Author Topic: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem  (Read 9186 times)

reel

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2014, 02:06:31 PM »
Quote
False. See here for video.

Umm, they were doing the circling thing bro. The angle of the camera makes it look like they are on the top of the kabah. Look at it again.

Kabah was damaged by flood water. Qurayshis didnt have enough fund to put it back to rectangular shape. So ended up shrinking its size, turning it into a cube. But again, history says it was renovated too many times. Who made it is debatable. But Quran says Allah guided Prophet Ibrahim to construct it in that exact place.  Traditionalists like to believe it was built by Prophet Adam. It has no foundation in Quran. Western historians like to claim it was made for pagan deities first.



"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Wakas

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2014, 03:12:11 PM »
Umm, they were doing the circling thing bro. The angle of the camera makes it look like they are on the top of the kabah. Look at it again.

I have watched it several times. It seems blatantly obvious to me that roughly the same amount are flying in arcs (it's difficult to pick out one bird that did a complete circle) and others are flying from one side to another, from almost all directions, sometimes opposite directions.

You make some more false statements:

Quote
Qurayshis didnt have enough fund to put it back to rectangular shape. So ended up shrinking its size, turning it into a cube.

False. It is not a cube, it is a cuboid.

Also, what evidence are you referring to about Quraysh funding?

Quote
But Quran says Allah guided Prophet Ibrahim to construct it in that exact place.

False. Actually, the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah".


The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Man of Faith

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2014, 11:15:25 PM »
The building in Mecca was a generic church-like building in the past. Its arch-shaped foundation which originally hosted a wall is aligned towards Sinai alternatively Jerusalem.

A building should never be walked around performing Pagan rituals and revered for this is in violation of the spiritual law of Moses making it an idol. A temple is supposed to be used inside as a place to go and grow spiritually.

Have faith
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reel

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2014, 02:06:10 PM »
Quote
I have watched it several times. It seems blatantly obvious to me that roughly the same amount are flying in arcs (it's difficult to pick out one bird that did a complete circle) and others are flying from one side to another, from almost all directions, sometimes opposite directions.

You make some more false statements:
I don't see them fly over. I am looking for additional videos, but people just leave the angle of the camera towards the sky for which Kabah's part isnt showing up in them. Once I get a clear picture, I will believe it.

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Qurayshis didnt have enough fund to put it back to rectangular shape. So ended up shrinking its size, turning it into a cube.
Typo there, cuboid, not cube.

Quote
Also, what evidence are you referring to about Quraysh funding?
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14305.165;wap2


Quote
False. Actually, the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah".

And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]." 2:125

And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.2:127

Example of foundation of a house (technical word of architects)



And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate. 22:26

And proclaim to the people the Hajj [pilgrimage]; they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every distant pass -22:27

Then let them end their untidiness and fulfill their vows and perform Tawaf around the ancient House."22:29

There is an entire Surah called Hajj which mentions ancient house on and on.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Man of Faith

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2014, 10:41:04 PM »
Harmony reel,

Those passages do not mention any physical house. The word used does not mean house but assembly. It is ignorant people who interpreted it in the beginning. It is supposed to say Abraham laid the foundation of the first assembly, and prayed for the land to be a one of affinity.

People who read them are merely beguiled.

Sources I know indicate that Solomon built the first temple.

Have faith
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Wakas

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2014, 01:29:26 AM »

There is an entire Surah called Hajj which mentions ancient house on and on.

That may well be, but I hope you realise the seemingly small but important point I am making, which was: "...the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah"."

As I said:

The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.

For my view:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

One of the interesting findings was how the Quranic evidence suggests "al bayt" (the shelter) can be a reference to a safe locality*. Much to my surprise, a good explanation for some of the traditions. What I have noticed is that generally speaking the traditions are a mix of truth and falsehood, but that does not mean everything in them is false. We can use The Quran as our criterion to determine which is which.

*Abraham brought such a place to fruition, hence us being recommended to follow his blueprint, or in Quran parlance "...take from the status (maqam) of Abraham a time/place of blessing (musalla)..." [2:125]






All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

hawk99

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2014, 04:25:36 AM »
Peace,

So is there such a thing as Hajj?



If there is Hajj where is it to be held?



God bless



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good logic

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2014, 05:33:22 AM »
Peace Hawk.

A good question!

However , we humans have all sorts of weird and wonderful answers according to our weird and wonderful opinions/beliefs/lack of them...etc?

That is why GOD sends messengers!!!!!!

And we also have the choice to follow GOD and His messenger or "others"?

GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Man of Faith

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2014, 07:47:25 AM »
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That is why GOD sends messengers!!!!!!

And if people could just stop perverting information and fabricating what is not true, then those messengers who were would have been enough who already were.

But the truth is quite much easier than people want to make it. You have the old Guidelines of Moses yes? And you may have heard what Jesus had to say about them? And you have understood the parables of gaining affinity with Allah and the realm?

In case you do, then you need no additional messenger.

Have faith
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hawk99

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2014, 08:56:50 AM »
And if people could just stop perverting information and fabricating what is not true, then those messengers who were would have been enough who already were.


But people do pervert/fabricate/misunderstand, hence the need for explaining,
like we are doing now!

God bless

   :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden