What parts of the Bible are reliable for doctrine?

[Theo]

The Quran endorses the Torah and the gospel, but says nothing about Paul or the Pauline epistles.

Paul was a Pharisee, and the doctrine of the Pharisees was warned against by Yeshua (Isa). Also there is the book of Jasher, which is referenced in the Bible but is not included. Another source is the Gospel of Thomas, which is a record of some of the sayings of Yeshua.

[Emre_1974tr]

No;


The Koran confirms the Injeel given to Jesus. The hadith books written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not Injeel.

These hadith books were more numerous, but at the council held in Bursa, in Nicaea, most of these hadith books were eliminated and these few were sold to people as Injeel. In reality, they are not even related.

In the same way, the real Torah is not on the market. The Torah and the gospels that are now on the market are human-written communist pagan hadith books.

They are diametrically opposed to the Qur'an on many issues.


The Qur'an already states that they hid their true books:

Surah Al-An'am 91: They could not recognise Allah in a manner worthy of His glory. For they said, "Allah has not revealed anything to man". Say: "Who sent down the Book which Moses brought to mankind as a light and a guide? And you bring forth that Book in scrolls, and you keep many of them hidden. You have been taught what neither you nor your fathers knew." Say, "Allah", then let them play in the mire in which they are mired.

****

3:187 God took the covenant of those who were given the book: "You will proclaim to the people and not conceal it." However, they threw it behind their backs and purchased with it a cheap price. Miserable indeed is what they have purchased.

[Theo]

The Koran confirms the Injeel given to Jesus. The hadith books written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not Injeel.

How can any text be shown to be Injeel and not hadith?

In the same way, the real Torah is not on the market. The Torah and the gospels that are now on the market are human-written communist pagan hadith books.

If this were true then Isaiah 29 could not exist, since it refers indirectly to the Muhammad as the seal of the prophets.

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger () replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet () added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.'
Bukhari 4953

They are diametrically opposed to the Qur'an on many issues.

Can you show an example of this?

The Qur'an already states that they hid their true books:

And you bring forth that Book in scrolls, and you keep many of them hidden

Your proof text doesn't say anything about true books.

3:187 God took the covenant of those who were given the book: "You will proclaim to the people and not conceal it." However, they threw it behind their backs and purchased with it a cheap price. Miserable indeed is what they have purchased.

There were those before them who did not conceal it.


You ˹believers˺ will surely be tested in your wealth and yourselves,1 and you will certainly hear many hurtful words from those who were given the Scripture before you and ˹from˺ the polytheists. But if you are patient and mindful ˹of Allah˺—surely this is a resolve to aspire to.
˹Remember, O  Prophet,˺ when Allah took the covenant of those who were given the Scripture to make it known to people and not hide it, yet they cast it behind their backs and traded it for a fleeting gain. What a miserable profit!
3:186-187

[Emre_1974tr]

I did not say that there is no correct information in these hadith books.

There may be a lot of correct information in these hadith books, just like in the books of Bukhari and Tirmidhi. But in general they are pagan communist books.

You asked for examples of their contradictions with the Qur'an. Please read my work until the last page:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609978.0

[Theo]

I did not say that there is no correct information in these hadith books.

Do you think that the books of the prophets are hadith?

You asked for examples of their contradictions with the Qur'an.

"Quran 50:38 We have created the heavens, the earth and what is between them in six days, and no fatigue touched Us."

Do you have text that says that they were fatigued? The Hebrew word for rested can mean ceased.


https://biblehub.com/hebrew/vaiyishbot_7673.htm



"Those who have denied Our signs, and reacted to them with arrogance"

How is that a contradiction?

[Emre_1974tr]

Do you think that the books of the prophets are hadith?
"Qu

They are not verses, but books of hadith, pagan traps.

The verses addressed to you say that those who accept human words as verses are heretics of hell.


By the way, I said to read all the pages, and your attempt to comment without reading is another contradiction.

[Emre_1974tr]

They are not verses, but books of hadith, pagan traps.

The verses addressed to you say that those who accept human words as verses are heretics of hell.


By the way, I said to read all the pages, and your attempt to comment without reading is another contradiction.

Just as the book of Enoch is not the true Bible, neither are the other books of Matthew, Mark, etc.

Moreover, the book of Enoch is the closest to the truth among them. But it is still a book of hadith written by man and not a source of religion.

Just as the book of Enoch is not the Bible, neither are the others. The priests and other clergymen have decided for you what is scripture and what is not, and you follow their teaching like a robot.

All those books of hadith are non-religious. None of them are Torah or Injeel.

[good logic]

Peace All.

The issue is what is a scripture?
Torah, Injeel/Gospel that Qoran talks about are described as GOD s revelations to Moses. other prophet.s pf Israel and Jesus.
 Has GOD sent a scripture called the bible to Beni Israel through a prophet? Which one?
So what is the bible and where does it come from? What evidence can one bring to say for sure the bible is GOD s scripture? Or any other books that exist now are GODs scripture?

If GOD s scripture comes from GOD Alone ,then the words are GOD s and do not come from other sources.
Similarly what is GOD s religion?

