:: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::

[mmkhan]

Salamun alaika,

Problem will be resolved and confusion will go away InshaAllah the moment you find time to read in some gramar book about Tanween and its divisions.

Salaaman Mazhar,

I have given references of other instances and aayaats to show how Allah used words in AlQuraan. Grammar books could be wrong and misguiding in some places as it was made later. But the Book of Allah is perfect and set patterns and designs to guide those who don't have knowledge of grammar. This is how I believe AlQuraan guides alNaas [people] as per 2:185.

Please relate your understanding with aayaats or words of AlQuraan instead of grammar, so that it will be easy for us to understand what you wanted to say.


May Allah guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

[Mazhar]

Salaaman Mazhar,

I have given references of other instances and aayaats to show how Allah used words in AlQuraan. Grammar books could be wrong and misguiding in some places as it was made later. But the Book of Allah is perfect and set patterns and designs to guide those who don't have knowledge of grammar. This is how I believe AlQuraan guides alNaas [people] as per 2:185.

Please relate your understanding with aayaats or words of AlQuraan instead of grammar, so that it will be easy for us to understand what you wanted to say.


May Allah guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

Salamun alaika,

Pl do not forget that the Arabic language was a living language when Qur'aan was revealed. Arabic language succeeds Qur'aan. And grammar is pen down for non-natives to facilitate them perceiving the text of that language.

One name is without tanween. Its pattern does not allow tanween. Tanween is a vowel-less consonant after a voweled consonant. Its presence on a Proper Noun shows that it is fully declinable. The other names you have mentioned for comparison are not fully declinable being of foreign origin.
Understanding a book of foreign language, one needs to first know the elementaries of the language in which the book is written.   

[Bender]

Salaam Bender,

I think he is referring to Ahmed because of falamma, where Eisa already told directly to Bani Israel that inni rasooluAllahi ilaikum so no need of saying falamma again .

Salaam brother,

RED: 
BLUE: is there an other falamma in the ayaat 

anyway i think i am going  with this. sorry lets concentrate (=me) on the subject.

I have not translated sihr to magic, I have just copied Sahih International translation and did not go into other details because don't want to deviate from the topic in hand.

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
Bender

[Bender]

thanks.. i never thought about that.. you are right, its in present tense not in past tense.. I stay corrected 

Salaam,

[huruf]

S

alaam huruf,

You cannot prove that Muhammad [if any, not yet confirmed] was given AlQuraan. Please quote at least a single aayat mentioning it. If AlQuraan proves that a person called Muhammad is the Prophet, we [me and other here] don't have any problem in accepting it. Why should we have any problem to accept him? But I personally don't like to search for my parents Deen into AlQuraan and satisfy myself.

I did not pretend to prove anything. But the question is the Qur'an was revealed to someone, who was that someone. As I said, I do not care whether his name is Muhammad or Valentine, but who was he. He was someody, God names many of his prophets int he Qur'an.

As to the trasnlation that you put. Fine, I do not mind either way that you translate Muhammadun as praised one or leave it as Muhammad, is he or is he not the messenger to whom the Qur'an was given to transmit?


Now lets see how the aayat quoted above with the word Muhammadun can be translated, inshaAllah.

33:40 مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّ‌سُولَ اللَّـهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا
33:40 Praised one is not the father of any of your men, but is Allah?s Messenger and holding the Seal of Prophets. And Allah has indeed full knowledge of everything.

Please click here to see other translations of 33:40.

This aayat might be a criterion to recognize Allah's Messenger. Not sure though, Allah knows best. If you notice it says رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ means of your men. If this aayat is referring to Muhammad who lived 1400 years back, then how Allah relates it to us by saying Muhammed is not the father of any of YOUR men?


Yes I notice what it says, but then to which presente day Prophet is God referring to if you say that God in that aya is addressing us? Who is that prophet of nowadays, acording to you, who is that khatam annabiyin that you say has to be of today because God is addressing us and therefore could not be of whatever number of years ago?

خَاتَمَ does not mean end, but it is like a certificate or degree or seal confirming him of Prophets. If you take it end or final then please take a look at the following aayaats.

