A different interpretation of chapter 4:3

centi50 · February 18, 2024, 11:20:37 AM

Salam to all,

I landed into this video 4:3 not about Marriage . He came up with a different interpretation. He says that verse 4:3 is not talking about marriage at all. He also said the word نيساء women in the Quran 4:3 which has hazma ء is not in the Sana'a manuscript which is only نسا and this changes the meaning. He said this hamza was an invention by someone in the name of Farahidi.

The video is in Arabic and hope someone with Arabic knowledge can summarize his interpretation here and comment on his interpretation.

The floor is yours Arabic speakers. Help the rest understand this video.

Just a side question. In the law of inheritance those extra wives is not mentioned. Can this mean 4:3 is not about polygamy at all.

I will be following members comments😊

Emre_1974tr · February 18, 2024, 07:23:53 PM

The permission for polygamy is not based on this verse. But other verses do.

For example, the verse that says not to marry 2 sisters together says that polygamy is allowed, but marrying 2 sisters at the same time is forbidden.

If polygamy was forbidden, there would be no need for the prohibition of marrying 2 sisters.

By the way, there is no restriction of four wives. A man can marry up to fifty or more women if the women so wish or if they give permission to their husbands.

jkhan · February 18, 2024, 07:44:02 PM

Quote from: centi50 on February 18, 2024, 11:20:37 AMSalam to all,

I landed into this video 4:3 not about Marriage . He came up with a different interpretation. He says that verse 4:3 is not talking about marriage at all. He also said the word نيساء women in the Quran 4:3 which has hazma ء is not in the Sana'a manuscript which is only نسا and this changes the meaning. He said this hamza was an invention by someone in the name of Farahidi.

The video is in Arabic and hope someone with Arabic knowledge can summarize his interpretation here and comment on his interpretation.

The floor is yours Arabic speakers. Help the rest understand this video.

Just a side question. In the law of inheritance those extra wives is not mentioned. Can this mean 4:3 is not about polygamy at all.

I will be following members comments😊

Salam Centi..

It is very difficult topic since many manipulation of Arabic words with time.. But never do what you have no knowledge of...

My understanding is in beloe link
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612270.0;all#msg441175

It's not marriage for sure...

By the way... Polygamy is allowed or not is not obvious in Quran but man can marry those MMAs.. They are not free women.. But it seems when you marry a free woman it could well and possibly one wife... Yes your concern of why no instruction for property division for more than one wife.. Cuz it could well and truly only one wife for one man..
My logical question is if polygamy is allowed while one has a free woman / wife, why divorce is required? Can't believer marry another free woman without divorcing her...?

Why to divorce a wife for her lack of comaptibility as partner while you can marry another free woman? Polygamy is a very intricate topic...i personally would never be a polygamist cuz there is no instruction in Quran to do so.. MMAs okay.. Clear instruction..

Note.. Sorry I didnt watch your video.. I have no knowledge of Arabic..

Fusion · February 23, 2024, 03:59:35 AM

While we can engage in theoretical discussions, I hold the view that Islam presents practical solutions to the myriad challenges humanity encounters. Consider a nation engulfed in war, leading to a significant loss of men and an increase of widows with orphaned children. In the absence of modern conveniences like global connectivity, marriage websites, cross-cultural unions, or online dating, what solutions are available? Certain verses might address these specific, time-bound scenarios, which might not universally apply across all eras. This raises questions about their relevance to contemporary situations, such as those experienced by people in Ukraine, Gaza, or the widows in Bosnia during wartime.
The Bosnian War, which took place between 1992 and 1995, resulted in significant human tragedy, including the loss of many lives, widespread displacement, and numerous human rights violations. One of the tragic outcomes was the large number of widows and families left without male providers due to the mass killings. The war deeply impacted the demographic and social structure of Bosnia and Herzegovina, leading to a substantial increase in the number of households headed by women.
The aftermath of the war saw many widowed women struggling with the loss of their spouses, trauma from the war, and the challenge of rebuilding their lives in a post-conflict society. These women often faced economic hardships, social isolation, and the daunting task of raising children on their own in a country struggling to recover from the destruction of war.
Regarding marriage dynamics post-war, there were indeed reports and observations that some men took multiple wives in the years following the conflict. This was partly attributed to the skewed gender ratios resulting from the war, as well as the desire to rebuild the Muslim community in the aftermath of the genocide.
I tend to shift towards GA Pervaiz translation of verse 4:3

