:: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::

[mmkhan]

Salaam brother,


I think I see brackets   


I am still not sure to who the "he" is referring. Is it to Ahmed or Isa 

a request, please don't translate sihr with magic.

Salaam,
Bender

Salaam Bender,

I think he is referring to Ahmed because of falamma, where Eisa already told directly to Bani Israel that inni rasooluAllahi ilaikum so no need of saying falamma again.

I have not translated sihr to magic, I have just copied Sahih International translation and did not go into other details because don't want to deviate from the topic in hand.


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

[Indelwyn]

Wow. Very interesting. I have some stuff to look into.

Thanks mmkhan, I truly love your posts!!

[mmkhan]

Salaam
very interesting post
according to 61-6, it seems as if the name of the nabi was Ahmedou and was changed later to Muhammad, by dummy scholars..
Peace

Salaam noshirk,

Thank you for your kind words. As we discussed in other replies, Ahmedu chapter is already over.


May Allah bless you and increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

[mmkhan]

Wow. Very interesting. I have some stuff to look into.

Thanks mmkhan, I truly love your posts!!

Salaam Indelwyn,

You are welcome and I am glad to know that you love my posts. 


May Allah bless you and increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

[huruf]

I can't see why doubt the exisence of the prophet to whom the Qur'an was revealed. I do not care what his name was or whether it was Ahmed or Muhammad or whatever. We do not strain at things being revealed to Musa, to 3isa or to any previous prophet mentionned int he Qur'an. It would be strange and contradictory that the Qur'an landed in our hands without ever there having been a prophet who received it and handed down.

I feel that there is too much obssession of hadiths and hadithists to the point of wanting to reflect our dislike for hadithism on the very person of the prophet who received the Qur'an. However, the feat of handing down the seal of prophecy should, I think elicit some thought of his significance, even if hadithists say nonsense about him. Musa did not hand down something equivalent to the Qur'an that has been preserved in its integrity uncorrupted, so why should we have the highest regard for Musa, but grudge Muhammad, or whatever the name, our consideration?

I think that all prophets should be considered as a unity, the riyalullah, and not grudge them our acknowledgement.

So, who is being called in the Qur'an khatam annabiyin? If the prophet to whom the Qur'an was revealed is not Muhammadun, who is khatam annabiyin?

"33.40  مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّ‌سُولَ اللَّـهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا

33.40 Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but is God?s Apostle and the Seal of all Prophets. And God has indeed full knowledge of everything."

Who is this person who is not the father of any of the "riyal" of those these words are addressed to?

I can't but feel that, indeed, the prophet to whom descended de Qur'an was Muhammadun, by name or by condition", and that he is the khatam an-nabiyin, which besides, confirms (the khatam) the essencial unity of prophethood and and all prophets.

Salaam

[Maha]

Salaam sister,

The verse 66:1 is talking directly to the nabi at this moment, not a nabi from the past.

It's exactly the same as for example:
5:51 "... يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا "
or
10:23 "...  يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ ...."
There are hunderds of verses like this.

As per my current understanding when "ya-ayyuha..." is used then it's referring at the one who is present at the moment who fits the description after the word "ya-ayyuhaa", not someone from the past.

Please take a look at this verse to understand better:
12:88 فَلَمَّا دَخَلُوا عَلَيْهِ قَالُوا يَا أَيُّهَا الْعَزِيزُ مَسَّنَا وَأَهْلَنَا الضُّرُّ وَجِئْنَا بِبِضَاعَةٍ مُزْجَاةٍ فَأَوْفِ لَنَا الْكَيْلَ وَتَصَدَّقْ عَلَيْنَا ۖ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ يَجْزِي الْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ
They are talking directly to the one who at that moment fits the description of alaziez.

btw. The story of Yusuf and his brothers explains  a lot for seekers of knowledge 


RED: ok, I misunderstood.

Salaam,
Bender

thanks.. i never thought about that.. you are right, its in present tense not in past tense.. I stay corrected 

[Maha]

huruf

So, who is being called in the Qur'an khatam annabiyin? If the prophet to whom the Qur'an was revealed is not Muhammadun, who is khatam annabiyin?

as I understood it, anyone can be khatam nabiy...

[mmkhan]

So, who is being called in the Qur'an khatam annabiyin? If the prophet to whom the Qur'an was revealed is not Muhammadun, who is khatam annabiyin?

"33.40  مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّ‌سُولَ اللَّـهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا

33.40 Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but is God?s Apostle and the Seal of all Prophets. And God has indeed full knowledge of everything."

Who is this person who is not the father of any of the "riyal" of those these words are addressed to?

I can't but feel that, indeed, the prophet to whom descended de Qur'an was Muhammadun, by name or by condition", and that he is the khatam an-nabiyin, which besides, confirms (the khatam) the essencial unity of prophethood and and all prophets.

Salaam huruf,

You cannot prove that Muhammad [if any, not yet confirmed] was given AlQuraan. Please quote at least a single aayat mentioning it. If AlQuraan proves that a person called Muhammad is the Prophet, we [me and other here] don't have any problem in accepting it. Why should we have any problem to accept him? But I personally don't like to search for my parents Deen into AlQuraan and satisfy myself.

