3 times Salat (2+1) in Qur'an, 2 page PDF with Color Charts.

[The_Chimp]

Please provide evidence for this dishonesty.

I have evidenced this all over the place . . . follow my profile and see. And once more . . . you condemn me on basis of prejudice/hate/bias first . . .  so if you are waiting for "evidence" how do you know I am being dishonest? Shouldn't you wait for the "evidence"? Yeah right.

Evidence is there - repeatedly. This section - see who I was replying to . . . I gave evidence of 5 prayers from the Quran - was the person interested? No.

This is one post . . . I have repeatedly challenged BS on this forum . . .when you people FAIL then you get abusive - just like you, petal.

What hk requests is rather simple - the three salat names other than fajr & isha, as per Quran. You are providing alleged times with no names. Perhaps this is another case wherein you are incapable of expressing your view clearly.

There was no case of it earlier . . . I blew your BS wide open . . . why don't you read it . . . ?

You didn't "smash" any myths by that article . . .

And I have already pointed out - Quran gives names of 3 and not 2 prayers . . . also all names are time references.

Unfortunately you do not seem to understand basic logic. hk is not saying Quran says X then failing to provide evidence for X. You are.

My preference is to be clear if I say Quran says X then provide evidence for X. Your method seems different.

Once more nonsense. Accusation of fallacious logic and then you back it up with this:

"hk is not saying Quran says X then failing to provide evidence for X."

Yeah right - how nonsensical. . .

Why don't you try addressing the fallacy you tried to pull above? Not hiding are you? It was fundamentally dishonest . . . and illogical nonsense.

Realized you mistakes there and started on this one?

Why not go and address you own stuff first?



As for "HK" - the question never started off with 5 prayer "names" from Quran. . . . it was about evidence of five prayers from Quran. And I have already answered this . . . Quran gives names of 3 prayers!

See fundamentally dishonest or not?

I mean did you bother to read . . . . or just stuck your oar in?

You mean the time where you ended up saying (finally) what I said all along? Or the time when your words implied Islam did not exist prior to chapter 17? 

Neither - I have answered this . . . and I did not end up saying finally or otherwise - what you were saying. It is an illogical stunt . . . and you left it dearest.

Why don't you go back to it . . . leave this to whom it belongs and finish that off first?

I think deep down you know full well the wool you are trying to pull . . . and you probably know full well the idiocy of your own argument.

As - the article you pasted up er . . . and then claimed it smashes "5 salat myth" and then invented that 98%+ Sunni do not know that how Salah started. Yet stupidly pointed out the story of Miraj!

So which "myth" was it that was smashed?

1. These are our Sunni books - whom you do not "believe" in at all . . . so how is it you believe one part and then discard the rest? What criteria exactly?

2. After 5 prayers were established - our narrative claims everyone prayed 5 - including the Prophet Muhammad. And we agree on the number . . . . so all Muslims when obligatory prayers were established prayed 5. And it is our narrative that says before this - there was no established order/command regarding prayers. . . and early Muslims prayed 2,3 or in-numerable prayers.

So on which basis is this Sunni narrative partially exposing "myths" - which one? Wouldn't "myths" actually be exposed if after this command of 5 prayers . . . people still prayed less than 5?

3.

Or the time when your words implied Islam did not exist prior to chapter 17?

And when was this? Or have you resorted to open lies? Like some of your brethren?



Oh - is that why you moved on? You knew you couldn't answer?

Isn't it telling that when I have given and fulfilled the criteria of finding evidence of 5 prayers from the Quran . . .  that people like you simply moved on?

Then goal posts were changed to find the "names" . . . something . . . that really wasn't under question? For example we Sunni - talk about Tawhid a lot . . . and this oneness of God is the most basic definition of being a Muslim but the word does not appear in the Quran - not once. The concept does! The word doesn't.

So when someone asks for evidence for this oneness of Almighty from the Quran and when answered . . .  then says no - now prove the word "Tawhid" from the Quran . . .

Now - see the basic dishonesty?

We have never hid this . . . and large swatches of Sunni faith are established such a way.  For example "Fiqh" - the concept of Islamic law - we derive/base from the Quran and Hadith. . . and even the word. Yet - the word as such is not found. Similarly Tassawuf - its base material is from Quran - the word isn't.

hk is not saying Quran says X then failing to provide evidence for X. You are.

