Author Topic: New article: salat timings as per The Quran  (Read 26973 times)

jemby97

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #110 on: June 30, 2021, 03:54:22 AM »
My  questions:

1-When was the prophet given the command to "Aquimi The Salat"?
2-Did he know the details  of "the Salat"?
3- What,how and how many ?
4- Was "The Salat" done/existed" before  the prophet?
5- Can any research/es of this be found and what evidence do they contain?
...And so on to get to the truth of "The Salat".

This where I am spending my time trying to unravel, up to now I am here:

!Given its-The Salat- importance in Muslim worship, it follows
that the origins of salāt should be widely researched in the modern, secular study of Islam. This, however, is not the case. Relatively little has been published on the subject. Most of the detailed history comes from hadith narrations and biased documents that have no concrete evidence.

There are numerus thesis that always end in disappointment for me . The further they go ,the less evidence on finds. like for example-And this is just one of many -:
https://www.almuslih.org/Library/Hienz,%20J%20-%20The%20Origins.pdf

Perhaps the common theme is that Jews, Zoroastrians, Christians also had "The Salat" in some form or other...

Qoran, for a very good reason, remains the solid source that can highlight the inconstancies of  any research.. However , Qoran can also add the "test" factor that GOD intended  in it to sort out the true convictions and motives of GOD s servants.

While one should never give up the search for their"truth", one needs to trust in GOD Alone and see where Qoran takes them with this subject.
Each can only answer individually for their sincerity towards and understanding of GOD s instructions in the message.

For me the "sirat Al Mustaqueem"-straight path - of leading one s life comes first .One should be honest with themselves and only do what they understand best for themselves. Differences in understanding are the norm and GOD is the sole judge .
Why did GOD not clear everything up for everyone to clearly see is obvious FOR THIS LIFE AS HUMANS- for the test-..
What do you make of how,what and when of"The Salat " according to Qoran"?
That is what you should do.
GOD bless you all.
Peace


Salam Good Logic,

You have ask several very pertinent questions that I feel and agreed that it is worth asking and discussing further.

Can you open up a new thread on these questions and issues.

Thank you.

Joe Alam

good logic

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2021, 05:09:14 AM »
May be in the future.
I will not be able to do it justice so far as there are a number of issues still  open.
Of course ,I am continuing with the Salat as per my  current understanding. My search for the above answers is  ongoing.
If I have any "new findings" of course I will declare them here. Then we can talk/discuss.

I apologise for not being ready  to do this yet.
Thank you for asking.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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jkhan

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2021, 09:25:47 AM »
My  questions:

1-When was the prophet given the command to "Aquimi The Salat"?
2-Did he know the details  of "the Salat"?
3- What,how and how many ?
4- Was "The Salat" done/existed" before  the prophet?
5- Can any research/es of this be found and what evidence do they contain?
...And so on to get to the truth of "The Salat".

This where I am spending my time trying to unravel, up to now I am here:


I don't understand why you are unable to perceive it within Quran...

Just think with simple logic brother...

1... Prophet got only messages from GOd... He would have known only when he was placed the message on him... Even if he had known before hand he can't follow what is not revealed to him.. Can he as a messenger of Quran?

2... Question is not transperant.. If you ask after Quran was revealed then Yes.. If before Quran was revealed then No.. Coz he was not someone who was guided with a book and he didn't even read other scriptures.. ..

3.. . Why you so stress... Do you ask this question coz conventional Salat contains so many steps to do and those steps are not described in Quran.. Or do you want something naturally beyond what Quran explains about Salat.. Simply ponder.. Do you think Muhamed didn't understand 17:78 and 11:114? And his companions and community were not aware what these two verses explains... Don't forget they were praying after timing was given... Was the timing in these two verses too difficult for them to figure out?  If they didn't know how when and what.. How did they pray 4:103 and chapter juma.. They knew the time and they called others to sala and they left all behind..

Note... If you carefully study Quran, Salat is fully explained.. In short Salat is to be first clean and STAND and call God by His name and recite what 17:110 teaches and then magnify God as much as one wants within the timing given in 11:114 and 17:78... What else you want brother.. Do you want more while God keep it simple...

4... Why shouldn't Salat exist.. After all what is Salat.. It is prayer applauding God in given time.. Do you think messengers before Muhamed were exempted from being applauding God?  Salat is one of imperative criteria to enter jannah.. Chapter 23:1-10.. So dear brother all messengers were given basic message other than some totally relevant respective society on burning issues..

5... evidence is in the same quran which you study for years... Try to find out..

Btw... Keep doing what makes your mind happy but keep searching for truth from God's guidance..

 

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2021, 11:09:58 AM »
 I get what you are saying about Qoran. I do not doubt that Qran has all the explanations.. This does not mean we should all understand it only one way.
I also have no doubt that "The Salat" instructed in Qoran is a connection  to GOD Alone-contact prayer- to feed our soul.
I also have no doubt that GOD helps us understand Qoran according to our deep conviction and sincerity to seek His guidance.
And GOD sends nus messengers with "bayyina-Proof- as part of our guidance.