https://www.parwez.tv/abid/mufhoom_1/by_G_A_parwez/s4.htm
But the problem of orphans (or those left alone in the society) is not solved simply by taking care of their property – it has other implications as well. For instance, if a situation arises, out of a war or otherwise – where a large number of men die, leaving behind widows and orphans, or you have a large number of marriageable women who cannot find husbands (4/127) and they cannot marry outside your circle; so if you cannot find an equitable solution to this problem then permission is hereby given to you to relax the Law of monogamy and those amongst you who can afford it and can treat all justly can marry two or three or four women of their liking. But if you fear that you cannot do justice, then only one or the female captives who are already in your charge. This will relieve you from the burden of a large family.

Bajram Hoxhaj · February 25, 2024, 07:08:01 AM

Quote from: jkhan on February 18, 2024, 07:44:02 PMBy the way... Polygamy is allowed or not is not obvious in Quran

Salāmun Alaykum!

Polygamy refers to a person, whether male or female being married to multiple partners.

Polygyny specifically refers to a man being married to multiple wives at the same time.

4:23
prohibited it upon you (m/pl.) mothers yours (m/pl.) ...
and that thou assemble ye of between the sisters two ...

Quote from: jkhan on February 18, 2024, 07:44:02 PMYes your concern of why no instruction for property division for more than one wife..

4:12 and for them (f/pl.) the fourth mimmā (from what) left you (m/pl.) ...
example: 1/3 mother (4:11), 1/4 wives, 5/12 father

centi50 · February 25, 2024, 03:23:48 PM

Quote from: jkhan on February 18, 2024, 07:44:02 PMSalam Centi..

It is very difficult topic since many manipulation of Arabic words with time.. But never do what you have no knowledge of...

My understanding is in beloe link
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612270.0;all#msg441175

It's not marriage for sure...

By the way... Polygamy is allowed or not is not obvious in Quran but man can marry those MMAs.. They are not free women.. But it seems when you marry a free woman it could well and possibly one wife... Yes your concern of why no instruction for property division for more than one wife.. Cuz it could well and truly only one wife for one man..
My logical question is if polygamy is allowed while one has a free woman / wife, why divorce is required? Can't believer marry another free woman without divorcing her...?

Why to divorce a wife for her lack of comaptibility as partner while you can marry another free woman? Polygamy is a very intricate topic...i personally would never be a polygamist cuz there is no instruction in Quran to do so.. MMAs okay.. Clear instruction..

Note.. Sorry I didnt watch your video.. I have no knowledge of Arabic..

Salam Bro,

He was showing also the word Nisa'a with hamza is not in the Sana'a manuscript. Then it changes nasaa to forget I think so. Sister huruf and brother nun should summarized what was saying. I thinks it will help.

To me aslo I am not inclined to polygamy card in the Quran and i
Even if it exsist irs not to any woman but to mother's of orphans

God bless all.

Huruf, mazhar, SaraY and noon should see the vid and summarize

Bajram Hoxhaj · February 27, 2024, 01:00:12 AM

Peace,

In the video, he exhibits an ancient manuscript (4:176) where the hamza in 'ونسا' (and women) is absent, without acknowledging that markings were absent in all old manuscripts for hundreds of years. The script itself was quite rudimentary, designed solely for quick memory recall.

https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/4/verse/176/manuscripts

He seems to confuse different roots:
Nūn Sīn Wāw (ن س و) - e.g., 3:42 Nisā نِسَآء (women)
Nūn Sīn Yā (ن س ي) - e.g., 19:23 Mansīyāan مَنْسِيًّا (one forgotten)

He talks about the meanings of Rā Jīm Lām (ر ج ل):
https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rjl#(4:176:36)

Goes into 'rijāl,' are those working/providing for those who are forgotten 'nisa.'
While in context, he neglects 59 occurrences in Qur'an mean womanhood of any age.

