Messages

Salaamun alaikum Mustafa,

mquran, I agree with you 100%. That's what I meant to say, that the things that will save us from hell are basic, not the widespread knowledge of the history. I agree with you, follow the true Islam, be nice to everyone, not only to Muslims. I am sure you and me are following the True Islam, because we are doing the basic things that will save us from the Hell-Fire, Inshallah!

Insha Allah.

mquran, Thanks A Lot!!! for all of your help. You were the only person that actually made sense to me. The first reason is basically the fact that you didn't disrespect the Hadith or try to take apart the Hadith books but instead you told me your part without disrespecting anyone or any book. That for one, was the right way, which is the proper, decent, Islamic way. That's how the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and his companions used to spread Islam, instead of finding mistakes in the Bible, they read out the verses from the Qur'an. As far as I can understand, your approach is that you are not completely denying the Prophet's Hadith

You're welcome. I must admit, I did enough hadith criticism and bashing in my day. However, at this point, I find just concentrating on Al-Quraan would deneccistate bashing other texts.

In conclusion, I humbly ask you to focus on Al-Quraan as if Allah had revealed it unto you today. Al-Quraan is a living revelation with an organic system of imposing meaning unto its text. By all means, read other books but never let them corrupt, let alone override the world-view Al-Quraan builds. Al-Quraan is a map, you may traverse the journey without a map or with fragmented maps and still get there but why do that when you can have the map build by the One who made the territory!

shukran wa salam.

Danish:I haven't forgotten your good post above and will get to it in time. Thanks

Nadeem, don't hold your breath. Like Enquirer, Danish - when he recognises that you've asked questions his worm-brain can't comprehend - will retreat quickly and pretend to forget. You've got a loooong wait ahead, Nadeem.

Danish:If it wasn't for the research already done, I wouldn't have provided you with the link (and other links within it) where members debated this issue. Besides, I doubt that you read or understood it thoroughly. Anyhow, here are some points to ponder and do your own research:

This pendu seldom fails to make me laugh. He calls something 'research' because he reads about it. It never occurs to him that 'research' is something questionable. He only questions AQ due to his self-hate which makes him a biased fool.

Absolutely. The ONLY way you and your ilks like Ahmed can win over my criticisms is by abuse, threats and condemnation. A typical nature anchored in your brains. And that's how Islam began. Study the Quran's historicity and then read and understand it thoroughly. It is neither divine nor for all times. PERIOD.

The fact that an abusive yet cowardly moron like you says that about AQ only proves AQ's divine nature. It wasn't meant to be understood by people with dung on the brains. Take a look at yourself Danish, you once told us that worshipping AQ is an obstacle to worshipping Allah and now you reject even God himself! That's a mark of what - stability? You need to be committed...and FAST.

Danish:You are not worth it as already witnessed and proven several times in the past and as recent as seen on this thread itself. Any discussion with a madman, an insane ayatullah (aka prophet of doom) is impossible.

Lol, I thought so. Tell you what, if the moderators pronounce me unfit for discussion then *I* will leave. How bout that ? I'm more than happy to put my membership on the line because I'm confident in AQ. If you're confident in yourself, what's the problem?

Thanx A lot for your civilized replies, instead of condemning me, you are trying to help me, and I appreciate it. You guys are right that little knowledge can be dangerous, but I am mostly interested in the Fundamentals of your religion.

Well you're not going to find AQ going 'chapter 1 : fundamentals of your religion'. AQ must be taken holistically. There are a few ayat which implies fundamentals of ad-deen:

1. 107/1-3 : People who belie ad-deen are those who turn away the orphans and refuse to feed the poor.

2. 2/62 : Those who believe in Allah and the last day, on them shall be no fear nor grief.

I am aware of all the hadith's narrations that are done by people like Abu Haraira, who travelled over most of Arabia, and the accounts are from the people that knew Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and witnessed it with their own eyes.

That's the claim yes, but is it Quranically verifiable. 9/101 tells us that The Prophet never knew who the hypocrites were.

I understand that religion is just a belief. And all of the people that are here are just the people who always asked "why?" and sometimes just answered to ourselves, don't ask too many questions about your religion. But we all wanted to know, Why should we choose Islam?

You're a brave person for asking. I salute you for it. As for those who do not ask, Allah will ask them (17/36).

Maybe because we were different than the average muslim, we did so. Therefore, I decided that there's a chance for me to choose this Qur'an Alone approach!

Sir, there's no such thing as 'the average muslim'. You're either a muslim (by serving God's laws) or you're not.

3. Mquran, your post was also a great help, thanks a lot. I quote what you have written: " After all, leaving a socio-historical grouping like the muslims can be momentous. But leaving them, I have rejoined humanity AND ..." After the "AND" there is a problem.