I was talking mainly about the history of "The Salat" that GOD talks about in Qoran. History of its origin= from Abraham- to our recent days: like:
How many  did Abraham do daily?
Was there the same number daily since then? Was there any change in the number of prayers?
What did the Jews exactly do? What about the Christians? What was lost of it?
How did the early Muslims practice it? has it changed?...

I AM TRYING TO SEE HOW MUCH OF HISTORY AND RESEARCH FITS WITH QORAN?

This is what I am not able to conclude on for sure and I was saying i need more time on this to bring test the evidence of the stories research.
Hope you get me brother.
As for my evidence from Qoran, I am satisfied with what I have understood so far, which does not mean that  others will agree with it. Like you know, many differ in many things about what Qoran says.
I still hold the view that Qoran instructs "ME" to do 5 daily prayers. I have not  found any evidence that I need to change this .
Of course  my search is ongoing.  Will I be able to to pass my Lord s test of sincerity about my search when  we meet? That is my main  and most important question.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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jkhan

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #114 on: June 30, 2021, 05:53:22 PM »
I get what you are saying about Qoran. I do not doubt that Qran has all the explanations.. This does not mean we should all understand it only one way.
I also have no doubt that "The Salat" instructed in Qoran is a connection  to GOD Alone-contact prayer- to feed our soul.
I also have no doubt that GOD helps us understand Qoran according to our deep conviction and sincerity to seek His guidance.
And GOD sends nus messengers with "bayyina-Proof- as part of our guidance.

I was talking mainly about the history of "The Salat" that GOD talks about in Qoran. History of its origin= from Abraham- to our recent days: like:
How many  did Abraham do daily?
Was there the same number daily since then? Was there any change in the number of prayers?
What did the Jews exactly do? What about the Christians? What was lost of it?
How did the early Muslims practice it? has it changed?...

I AM TRYING TO SEE HOW MUCH OF HISTORY AND RESEARCH FITS WITH QORAN?

This is what I am not able to conclude on for sure and I was saying i need more time on this to bring test the evidence of the stories research.
Hope you get me brother.
As for my evidence from Qoran, I am satisfied with what I have understood so far, which does not mean that  others will agree with it. Like you know, many differ in many things about what Qoran says.
I still hold the view that Qoran instructs "ME" to do 5 daily prayers. I have not  found any evidence that I need to change this .
Of course  my search is ongoing.  Will I be able to to pass my Lord s test of sincerity about my search when  we meet? That is my main  and most important question.
GOD bless you.
Peace.



Keep praying what you prefer coz that's what your inner instincts compel you to do, not after knowing the truth though.. So it is the truth for you.. Guidance of God will make you clear in case you have chosen the wrong option.. That's between you and your Lord..

BTW.. Your question No 1-3 is about prophet not about before prophet and history...
Question no 4-5 you are asking for historical evidences...  Evidences away from Quran don't make anyone convince... I doubt that...
There are so many evidences that ritual practices were at least from Ibrahim or even before...
For example God says fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed to those before you... Before you may mean immediate and long back as well.. So brother we don't know what they fasted and hoe many they fasted.. But do what is mentioned in Quran to best of your understanding...

Similar God says in Quran to Musa 10:87 to do Salat... So it is pointless to find out how many they did.. What is the use?  Are you gonna revert to what they did or you gonna follow what Quran orders.. Find history within Quran.. That's my advise.. Why you even ask your question No 4 when clear verses like 10:87 is in Quran.. Is it not aqimi Salat?

Whatever.. keep. researching coz I don't want to divert the topic...
Note...  Can you explain from where 5 Salat you picked from limited verses of 11:114 and 17:78...so we also perceive why some of Quran followers take five salat..
This question is relevant to topic.. So you may answer pls if you wish..
Remember not to challenge you but just to grasp how you made the five salat within Quran..

good logic

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #115 on: July 01, 2021, 02:50:30 AM »
Peace jkhan.

First in general, and n short, we are free to take or leave GOD s deen. GOD does not force us.
 However ,people make a problem for themselves by conforming to things they doubt or do not make sense to them.
Your decision alone is required ,nobody else will bare your burden whether you rely on them or not.
GOD guides and teaches all the true believers.

Coming back to "The Salat" , I have spent years investigating many views, especially those views from the specific "Qoran alone"  brothers and sistyers. All asking " where can I find how  and when to do "The Salat" from Qoran?. Yet after giving their views most fail to find the meaning and details of their claims using Qoran, which  they were asking the exact thing  in the first place.
The only exception that had a solid argument that was coherent and used all Qoran in context about "the salat" was this-according to my research- :
https://submission.org/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html

 The questions from everyone will keep coming about "The salat like:
I wonder why not the two named Salats? Why 3 0r 5 ...etc?
I wonder if someone has no limbs ,how they going to do it?.
I wonder if someone has an emergency to attend or forgets... , how are they going to do it?.
I wonder if someone is on the moon, how are they going to do it.?
I wonder if someone is at the north pole, how are they going to do it?
...etc.
All these have been taken care of in Qoran, if one is not capable or enable to be on earth or...Then they are excused. They do it in their head if they can or not at all. GOD is forgiver most merciful.

