Pork is HALAL

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

Think about this... "Which of you is mad? 68:6"

The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. "Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does." They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal (Islamic) society.

(this is haram?  )

Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal (Islamic) society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.?

― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited

[kaltun]

Iblees 

little off topic but this is :

herbert kornfeld ( presumably he is dead )

[good logic]

You mean Herbert Kornfield the gansta?

May Allah guide him to the straight path as well! OK may be it is too late.
GOD bless you.
peace.

[jkhan]

2:267
?O you who have believed, spend from the good things which you have earned and from that which We have produced for you from the earth. And do not aim toward the defective therefrom, spending [from that] while you would not take it [yourself] except with closed eyes. And know that Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy.?
68:25-26
?And they went in the morning with strong intention, thinking that they have power (to prevent the poor taking anything of the fruits therefrom).
But when they saw the (garden), they said: "Verily, we have gone astray,"

The above verses are very good exemplary indications that what is the nature of human? They like only the good things to eat or have what earth produces for which no need extra explanation not consume the decayed items.. That?s so natural with how human is created?
God guide people? The Sardar .. the above verses would help your concern and strengthen the evidence in sha allah..

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

Nothing in the Quran says maggoty and stinking flesh etc haram...

Threfore, your religion says it is HALAL to drink camel urine, eat shit, maggoty meat etc... 

Those who say "pork only" can drink urine and eat shit .. there is nothing in your Quran that says it is HARAM.. therefore "Do not say about what your lying tongues describe: This is halal and this is haram 16:116"



This is the i'tiqad for Quran Alone... and the hadith corroborates well with your interpretation...  it is HALAL!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Humans

Say: "Produce your witnesses to testify that Allah made this (camel urine, shit, maggoty and stinking meat etc) haram." If they do testify, do not testify with them and do not follow the whims and desires of people who deny Our Signs, and who do not have iman in the Next World and make others equal to their Lord (SHIRK). (6:150)

Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (4:82)

[quincy]

Urine Therapy is actually very healthy. And the quality of urine is based on ones consumption behaviour. Now you can think why camel urine was so special. Excrements are something completely different...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eclkz586P1c

Brother you are completely lost because of this System and its paradigms. Seek forgivenes and help from the Almighty.

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

Think about this... "Which of you is mad? 68:6"

[Iyyaka]

Salam,

Interesting but it can not be "spoiled meat". You do not need God for that ..

I suggest you three lines of thought:

1) Literal: "Pork meat" => The traditional track. Ok you rejected it but it's the most literal understanding even if one wonders why add the word "meat" because the word "pig" would have been enough and no ambiguity possible like that

2) Allegorical:

2-1) "Pork meat" = Fornication (Out of marriage)
It is interesting to note that God is asking us to believe what has been descended before Muhammad and the teaching of Jesus comes after the Torah. But we find 4 prohibited in "acts of the apostles" who have a familiarity with our 4 forbidden except on 1 point "Pork meat" versus Fornication. (See 15:20 and 15:29)

2-2) "Pork meat" = Devilish words of the devils
In the injeel and in the Koran the pig symbolically represents the devil.
The pig is the one who looks askance instead of looking straight ahead

Peace

[Mahdi Ibrahim]

"spoiled meat". You do not need God for that ..

You're saying we can sell maggoty stinking meats?

You are not to eat any carcass; you may give it to a temporary resident within your gates, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. (Deuteronomy 14:21)

Anyone who eats from the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening, and anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening. (Leviticus 11:40)

Say: "People of the Book (Jews, Christians and Muslims)! you have nothing to stand on until you implement the Torah and the Gospel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord." (Quran 5:68)

Those who say "pork only" can drink urine and eat shit .. there is nothing in your Quran that says it is HARAM.. therefore "Do not say about what your lying tongues describe: This is halal and this is haram 16:116"



This is the i'tiqad for Quran Alone... and the hadith corroborates well with your interpretation...  it is HALAL!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Humans

Please make the argument with "authority"..

What verse from the Quran that makes haram maggoty stinking meat etc?