Yeah . . . see your dear lord . . . he forgot to give you a lot that isn't Quran. See he forgot to include Arabic language in the Quran. And for eternity you are in debt to Sunni/Shia for it! Go figure. The people - who are wrong and have been wrong for everything else. . . yet for Arabic they are neeeded.

Oh wait . . . whenever Yuksel needs it . . . or you people . . . then you invent new meanings.

[The_Chimp]

Salah basically means like Communion or similar. At least that is the simplest possible explanation for the word and the possibility to use this term in the context so it always makes sense. But I must agree that the word seems to connote many different things in the same word much like Islam and Muslim. I personally found Mindful/mindfulness within the same boundaries, it is like a data uplink to God.

Since salat involves voice communication I can only anticipate that it means that one ought to speak to God as if God is there and have a kind of mono/dia-logue.

Sorry I know the topic of this thread is whether it is three salat or not per day and not what salat is, I was provoked by the previous poster(s). As I personally understands it there is a prayer at dawn/morning and one in the other end of the day and then one at nightfall with included nightly meditation and probably a deeper Communion. If someone can convince me about the two prayer solution then fine as I am not out to convince people about things but I seek the Truth. Wakas said morning and then afternoon? I cannot exclude that the nightly activity is not a form of Communion however.

For afternoon prayer there seems to be certain support from text within the Bible where they talk about the 3 o'clock prayer. But this salat talk makes me go crazy and I wish there could be more precision.

Anyway, I think the meaning of salah is so easy we would laugh if we got to hear the answer from the Lord and know how much conjecture was really involved in the common understanding. I would not be surprised if it is simply keep the tie to God alive and no more than this. That understanding would always support the context too after I have been thinking while reading the flow of text.

God bless you

You hijack topics . . . when questioned you turn very vile and nasty.

Salah basically means like Communion or similar. At least that is the simplest possible explanation for the word and the possibility to use this term in the context so it always makes sense.

How do you know "Salah" means "Communion or similar"? Where did you get that?

It is a simple question . . .I am not swearing, insulting or whatever . . . I am asking a question.

= = =

Anyway, I think the meaning of salah is so easy

How is it easy. How do you know?

= = =

[Man of Faith]

You hijack topics . . . when questioned you turn very vile and nasty.

I was not even talking to you but the other people of this forum. Well, I was warned because of my harsh responses to you, so now I will only reject you in a more subtle manner. It is not worth being banned over this.

How do you know "Salah" means "Communion or similar"? Where did you get that?

It is a simple question . . .I am not swearing, insulting or whatever . . . I am asking a question.

From study of the root word and simple comparisons based on the context in The Book. It was not really rocket science.

How is it easy. How do you know?

Because man complicates things. Lots of conjecture. It has happened in the past and it happens now.

Peace out

[The_Chimp]

From study of the root word and simple comparisons based on the context in The Book. It was not really rocket science.

I would like to know more. . .

- -

Because man complicates things. Lots of conjecture. It has happened in the past and it happens now.

I don't get what this means? I really do not.

[Man of Faith]

I would like to know more. . .

- -

I don't get what this means? I really do not.

Peace,

There is no time to explain anything at this time. I might bring that up in the Nearness and Guidance thread at some point.

[uq]

Peace Keri,

Many thanks for sharing your study of salah.

I found it thorough and your diagrams were excellently illustrated.

My conclusions regarding salah are very similar to yours.

Thanks again.

[The_Chimp]

Peace Keri,

Many thanks for sharing your study of salah.

I found it thorough and your diagrams were excellently illustrated.

My conclusions regarding salah are very similar to yours.

Thanks again.

Care to elucidate further? 

[Earthdom]

Salaam

Salah basically means like Communion or similar. At least that is the simplest possible explanation for the word and the possibility to use this term in the context so it always makes sense. But I must agree that the word seems to connote many different things in the same word much like Islam and Muslim. I personally found Mindful/mindfulness within the same boundaries, it is like a data uplink to God.

Maybe I can agree with the chimp, but remember I'm neutral in here and not belong to any sects (including Sunni).

Actually there is no verses in the Quran which said if salah is bowing-prostating ritual or even communion.
Like I said we even didn't know if salah is a ritual prayer if we keep rely upon Quran only.
Quranites actualy must said "thanks" to hadithers beause they know if salah is ritual prayers by hadith theaching actually.