The deen is not about rules and regulations ,it is about intentions , good morals and good work first and foremost.
The other helping items are there for the ones that can.. Each needs to follow GOD s instructions to the best of their abilities.
We cannot fool GOD or look for excuses. GOD is aware of each one of us . whether we are capable, where we are and whether we hear and obey him .
Or do you think we are left without GOD distinguishing our honesty and true intentions? Therefore you do what you can to the best of your knowledge!

"The Salat" , sawm, Zakat, ...etc are a helping hand from GOD to grow our souls more for thiose who wish to come even closer to GOD.

Our views, can only look "without errors" to us, Each thinking  that their " cleverness and logic of their Qoran study" has worked.
GOD  s logic is not our logic, that is why GOD keeps sending messengers.
Is there more to come from Qoran?
I will say yes ,until GOD decides the end for all of us
If you want to do "the salat" search for your own version or carry on with what you have. You have the means to decide for yourself..
And of course one should never give up searching and trying.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
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jkhan

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #116 on: July 01, 2021, 06:19:39 PM »
Peace jkhan.

First in general, and n short, we are free to take or leave GOD s deen. GOD does not force us.
 However ,people make a problem for themselves by conforming to things they doubt or do not make sense to them.
Your decision alone is required ,nobody else will bare your burden whether you rely on them or not.
GOD guides and teaches all the true believers.

Coming back to "The Salat" , I have spent years investigating many views, especially those views from the specific "Qoran alone"  brothers and sistyers. All asking " where can I find how  and when to do "The Salat" from Qoran?. Yet after giving their views most fail to find the meaning and details of their claims using Qoran, which  they were asking the exact thing  in the first place.
The only exception that had a solid argument that was coherent and used all Qoran in context about "the salat" was this-according to my research- :
https://submission.org/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html

 The questions from everyone will keep coming about "The salat like:
I wonder why not the two named Salats? Why 3 0r 5 ...etc?
I wonder if someone has no limbs ,how they going to do it?.
I wonder if someone has an emergency to attend or forgets... , how are they going to do it?.
I wonder if someone is on the moon, how are they going to do it.?
I wonder if someone is at the north pole, how are they going to do it?
...etc.
All these have been taken care of in Qoran, if one is not capable or enable to be on earth or...Then they are excused. They do it in their head if they can or not at all. GOD is forgiver most merciful.

The deen is not about rules and regulations ,it is about intentions , good morals and good work first and foremost.
The other helping items are there for the ones that can.. Each needs to follow GOD s instructions to the best of their abilities.
We cannot fool GOD or look for excuses. GOD is aware of each one of us . whether we are capable, where we are and whether we hear and obey him .
Or do you think we are left without GOD distinguishing our honesty and true intentions? Therefore you do what you can to the best of your knowledge!

"The Salat" , sawm, Zakat, ...etc are a helping hand from GOD to grow our souls more for thiose who wish to come even closer to GOD.

Our views, can only look "without errors" to us, Each thinking  that their " cleverness and logic of their Qoran study" has worked.
GOD  s logic is not our logic, that is why GOD keeps sending messengers.
Is there more to come from Qoran?
I will say yes ,until GOD decides the end for all of us
If you want to do "the salat" search for your own version or carry on with what you have. You have the means to decide for yourself..
And of course one should never give up searching and trying.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Peace...

Thank you...
If what is written in the link is sufficient and satisfactory for you to perform five salat a day then keep doing... For me not at all..
No more comments..

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #117 on: July 02, 2021, 03:21:38 AM »
Thank you jkhan.
 May GOD also help you through these trying times of the world. and keep you guided.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Mahdi20

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Re: New article: salat timings as per The Quran
« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2021, 10:59:15 AM »
In the name of God

Peace wakas, peace all


The only verses which mention salat alongside a timing component are: 11:114, 17:78, 24:58 and possibly 73:20.


i dont agree with this, i think this three verses also reffers to which we call salat/prayer


فَاصْبِرْ عَلَىٰ مَا يَقُولُونَ وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا ۖ وَمِنْ آنَاءِ اللَّيْلِ فَسَبِّحْ وَأَطْرَافَ النَّهَارِ لَعَلَّكَ تَرْضَىٰi(i impile that it refers to which we call fajr prayer(قبل طلوع الشمس) maghrib prayer(قبل غروبها) esha prayer(وَمِنْ آنَاءِ اللَّيْلِ), also i think اطراف النهار defined in the two verse that i will write below)

فَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ حِينَ تُمْسُونَ وَحِينَ تُصْبِحُونَ , i think تمسون=When you enter evening , as i know evening means مساء ... im not wrong , am i? So this verse refers to fajr and evening

And

وَلَهُ الْحَمْدُ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَعَشِيًّا وَحِينَ تُظْهِرُونَ


i prefer تظهرون=When you enter noon(mid day)

So i think this verse  is about esha and noon prayer

That was my impression.... im a muslim who only follows quran, and before it i was shia(not sunni, as you might think that my impression that prayers is 5 times is because of my sunni background)

Peace  :handshake:








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