I suggest you three lines of thought:

I suggest none of the above and verses 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.

[Iyyaka]

Salam

Even if you do not want to analyze in depth my assumptions (by my fault - given few arguments) you must know that I prefer the second hypothesisi made in my previous message (Fornication) ; and I will give you my arguments (even in a language, English, that is not natural for me - so sorry in advance for my faults).

Let's start at the beginning. 4 things are forbidden :

- Category 1 => Carrion and in [5:3] this category is more detailed (including the smothered animal)
- Category 2 => Blood
- Category 3 => pork meat
- Category 4 => meat dedicated to idols

Then we have one thing in common. As you mentioned all meat was allowed BEFORE the revelation of the Torah (so pork too ..).
Second verse [5:3] as a whole refers to something that relates to the flesh in the physical sense of the term (which is why I reject my third hypothesis). This is also our second common point.

- - - - - Now see our differences and first your arguments:

1) You quote the deuteronomy and the levitic => Very well but the problem is that it falls in the category 1 and not the 3.

2) Then God already forbids spoiled or smelly meat through category 1. (so I answer your question)

3) Finally the word "Khinzir" in other verses of the Qur'an is unambiguously translated as "pork" (5:60 "Say:" Shall I inform you of it worse than a punishment from God? angry at them, and made of them apes and PIGS .. ")

- - - - - Now, my arguments for saying "pork meat" = Fornication.

                1)God asks us not to practice fornication and adultery :

[23:5] those who preserve their sex,
[23:6] Except for their wives or what they possess by oath, in which they can not be blamed.

But the word "infamy" (alfawahisha in 7:33 for example) concerns in the QURAN only 3 categories:
1) adultery
2) ribba
3) homosexuality.
But not fornication between 1 man and 1 woman ...Also ?Arabic : ZINA ? refers in Quran to adultery.

               2) Acts of the Apostles and Parallel with the Qur'an

Quran(5:3..)                              Acts of the apostles (15:20&29)
Carrion (strangled among others…)   Thins strangled
Blood                                                       From blood
Pork meat                                            Fornication
Meat dedicated for idols                     Pollution of idols

=> Acts of Apostles -15:20 "But that they write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. "

                 3) Term "Constraint" uses

QURAN [5:3] ".... But if anyone is forced into it, other than by desire or transgression, then God is Forgiving, Merciful. "
versus
QURAN [24:33] "And in your search for the goods of life here below, do not compel your young girls to prostitution, if they wish to remain chaste. If someone restrains them, then God, after they have been restrained, is Forgiving, Merciful. "

=> Amazing and unique parallel that is not random. We find the notion of constraint (forced) and the fact that God is forgiving, merciful.But it is a matter of forced fornication, and not of adultery, in [24:33].

                 4) Tainted (6:145) "Arabic: RIJS)

Why abstain from pork?
God justifies it by the notion of "defilement" in [6:145].

The word RIJS appears in the following verses:
- 5: 90
- 6: 125
- 6: 145 = pork meat
- 7: 71
- 9: 95
- 9: 125 (2 times)
- 10: 100
- 22: 30 => tainted of idols
- 33: 33

=> The word ? tainted ? refers in these verses to the tainted of the soul/heart and not to the physical tainted of the body.
=> It is reasonable to assume that the 6:145 refers to the taint of the soul related to a sin and not to the tainted of the body

                 5) Classical Dictionary

As you have underlined in your first messages the pork is so called because "he looked from the outer angles of his eyes" (Lane's lexicon) Applied to a man this may mean having a concupiscent look => sexual connotations or having lying words (not right).

                 6) Pork taken as allegory (Cf -> 5: 60 quoted above).

We need to know that the Arabs were pragmatic and, like us today, used images of animals to insult or target bad behavior.

                 7) meat as human flesh

Quran - [49:12] "...Would any of you enjoy eating (Arabic: Yakula) the flesh (Arabic: Lahma) of his dead brother? …"
=> Here "Lahma" makes reference to human flesh and it is mentionned in an allegorical meaning

Peace be upon u.