In Quran the word salah and bow-prostate-kneeling even written separately,
Example : 2:43 And hold Assalat, and contribute towards purification, and kneel with those who kneel.

People who uphold Quran only withouth knowing hadith at all before, may think if Assalat and kneel-prostate is two separate things.

2:45 And seek help by patience and salat  the contact prayer.It is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble.

Once again if people who know nothing bout another narrations beside Quran, will think if salat in 2:45 is not a physiccal ritual but just a humble pray.

May God bless you

[Man of Faith]

Peace  Earthdom,

Nothing indicates any intricate ritual but a more or less straightforward meaning of being mindful, keeping a tie and mindfulness of God by the word Salah. Impossible to get away from that fact without adding a lot of conjecture. Even the root word has very simple uses in everyday Arabic.

I also analyzed some verses in chapter 9 and if it means the uniform ritual of Muslims today then the religion is dogmatic and zealous based on a view of The Book. In that case I would deem The Book as false, but since the meaning of salah is more simple than that I cannot falsify The Book on that basis.

You know I have no expertise in Arabic and I do not claim that, but I apply logic and reason when interpreting the Message and the basic values of God.

But if you desire to give Salah a ritualistic meaning then go ahead, but it does not seem to suit the Message and the context in my opinion.

I am not a The Book or Islam freak as you know and I do not idolize The Book and I evaluate it to the best of my ability and I only want to follow God and not conjecture due to manly interpretations. However I found the ancient Arabic passages to have a high degree of divine influence and therefore I study this book.

I also use information from other religions in my research for the true path because I do not deem the Message exclusive to the Arabs as even God adds in The Book. And the Message is incredibly simple by only include absolute mindfulness of God and belief and service to Him by being good and working against evil.

God bless you

[The_Chimp]

Peace  Earthdom,

Nothing indicates any intricate ritual but a more or less straightforward meaning of being mindful, keeping a tie and mindfulness of God by the word Salah. Impossible to get away from that fact without adding a lot of conjecture. Even the root word has very simple uses in everyday Arabic.

I also analyzed some verses in chapter 9 and if it means the uniform ritual of Muslims today then the religion is dogmatic and zealous based on a view of The Book. In that case I would deem The Book as false, but since the meaning of salah is more simple than that I cannot falsify The Book on that basis.

You know I have no expertise in Arabic and I do not claim that, but I apply logic and reason when interpreting the Message and the basic values of God.

But if you desire to give Salah a ritualistic meaning then go ahead, but it does not seem to suit the Message and the context in my opinion.

I am not a The Book or Islam freak as you know and I do not idolize The Book and I evaluate it to the best of my ability and I only want to follow God and not conjecture due to manly interpretations. However I found the ancient Arabic passages to have a high degree of divine influence and therefore I study this book.

I also use information from other religions in my research for the true path because I do not deem the Message exclusive to the Arabs as even God adds in The Book. And the Message is incredibly simple by only include absolute mindfulness of God and belief and service to Him by being good and working against evil.

God bless you

You say you have no expertise in Arabic . . . can I point out . . . [and please do not jump at me] that you do not have any expertise in "logic" either. Now - everyone has an internal sense logic - however that is extremely sloppy and prone to plenty of mistakes if not honed. So saying that you use "logic" is not really saying much at all. When you know your instrument is wonky . . . then you already know your readings are going to be incorrect.

Studying of texts - any literary texts - requires certain amount academic specialisms and sophistication . . . [I know I big myself up - however I even I am not at those heights] . . . the point being no one here is . . .so the work of utter amateurs is likely to be filled with many mistakes. I mean you seem VERY closed talking about any education that you have . . . which gives me an open chance to be really boastful. 

- -

The thing with Sunni Islam is that it has had history of highly sophisticated and really bright scholars going for it . . . those that have studied the required areas [I mean things like logic - language science such as grammar, rhetoric, pragmatics, semantics, phonology and etc] and have added to a sophisticated knowledge base. A scholar who has studied this and "s/he" rejects something is completely different than someone rejecting something out of sheer ignorance. People here make pitiful argument by quoting out-of-context verses and be against "scholarship" - yet the point of scholarship is easy to see . . . mate!, you come out with some of the worst clap-trap I have ever heard.