sufficient, eternal, all powerful. The omnipotence of God is part of our fundamental beliefs basically,...

And just how do know all this? If God doesn't need us, then what was "HIS" purpose of sending messengers and scriptures for us to obey "HIM"?

Peace,

Yes, this is an important philosophical question. Parwez discussed this a lot in his work. In this book he gave some very intriguiging answers:

http://www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm

[Danish]

God is the self-sufficient, eternal, all powerful. The omnipotence of God is part of our fundamental beliefs basically,...

And just how do know all this? If God doesn't need us, then what was "HIS" purpose of sending messengers and scriptures for us to obey "HIM"?

Peace,

Yes, this is an important philosophical question. Parwez discussed this a lot in his work. In this book he gave some very intriguiging answers:

http://www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm

Parwez, in his introduction and first chapter, talks about stages of how man advances from primitive to current ethno-socio cultural upbringing by natural scientific measures, briefing tit-bits on idolworshipping and mythical as well as mystical aspects of human realization to become religions and then dwells right into Quran. I've not read all the chapters and are quite lengthy, but his general view is based upon Quran's divine adaptations. That does not answer my concerns.

[Danish]

Peace be upon you,

God DOES need man, just not the individual. What I mean is that we SERVE the God as vehicles for his attributes to come into the world. But we say the God does not need because wether it is you or I or someone else, the God WILL manifest. Thats why we can say that the God does not need. So to put it more clearly, the God USES man, but does not need anyone in particular.

Hello Kyle,

Sorry bro, I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Perhaps you're mixing the relative terms (God does need or doesn't) together with God USES and not sure how exactly all this fits in. Either way, please be a little clear and show us where you get "HIS" attributes from? Can you give us a few examples of God's attributes being authenticated? Thanks.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you Danish,

Sorry bro, I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Perhaps you're mixing the relative terms (God does need or doesn't) together with God USES and not sure how exactly all this fits in. Either way, please be a little clear and show us where you get "HIS" attributes from? Can you give us a few examples of God's attributes being authenticated? Thanks.

Lets take the attribute Of God "Forgiver". We aremade according to the God's pattern. Therefore "the forgiver" is within us, waiting to be manifested. When we become forgiving, the God uses us to express "Its" forgiveness. So the God "needs" man because we(jinn and insaan) SERVE The God. However, we cant say that teh God "needs" any particular person because if you or I dont manifest that forgiveness, another person will step to the occasion. There is a verse that says something to the effedct that if we do not do what we are suppossed to, then the God will create another who WILL. I hope whoever remembers can provide this verse for me.

We are mental creations of God, just as we have our own mental creations. Just as easy as we imagine a certain image, we can erase it and have a new one with hardly any effort.

[Samia]

4:133

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you Samia,

Thanks for the quick response. I was actually thinking of another verse, but this one is more direct and to the point, thank you.

(4:133) If He wills/wants He makes you go away, you the people, and He comes with others, and The God was/is on that capable/able.

(Free Minds)  O you people, if He wills, He could make all of you cease to exist; then He would bring others in your place. God is most capable to do this.

[zenje]

There is a verse that says something to the effedct that if we do not do what we are suppossed to, then the God will create another who WILL. I hope whoever remembers can provide this verse for me.

Not sure if you meant this...
9:38.   O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told: ?March forth in the cause of God,? you become heavy on Earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing.
9:39.   If you do not march forth, then He will punish you with a painful retribution, and He will replace you with another people, and you do not bother Him in the least. God is capable of all things.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you Zenje,

I dont think that was the verse I was thinking of either, but it also fits the understanidng I am trying to share. Thank you.

This shows that the God has stold us repeatedly that "IT" Needs man, but doesnt NEED any one in particular. I hope I am making sense. I am not trying to paint the picture of a "god" that is worried that it wont manifest in teh physical world, It KNOWS it will and is at perfect PEACE.

[Danish]

Sorry bro, I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Perhaps you're mixing the relative terms (God does need or doesn't) together with God USES and not sure how exactly all this fits in. Either way, please be a little clear and show us where you get "HIS" attributes from? Can you give us a few examples of God's attributes being authenticated? Thanks.