2:6 اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا سَوَآءٌ عَلَیۡہِمۡ ءَاَنۡذَرۡتَہُمۡ اَمۡ لَمۡ تُنۡذِرۡہُمۡ لَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ
2:6 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

2:7 خَتَمَ اللّٰہُ عَلٰی قُلُوۡبِہِمۡ وَ عَلٰی سَمۡعِہِمۡ ؕ وَ عَلٰۤی اَبۡصَارِہِمۡ غِشَاوَۃٌ ۫ وَّ لَہُمۡ عَذَابٌ عَظِیۡمٌ[/color]
2:7 Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Please click here to see other translations for 2:6 and click here to see 2:7.

خَتَمَ is used to seal upon the hearts of kafirs.

4:137 اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا ثُمَّ کَفَرُوۡا ثُمَّ اٰمَنُوۡا ثُمَّ کَفَرُوۡا ثُمَّ ازۡدَادُوۡا کُفۡرًا لَّمۡ یَکُنِ اللّٰہُ لِیَغۡفِرَ لَہُمۡ وَ لَا لِیَہۡدِیَہُمۡ سَبِیۡلًا [/color]
4:137 Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way.

Please click here to see other translations for 4:137.

Once those who disbelieved or became kafir how can they believe again when already their hearts has been sealed as per 2:7? This clearly shows that خَتَمَ does not refers to end or finalizing but it simply means to show authorization.

Finally please check carefully 4:155

4:155 فَبِمَا نَقۡضِہِمۡ مِّیۡثَاقَہُمۡ وَ کُفۡرِہِمۡ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ وَ قَتۡلِہِمُ الۡاَنۡۢبِیَآءَ بِغَیۡرِ حَقٍّ وَّ قَوۡلِہِمۡ قُلُوۡبُنَا غُلۡفٌ ؕ بَلۡ طَبَعَ اللّٰہُ عَلَیۡہَا بِکُفۡرِہِمۡ فَلَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ اِلَّا قَلِیۡلًا
4:155 And for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of Allah and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

طَبَعَ also sealed? Please click here to see other translations or 4:155.


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

All this is well and good, but I can0t see why you are addressing all that o me. You must be thinking of somebody else, because I have not at all stated that Muhammad or whoever you say the Qur'an was revealed to was the end of pophets or anything like that.

You answer things I have not brought up and you do not answer the questions I have in fact asked, namely,

To whom was the Qur'an revealed and was charged with transmiting. Does que Qur'an itself adress that person or talk about him?

Salaam

[huruf]

I noticed too late that my previous message was quite messy with quotes and answers. I will try to put it anew clearly. The quotes are from brother MMkhan:

alaam huruf,

You cannot prove that Muhammad [if any, not yet confirmed] was given AlQuraan. Please quote at least a single aayat mentioning it. If AlQuraan proves that a person called Muhammad is the Prophet, we [me and other here] don't have any problem in accepting it. Why should we have any problem to accept him? But I personally don't like to search for my parents Deen into AlQuraan and satisfy myself.

I did not pretend to prove anything. But the question is the Qur'an was revealed to someone, who was that someone? As I said, I do not care whether his name is Muhammad or Valentine, but who was he. He was somebody, God names many of his prophets int he Qur'an, why shouldn't He name the person who is being charged with the Qur'an?

As to the trasnlation that you put, fine, I do not mind either way that you translate Muhammadun as praised one or leave it as Muhammadun, the question is he or is he not the messenger to whom the Qur'an was given to transmit?

Now lets see how the aayat quoted above with the word Muhammadun can be translated, inshaAllah.

33:40 مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّ‌سُولَ اللَّـهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا
33:40 Praised one is not the father of any of your men, but is Allah?s Messenger and holding the Seal of Prophets. And Allah has indeed full knowledge of everything.

Please click here to see other translations of 33:40.

This aayat might be a criterion to recognize Allah's Messenger. Not sure though, Allah knows best. If you notice it says رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ means of your men. If this aayat is referring to Muhammad who lived 1400 years back, then how Allah relates it to us by saying Muhammed is not the father of any of YOUR men?

Yes I notice what it says, but then to which present day prophet is God referring to if you say that God in that aya is addressing us? Who is that prophet of nowadays, acording to you, who is khatam annabiyin that you say has to be of today because God is addressing us and therefore could not be of whatever number of years ago?

خَاتَمَ does not mean end, but it is like a certificate or degree or seal confirming him of Prophets. If you take it end or final then please take a look at the following aayaats.

