undisputed facts about Quran

[imrankhawaja]

I also used to do these kind of maths.

excellent atleast you beleive in math.

[huruf]

There are a lot of good people (including messengers) in the quran without a name.

I know, amonst them the wives of some of the prophets that have a name. However there is plenty of mention with name of people who received scriptures and also of people who did not receive scriptures. Qur'an is upposed to be the contrasting scripture to check the authenticity fo othr scriptures, at least we all use it as such or purport to, so there are very legitimte questions as to why the prophet of the Qur'an should be singled out to be left without a name to name him. Because there i a prohet who received and trnasmitted the Qur'n to people, or is that also questionned? Was the Qur'an handed down to a cooperative? r depoited nonymously somewhere.

I know that we all receive the Qur'an individually in our fitr, the sign in the horizon and within ourselves. No need to go into tht we are all agreed on it. But there is this scripture which we all use, so how did it get to us?

Salaam

[imrankhawaja]

But there is this scripture which we all use, so how did it get to us?

Salaam

sister huruf, sometimes math works, lets play math, equation.

left hand side = right hand side. equation proved.


first solve the left hand side,

there is a scripture thats how we get it,answer lies in the scripture, interestingly in the verse 19 of chapter 6.

6:19 Say (O Messenger), "What could be the greatest witness?? Say, ?God is Witness between me and you. This Qur?an has been revealed to me so that I may warn you as well as whomever it reaches. Do you bear witness that there are other deities besides God?? Say, ?I bear no such witness.? Say, ?He is the One God. I disown what you associate with Him.?

5:48 (O Messenger) We have sent to you this Divine scripture, setting forth the truth. It confirms the remaining truth in the earlier scriptures since it is a Watcher over them. So, judge between them by what God has revealed, and do not follow their desires diverging from the truth that has come to you.

according to left hand side this scripture is started from one person who was definately the last prophet /reciver of scripture and then it carry on to the generations including us .

right hand side who is the last prophet? and how we know he is the last prophet, and how we know scripture (quran) is the last scripture? can we have any hints from quran regarding this? very simple,

here you go.

3:144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will recompense the thankful.

47:2 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God?s Messenger and the closing seal of all Prophets. God is Knower of all things.

what we see here.from above three verses. muhammad was the last prophet who recieved last scripture.and God is telling us to beleive what sent down to muhammad.

now the equation is like this

LHS=RHS . according to quran

LHS=RHS accoridng to early history by muslims,

LHS=RHS according to early non muslim histories as well.

equation proved.

and for the people who dnt beleive i have a verse after the first verse which i posted. have a look into it.

6:20 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.
6:21 And who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.

this verse is telling us God know and God is telling us there will be some people who will not gona beleive and its happening from last 1400 years. lol so not be be worried much. it will happen untill judgement day.

peace and God bless you all

[Bender]

Salaamun Bender,

Don't you have wall around where you are sitting, go hit your head instead

Not any more, I have demolished them all already 

[Bender]

Surprising considering:
http://www.islam-and-muslims.com/External-References-Islam-Hoyland.pdf

Thank you! Have been reading it since yesterday.
I can not verify the sources and the dates but still very interesting.
What I find interesting is that it reminds me of Keyser Soze, no one of the sources met him, at best they only know/met someone who told them about him and or his deeds (which are according to those sources not really positive).

btw I am not saying that nothing happened 1400 years ago, because without history books and archaeology we can witness today that something world changing happened somewhere in the middle east some time ago.
But I am interested in the origin, the first copy and the first one(s) who got the first copy and of course the HOW. And the history books and narratations about these questions are very questionable for a lot of reasons.

[Bender]

Lot of harsh views there.

So what do you think? Do you think the man they ascribe fits the messenger of the quran?

[Bender]

I know, amonst them the wives of some of the prophets that have a name. However there is plenty of mention with name of people who received scriptures and also of people who did not receive scriptures. Qur'an is upposed to be the contrasting scripture to check the authenticity fo othr scriptures, at least we all use it as such or purport to, so there are very legitimte questions as to why the prophet of the Qur'an should be singled out to be left without a name to name him. Because there i a prohet who received and trnasmitted the Qur'n to people, or is that also questionned? Was the Qur'an handed down to a cooperative? r depoited nonymously somewhere.

I know that we all receive the Qur'an individually in our fitr, the sign in the horizon and within ourselves. No need to go into tht we are all agreed on it. But there is this scripture which we all use, so how did it get to us?

Salaam

RED: I do not agree with this. I think only Musa got maybe something like a "scripture", depends on how we want to understand the red word  (7:145)  وَكَتَبْنَا لَهُ فِي الْأَلْوَاحِ

BLUE: I wish I knew, I have no idea.
Of course I have my own speculations, but they are just speculations like any other speculation.

[Hizbullah]

So what do you think? Do you think the man they ascribe fits the messenger of the quran?

Salam Bender,

Quran 16:103

And We certainly know that they say, "It is only a human being who teaches him. The tongue of the one who deviates on him is foreign, and this is [in] clear Arabic language.


My question is,

1. Green - Who was the HUMAN BEING [A MORTAL] who teaches?

2. Red - Who was the "him" that was taught?