Now lets see how the aayat quoted above with the word Muhammadun can be translated, inshaAllah.

33:40 مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّ‌سُولَ اللَّـهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا
33:40 Praised one is not the father of any of your men, but is Allah?s Messenger and holding the Seal of Prophets. And Allah has indeed full knowledge of everything.

Please click here to see other translations of 33:40.

This aayat might be a criterion to recognize Allah's Messenger. Not sure though, Allah knows best. If you notice it says رِّ‌جَالِكُمْ means of your men. If this aayat is referring to Muhammad who lived 1400 years back, then how Allah relates it to us by saying Muhammed is not the father of any of YOUR men?

خَاتَمَ does not mean end, but it is like a certificate or degree or seal confirming him of Prophets. If you take it end or final then please take a look at the following aayaats.

2:6 اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا سَوَآءٌ عَلَیۡہِمۡ ءَاَنۡذَرۡتَہُمۡ اَمۡ لَمۡ تُنۡذِرۡہُمۡ لَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ
2:6 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

2:7 خَتَمَ اللّٰہُ عَلٰی قُلُوۡبِہِمۡ وَ عَلٰی سَمۡعِہِمۡ ؕ وَ عَلٰۤی اَبۡصَارِہِمۡ غِشَاوَۃٌ ۫ وَّ لَہُمۡ عَذَابٌ عَظِیۡمٌ[/color]
2:7 Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

Please click here to see other translations for 2:6 and click here to see 2:7.

خَتَمَ is used to seal upon the hearts of kafirs.

4:137 اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا ثُمَّ کَفَرُوۡا ثُمَّ اٰمَنُوۡا ثُمَّ کَفَرُوۡا ثُمَّ ازۡدَادُوۡا کُفۡرًا لَّمۡ یَکُنِ اللّٰہُ لِیَغۡفِرَ لَہُمۡ وَ لَا لِیَہۡدِیَہُمۡ سَبِیۡلًا [/color]
4:137 Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way.

Please click here to see other translations for 4:137.

Once those who disbelieved or became kafir how can they believe again when already their hearts has been sealed as per 2:7? This clearly shows that خَتَمَ does not refers to end or finalizing but it simply means to show authorization.

Finally please check carefully 4:155

4:155 فَبِمَا نَقۡضِہِمۡ مِّیۡثَاقَہُمۡ وَ کُفۡرِہِمۡ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ وَ قَتۡلِہِمُ الۡاَنۡۢبِیَآءَ بِغَیۡرِ حَقٍّ وَّ قَوۡلِہِمۡ قُلُوۡبُنَا غُلۡفٌ ؕ بَلۡ طَبَعَ اللّٰہُ عَلَیۡہَا بِکُفۡرِہِمۡ فَلَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ اِلَّا قَلِیۡلًا
4:155 And for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of Allah and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

طَبَعَ also sealed? Please click here to see other translations or 4:155.


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path 
mmKhan

[noshirk]

Thank you for your kind words. As we discussed in other replies, Ahmedu chapter is already over.

chapter is over ?
do you refer to this:

When he [Ahmed] CAME to them with clear evidences, they SAID, this is obvious magic. This means, Ahmed came already and he got answer from his people that was magic.

61:6 And when Issa, son of Mary, said: �O children of Israel, I am a messenger of God to you, authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be AHMADU But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said: �This is clearly Sihr/magic�

ISMUHU AHMADU means Ismuhu Ahmadu.
if Ahmadu is not MUHAMMAD, who is Ahmadu ?

Please note that this sentence have also sense
And when Issa, son of Mary, said: �O children of Israel, I am a messenger of God to you, authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be AHMADU. But when MUHAMMAD/AHMADU came many centuries after and when MUHAMMAD/AHMADU showed them the clear proofs, they said: �This is clearly Sihr/magic�

When we read the verses after:
61:7 And who is more evil than he who invents lies about God, while he is being invited to submission? And God does not guide the wicked people.
61:8 They want to extinguish the light of God with their mouths. But God will continue with His light, even if the rejecters hate it.
61:9 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it will expose all other systems, even if the polytheists hate it.

so Quran would be the sihr/magic.
it is not over for me

Peace.

[mmkhan]

chapter is over ?
do you refer to this:

When he [Ahmed] CAME to them with clear evidences, they SAID, this is obvious magic. This means, Ahmed came already and he got answer from his people that was magic.

Peace noshirk,

Yes, I was referring to that quote.

61:6 And when Issa, son of Mary, said: �O children of Israel, I am a messenger of God to you, authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be AHMADU But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said: �This is clearly Sihr/magic�

ISMUHU AHMADU means Ismuhu Ahmadu.
if Ahmadu is not MUHAMMAD, who is Ahmadu ?

BTW, ism does not mean name. InshaAllah, I will write on it if my TheCreator permits me.

so Quran would be the sihr/magic.
it is not over for me

I did not understand this part. Can you please elaborate more. Thanks!


May Allah increase us in knowledge and keep us guiding to His only path 
mmKhan