After the 'and', I wrote 'allowed AQ to operate how its meant to operate. Reading AQ on its own terms is like diving into an ocean of knowledge, pardon my platitude. I ask you sir to give AQ a chance to speak for itself without Rashad before you decide.

Mustafa, you seem to be a sincere fellow about ad-deen, so why would you have a problem with this? AQ is the most underemphasised source in the 'Islamic' faith, having being turned into a songbook. The few brave Muslim scholars who have dared to explore AQ on its own (like Maududi, Islahi, Muhammad Al-Ghazali) have been severly shackled due to sunnah constraints when imposing meaning on words.

My suggestion : Go to www.the-quran.org . See the lecture on 'What AQ says about Allah and Aaliha'. You will then see how immediate AQ is to our lives.

MY CONCLUSION: Qur'an Alone is the truth, but "Qur'an Alone" as a religion isn't. You all seem to be like me, disagreeing with the Sunni and Shi'a beliefs of having sects in Islam, you wanted to leave, just like me, but instead you have ended up in a wrong place. Removing the Ayat and all is a problem itself.

2 things:

1. I'm not a 19er and have never been one.

2. I didn't leave because I was fed up of sectarianism. I never had a problem with that because I believe that the Islam I followed was complete. What compelled me to leave was the collapsibility of 'Islam' when challenged by the mechanism of internal contradiction and the fact that AQ proposes a whole other religion than what Muslims practise.

Leaving a Sect, you have joined another sect for no reason at all.

Once again, wrong. I am now part of humanity with only one qualification. Bad Guys aren't welcome.

I no longer say 'ah , salaam brother' to every guy named Mohamed or girl named Fatima. I say 'salaam' to EVERYONE unless he's blatantly attacking me.

Contradicting your beliefs, and that doesn't take place in Islam. If you want to leave the groups, don't join another, be an independent muslim. If you are independent, and you choose to have a Prophet as your leader, why let others decide for you, once again, you haven't gained anything, but actually lost your old sect and now you have lost your belief. There are Hadith that are categorized as the ones that can be recognized with the Holy Qur'an. The other two types are the ones that are actual Historical Events and the other ones cannot be recognized with history or the Qur'an.

There comes a point when hadith, sects and recognition is no longer an issue. What's important is : Am I A Good Guy ? Do I Strive HARD against At-Taghoot. These are things which will save you from hell.

Missed my entire post again. Just can't take the heat

Really?

Well, if you feel so,  ask the moderators to moderate a debate on this issue and if you're proven wrong BY THEM, kindly take your pendu self out of here. I will now see if you have the guts to take this challenge.

Salaamun alaikum Mustafa,

I am a Muslim by birth and by choice. I am not a person who follows a religion just because "someone" told them, for example close family and relatives like Parents, Grandparents. I am going to use my real name and be truthful to everyone because I am here to gain something, in a proper way. I have been a Sunni by birth. I studied the differences between the Sunni and Shi'a religion and what the other religions have to say about the differences. So far the only decision I have come up with is that I want to be "only" Muslim. That led me to this forum. I have many questions and concerns that I would like to clear up but the main one is about Mr. Rashad Khalifa claiming to be a prophet. I would like for the members to find time to prove to me that I should choose to be a "Submitter", or as be like you all, "a hadith-free muslim".

I don't follow Mr Rashad Khalifa, I follow only Al-Quraan (AQ) as my source of absolute information. A 'hadith-free muslim' is a redundant term. A muslim's criteria has nothing to do with sources of information.

1. Why should I believe Mr. Rashad Khalifa claims of being a prophet?

You shouldn't. I don't.

2:  So according to you, the Qur'an has to work because of the mathematical sense and not the logical, everyday, common sense?

AQ works because its a constant mapping of the signs on the horizon and in yourself (41/53). The 'mathematical sense' has no sense to me.

3: From what I know, the message is more important to the free-thinkers rather than the messenger. True, I agree 100%, this theory will put me under the category of free-thinkers. If it's okay to follow the teachings and good-deeds of great and successful people (non-Prophets). We obviously do that because, if they were successful by adapting certain things that they did, we might be able to get success in life as well. Considering that, what's wrong with following our Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W)? Is it wrong to follow the Hadith (i.e. sayings of the Prophet S.A.W)? Is it wrong according to the progressive Islam?

Good point. So judge what you read according to merit. Let AQ provide your permanent, unchanging source of information and whatever else you read provide your temporal source.

My Final Question: WHY?

I've asked myself that before. After all, leaving a socio-historical grouping like the muslims can be momentous. But leaving them, I have rejoined humanity AND allowed AQ to operate how its meant to operate. Reading AQ on its own terms is like diving into an ocean of knowledge, pardon my platitude. I ask you sir to give AQ a chance to speak for itself without Rashad before you decide.