Lets take the attribute Of God "Forgiver". We aremade according to the God's pattern. Therefore "the forgiver" is within us, waiting to be manifested. When we become forgiving, the God uses us to express "Its" forgiveness. So the God "needs" man because we(jinn and insaan) SERVE The God. However, we cant say that teh God "needs" any particular person because if you or I dont manifest that forgiveness, another person will step to the occasion. There is a verse that says something to the effedct that if we do not do what we are suppossed to, then the God will create another who WILL. I hope whoever remembers can provide this verse for me.

We are mental creations of God, just as we have our own mental creations. Just as easy as we imagine a certain image, we can erase it and have a new one with hardly any effort.

Kyle, our "maker" (GOD) is beyond our perception and UNSEEN and UNKNOWN. Anything and everything to do with GOD are deliberations of our own imagination. The attributes assigned to this GOD are the figments of our imagination, a hypothetical or an extraordinary perception. According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.

In primeval and midieval ages, man-made gods were common practices for simplistic and unrealistic social upbringing and continues its veneration to this day. Everything has always been a human affair and since generations, man has advanced and excelled through knowledge, intelligence and science directly related to nature/reality, and continues to do so.

The attributes, such as forgiving yet unforgiving, merciful yet merciless, present yet absent, knowing yet unknowing and so forth, all of which are extraordinarily assigned to gods and godesses which stems out of behavioural patterns and mindsets. There are not only humans as lords, gods and godesses, but all sorts of animals (birds as winged animals, two-headed beasts, cats, reptiles, etc.) and celestial bodies (sun, moon, stars, meteorites) as well, including fire, water and wind to assimilate, osmose and acclimatize the upright and evil, good and bad, wrong and right, construction and destruction, preservation and neglect, creation and annihilation, etcetera, etcetera, and therefore the attributes. It is due to these natural phenomenon and SIGNS of REALITY which gave man an upperhand to become dignified and somber in manner and character. BUT, Today, man has reached such higher levels of sophistication so as to compromise its very own living standards and existence in an extremely unusual and unbalanced systems yet can bring about death and destruction instantaneouly.

[idolfree1]

Peace be upon you,

Kyle, our "maker" (GOD) is beyond our perception and UNSEEN and UNKNOWN.

Agreed.

Anything and everything to do with GOD are deliberations of our own imagination.

I disagree. Man is made according to the pattern of the God. The God is the CORE of Being. When we "know ourselves" we come to know The God. Thats how this all began.

The attributes assigned to this GOD are the figments of our imagination, a hypothetical or an extraordinary perception. According to Quran, the Allah is a male deity addressed by HE, HIM and HIS. This is also true for all other male gods and the same shared attributes are true for all female gods addressed as SHE and HER, outside the scope of this alleged divine book.

I disagree, I am told that "he" is used because there is no word for nueter gender in Arabic. Regarding other cultures, Khamit does not specify male nor female "gods". Only male and female energies that manifest from "NebErtcher" (Lord of All) that is above male and female distinction. I try not to write "He" anduse "IT".

In primeval and midieval ages, man-made gods were common practices for simplistic and unrealistic social upbringing and continues its veneration to this day. Everything has always been a human affair and since generations, man has advanced and excelled through knowledge, intelligence and science directly related to nature/reality, and continues to do so.

I am not sure I grasped what you were trying to say here so I will not comment.

The attributes, such as forgiving yet unforgiving, merciful yet merciless, present yet absent, knowing yet unknowing and so forth, all of which are extraordinarily assigned to godsand godesses which stems out of behavioural patterns and mindsets. There are not only humans as lords, gods and godesses, but all sorts of animals (birds as winged animals, two-headed beasts, cats, reptiles, etc.) and celestial bodies (sun, moon, stars, meteorites) as well, including fire, water and wind to assimilate, osmose and acclimatize the upright and evil, good and bad, wrong and right, construction and destruction, preservation and neglect, creation and annihilation, etcetera, etcetera, and therefore the attributes. It is due to these natural phenomenon and SIGNS of REALITY which gave man an upperhand to become dignified and somber in manner and character. BUT, Today, man has reached such higher levels of sophistication so as to compromise its very own living standards and existence in an extremely unusual and unbalanced systems yet can bring about death and destruction instantaneouly.

I am having a hard time understanding your point. The planets are used to symbolize energies in the universe that effect us. The part man part animals symbolized the divine and animal natures of man and how we must transcend the animal nature. They were not "gods", just ways to help people learn. At least this was the way of Khemet, were all came to learn.

Please give me a clear example of what you are stating so I can be clear.