As previously posted Qur'an doesn't prohibit polygyny except in the case of sisters.

4:3 – to provide an example (I'm still investigating this as it's my idea and observation):

When I was coaching youth soccer, my goal was to capture their attention. I would instruct the kids to quickly form pairs or twos/Mathná (masculine), and if any were standing alone, I would make them to do push-ups, etc. Subsequently, I would say, 'Get into threes/Thulātha (masculine),' and if anyone was caught not in a group, they would do sit-ups, etc. Likewise, I would instruct them to form groups of four/Rubā`a (masculine), and so on, or to form a group unified/Wāĥidatan (feminine).

Another is the meaning of 4:3 فَانْكِحُوا and 28:27 said indeed I want that أُنْكِحَكَ "betroths via work sponsorship you" one (f) daughters two mine these two on that thou work for me eight hijajin so if finishes thou ten, so up to you, and not I want that make arduous upon you, shall thou find me if wills Allah among the righteous.

centi50 · March 05, 2024, 05:41:19 AM

Quote from: jkhan on February 18, 2024, 07:44:02 PMSalam Centi..

It is very difficult topic since many manipulation of Arabic words with time.. But never do what you have no knowledge of...

My understanding is in beloe link
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612270.0;all#msg441175

It's not marriage for sure...

By the way... Polygamy is allowed or not is not obvious in Quran but man can marry those MMAs.. They are not free women.. But it seems when you marry a free woman it could well and possibly one wife... Yes your concern of why no instruction for property division for more than one wife.. Cuz it could well and truly only one wife for one man..
My logical question is if polygamy is allowed while one has a free woman / wife, why divorce is required? Can't believer marry another free woman without divorcing her...?

Why to divorce a wife for her lack of comaptibility as partner while you can marry another free woman? Polygamy is a very intricate topic...i personally would never be a polygamist cuz there is no instruction in Quran to do so.. MMAs okay.. Clear instruction..

Note.. Sorry I didnt watch your video.. I have no knowledge of Arabic..

Salam,

This is another video Of polygamy. He says the 4:3 is nito marry but to marry off

https://youtu.be/CpYOD2e-jsI

God bless

jkhan · March 05, 2024, 05:43:51 AM

Quote from: centi50 on March 05, 2024, 05:41:19 AMSalam,

This is another video Of polygamy. He says the 4:3 is nito marry but to marry off

https://youtu.be/CpYOD2e-jsI

God bless

Not marry for sure..
Not marry off = doubtful...
But surely emancipate the orphans

Bajram Hoxhaj · March 05, 2024, 03:14:46 PM

‎⁧أَنْكَحَ⁩

to marry off, to give in marriage

4:3 is similar to 28:27

‎قَالَ إِنِّي أُرِيدُ أَنْ أُنكِحَكَ إِحْدَى ابْنَتَيَّ هَاتَيْنِ عَلَى أَن تَأْجُرَنِي ثَمَانِيَ حِجَجٍ⁩

(The old man) said, "I wish to marry one of these two daughters of mine to you ...

Translation and Transliteration:

قَالَ (Qāla) - He said
إِنِّي (Innī) - Indeed, I
أُرِيدُ (Uriidu) - wish
أَنْ (An) - to
أُنكِحَكَ (Unkiḥaka) - marry you
إِحْدَى (Iḥdā) - one (feminine)
ابْنَتَيَّ (Ibnatayya) - of my daughters
هَاتَيْنِ (Hātayni) - these two
عَلَى (Alā) - on
أَن (An) - that
تَأْجُرَنِي (Ta'jurani) - you serve me
ثَمَانِيَ (Thamāniya) - eight
حِجَجٍ (Ḥijāj) - pastural migrations

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A different interpretation of chapter 4:3