Danish:Brilliant. WOW! Reader must not worry about other soldiers but Firaun ONLY just because of 10:90-92 while forgetting 7:136, 17:103, 28:40, 43:55 and others. WHY and SAYS WHO? Was Firaun DROWNED or PRESERVED or both along with his soldiers? How and by whom? Have archeologists found this specific Firaun? Do you know anything about mummification and have you studied its histroicity, its science and the link I provided or are you simply venting your useless mind out over and over again? Besides, the verses are once again purely inconsistent and contradictory and you are trying extremely hard to defend it but you CANNOT

I can see why you've resisted discussion for so long. You're even worse than ol Enquirer!

The author of AQ tells the reader what to focus on. Deal with it.

And, sad to say, the moron that you are, you cannot understand what AB was trying to tell you from the start:

Dead bodies don't drown. Living people drown. When they drown, its possible that their BODIES (no longer living, let me spell it out for you) are preserved.

I'm not interested in your links because I don't trust miscreant paindoos like you. I trust people who show veracity and you haven't done so, not being able to verify something immediate like 'the fear of allah is realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect'.

The perverse fantasies of kaba and the fecal-level poetry are your keepsake, not mine. I deserted your wonderland a long time ago

So why did you defecate the Dung Sura of yours ? People who defecate like you must have only 'defecations' on the brain.

What a devilish twister? He ignores my response to his "evidence" (which was put to shame) and now starts tickling 10:90 instead of 10:92 and forgets about all other verses pertaining to Firaoun which explicity mentions about drowning both Firaoun and his people. What a pathetic joke you are? Even 10:90 talks about drowning not only Firaoun but his people as well and as per all other verses throughout the Qruan. I guess your "Allah" broke loose out your locked up kaba and flew down into the sea at lightning speed, dug Firaoun out, mustered him up and mummified him for future generation. Later, as "He" forgot about the rest, so "He" goes back to do the same thing with all others. As I said, you are nothing less than a madman, an insane ayatullah (aka 'the prophet of doom').

Before I go on , Danish, let me first thank you for not calling yourself a Muslim. Islam has already to put up with evil lunatics, but at least with you leaving the idiot element has one less to worry about.

We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to God in Islam)." (10/90)

Note : Firaun and his jund were following yes, but when the flood was being talked about, the phrase is 'idhaa adrakaHU al-gharaq' (when HE was overwhelmed by the flood). So, the reader doesn't need to worry about each soldier but should focus on Firaun who is being talked about.

Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (10/91)

Note: the 'qad asaita qabl' shows that once again, the focus is on Firaun.


This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"

Note : the nunajjika bibadanika once again shows what happened to Firaun and his jund is completely forgotten.

So there's no need for your perverse fantasies about the kaaba and so on. Quit being a moron and do go learn how to read. Literacy is very important. There's no point in writing fecal-level poetry if you can't even read well.

Danish: Listen, this forum is not designed specifically for people like you either, because you promote and believe in Hislam and reject Mislam and Codelam. Most people here that I've known do not believe in the crap you believe in and have drained them out of their system (such as salat, zakat, haj, etc.), so then why don't you do yourself a favor and dwell in sunni forums if this one hurts you that bad.

This goes to show that Everwhine lacks the basic intelligence to understand something so simple.

It's not about your opinion. It's about HOW YOU PRESENT your opinion. You don't present your opinion, you come and vomit out views of people you've never read like the suralikeit where you had to pretend to have read. You never answer for your views because lets face it, you lack the intelligence to do so.

We are all here discussing this book called Quran in their own ways and by all means have the slightest decency to participate, listen and understand what everyone has to say.

Firstly, the book is called 'al-quraan', not 'quran', exposing your LACK of reading once again.

Secondly, 'slightest decency' you do NOT have. If you did, you wouldn't waste others people's time by not answering to their responses.

Your lack of character was exposed during the pork issue when you were worried that AQ wasn't catering to ppl who eat pigs. That shows your lack of integrity. You tried to pretend as if following AQ was actually abandoning God when in truth, you never believed in God at all. Just your ego.

Certainly, I can very well understand your FEAR and DISRESPECT you've shown. You could have PM'ed your silly concern to mods/admins instead of provoking others and creating a menace. Don't waste your time if you work all day long and have no time for the mess you've gotten everyone into. Learn your lessons

Fear? lol...It's really laughable. If you really think your posting invoke fear, then lets debate. I think you need to beyond your pathetic 'drowning/preserved' contradiction. Maybe we can debate your fear of God is incorrect disaster ?

The devils are erected at Mina where people like you love to visit them every now and then throwing pebbles at them and then invoke others to do the same. That's what I call the devil plot.

Yes, so chucking you down that hole would be appropriate , huh ?