        2:6 اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا سَوَآءٌ عَلَیۡہِمۡ ءَاَنۡذَرۡتَہُمۡ اَمۡ لَمۡ تُنۡذِرۡہُمۡ لَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ
        2:6 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

        2:7 خَتَمَ اللّٰہُ عَلٰی قُلُوۡبِہِمۡ وَ عَلٰی سَمۡعِہِمۡ ؕ وَ عَلٰۤی اَبۡصَارِہِمۡ غِشَاوَۃٌ ۫ وَّ لَہُمۡ عَذَابٌ عَظِیۡمٌ[/color]
        2:7 Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

        Please click here to see other translations for 2:6 and click here to see 2:7.

        خَتَمَ is used to seal upon the hearts of kafirs.

        4:137 اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا ثُمَّ کَفَرُوۡا ثُمَّ اٰمَنُوۡا ثُمَّ کَفَرُوۡا ثُمَّ ازۡدَادُوۡا کُفۡرًا لَّمۡ یَکُنِ اللّٰہُ لِیَغۡفِرَ لَہُمۡ وَ لَا لِیَہۡدِیَہُمۡ سَبِیۡلًا [/color]
        4:137 Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way.

        Please click here to see other translations for 4:137.

        Once those who disbelieved or became kafir how can they believe again when already their hearts has been sealed as per 2:7? This clearly shows that خَتَمَ does not refers to end or finalizing but it simply means to show authorization.

        Finally please check carefully 4:155

        4:155 فَبِمَا نَقۡضِہِمۡ مِّیۡثَاقَہُمۡ وَ کُفۡرِہِمۡ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ وَ قَتۡلِہِمُ الۡاَنۡۢبِیَآءَ بِغَیۡرِ حَقٍّ وَّ قَوۡلِہِمۡ قُلُوۡبُنَا غُلۡفٌ ؕ بَلۡ طَبَعَ اللّٰہُ عَلَیۡہَا بِکُفۡرِہِمۡ فَلَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ اِلَّا قَلِیۡلًا
        4:155 And for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of Allah and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

        طَبَعَ also sealed? Please click here to see other translations or 4:155.


        May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
        mmKhan

All this is well and good, but I cannot see why you are addressing all this to me. You must be thinking of somebody else, because I have not at all stated that Muhammad or whoever you say the Qur'an was revealed to was the end of prophets or anything like that.

You answer things I have not brought up and you do not answer the questions I have in fact asked, namely:

To whom was the Qur'an revealed and was also charged with transmiting it. Does que Qur'an itself adress that person or talk about him?

Salaam

[mirjamnur]

Salam
interesting article about this matter i found
http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/Ahmad.pdf
the author refers to various issues and allegations that were made ​​on this topic. He looks - in contrast to the discussion here-at the former scriptures and lets stand the ism as name.
I also think that Muhammad can be understood as an adjective, but also as a possible name. Because, as others have noted, it is clear that the Koran was revealed to an apostle, a messenger, how he has now been called, is actually secondary.
Salam

[MASOOMboy]

Peace Brother MMK,

2: 144 [AND MUHAMMAD is only an apostle; all the [other] apostles have passed away before him: if, then, he dies or is slain, will you turn about on your heels? But he that turns about on his heels can in no wise harm God - whereas God will requite all who are grateful [to Him]. ] Mohammed Asad

Kindly explain your theory with respect to the above ayat.

regards,

[noshirk]

so Quran would be the sihr/magic.
it is not over for me

I did not understand this part. Can you please elaborate more. Thanks!

Salaam mmkhan
to elaborate, i will give an oriented traduction of verses

61:6 And when Issa, son of Mary, said: �O children of Israel, I am a messenger of God to you, authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be AHMADU. But when AHMADU came many centuries after and when AHMADU showed them the Quran  as clear proofs, they said: �This Quran is clearly Sihr/magic�
61:7 And who is more evil than he who invents lies about God, while he is being invited to submission? And God does not guide the wicked people.
61:8 They want to extinguish the light of God, the Quran brought by AHMADU, with their mouths. But God will continue with His light, even if the rejecters hate it.
61:9 He is the One who sent AHMADU as messenger with the guidance and the true system, at the top of all the religion of GOD, Wich is Millat Ibrahim, as Teached in the real torah and in the real injeel, even if the polytheists hate it.

Peace

[noshirk]

Please mmkhan

I ask for your help on this thread
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604389.0

you seem to be a better linguist than me.
I want to know your opinion on the meaning of word Rabb

Peace