The True Muslims/ Submitters follow God's revelations, and obey God's commandments as best they can. They can be from any man made religions or otherwise -no religion-.

They follow the truth from their Lord and GOD s words/revelation only ,not men s books /hadiths/interpretations of GOD s words...i.e, not the corrupted religions and man-made doctrines of Judaism. Christianity , Traditional Islam..etc

True Islam/ Submission today is like a precious jewel that is buried under piles upon piles of man-made innovations /religions.

True Islam/submission is the one and only  religion of Adam, Noah and Abraham. It was the same religion of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. It was the same religion of all of the prophets and messengers. All of them were Muslims/ Submitters to God, and God alone.
That is the consistent message from GOD.
God bless you.
Peace.

[Theo]

They are not verses, but books of hadith, pagan traps.

Do you have any facts to support that opinion?

[Theo]

Peace All.

The issue is what is a scripture?
Torah, Injeel/Gospel that Qoran talks about are described as GOD s revelations to Moses. other prophet.s pf Israel and Jesus.

Hello,
The problem with language that uses the term GOD is that it is ambiguous. GOD/God can refer to El, Elah, Elohim, or Allah depending on the context.

Scripture usually means religious text that someone likes or considers to be authoritative.

I agree that it is wise to make a distinction between texts that are the result of divine inspiration and texts that are based on hearsay or religious opinions.

[Emre_1974tr]

Do you have any facts to support that opinion?

Of course, this is what I talk about in my work. Please read all the pages.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609978.0

And;

The Book of Enoch
The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Book of Jesus Christ
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
♦ The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)
♦ The Epistle of Barnabas
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
♦ The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
♦ The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
The History of Susana


The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan (The First and Second Book of Adam and Eve)
The Secrets of Enoch (also known as the Slavonic Enoch or Second Enoch)
The Psalms of Solomon
The Odes of Solomon
The Letter of Aristeas
The Fourth Book of Maccabees
The Story of Ahikar
Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs


And there are many such hadith books written by people. Priests and other clergymen, etc. adopted some of these books as Injeel or Holy book or Torah or Zebur and made people adopt this lie.

These are all hadith books written by human beings and other servants.

Just like Bukhari and Tirmizi.

None of these are holy books, none of these are verses.

To reject these books is not to reject the true Injeel.

And with these books, also the belief in the Trinity was accepted and instilled in people in Bursa, my hometown.

Under the guidance of the clergy, people adopted hadith books such as Matthew and Mark as Injeel. Unfortunately, whatever the experts from the top say, you adopt them like a robot without questioning.

[good logic]

Peace Theo.

Thank you for your comment.
You are right that scripture is some authoritative writings.
GOD s scripture is GOD s revelations/ words/ message. There should not be any need to define GOD/God as there is only one GOD.
For me the GOD is described as follows in Qoran:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ
Proclaim, "He is the One and only God.
قُل هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ
"The Absolute God.
اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ
"Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
لَم يَلِد وَلَم يولَد
"None equals Him."
وَلَم يَكُن لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ

And:
He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. Knower of all secrets and declarations. He is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذى لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ عٰلِمُ الغَيبِ وَالشَّهٰدَةِ هُوَ الرَّحمٰنُ الرَّحيمُ
He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. The King, the Most Sacred, the Peace, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified. God be glorified; far above having partners.
هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذى لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ المَلِكُ القُدّوسُ السَّلٰمُ المُؤمِنُ المُهَيمِنُ العَزيزُ الجَبّارُ المُتَكَبِّرُ سُبحٰنَ اللَّهِ عَمّا يُشرِكونَ
He is the One God; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful traits. Glorifying Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.
هُوَ اللَّهُ الخٰلِقُ البارِئُ المُصَوِّرُ لَهُ الأَسماءُ الحُسنىٰ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ ما فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ وَهُوَ العَزيزُ الحَكيمُ

Or simply the creator of everything.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Theo]

Peace Theo.

Thank you for your comment.
You are right that scripture is some authoritative writings.
GOD s scripture is GOD s revelations/ words/ message. There should not be any need to define GOD/God as there is only one GOD.
For me the GOD is described as follows in Qoran:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ
Proclaim, "He is the One and only God.
قُل هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ
"The Absolute God.
اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ
"Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
لَم يَلِد وَلَم يولَد
"None equals Him."
وَلَم يَكُن لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ

And:
He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. Knower of all secrets and declarations. He is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذى لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ عٰلِمُ الغَيبِ وَالشَّهٰدَةِ هُوَ الرَّحمٰنُ الرَّحيمُ
He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. The King, the Most Sacred, the Peace, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified. God be glorified; far above having partners.
هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذى لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ المَلِكُ القُدّوسُ السَّلٰمُ المُؤمِنُ المُهَيمِنُ العَزيزُ الجَبّارُ المُتَكَبِّرُ سُبحٰنَ اللَّهِ عَمّا يُشرِكونَ
He is the One God; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful traits. Glorifying Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.
هُوَ اللَّهُ الخٰلِقُ البارِئُ المُصَوِّرُ لَهُ الأَسماءُ الحُسنىٰ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ ما فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ وَهُوَ العَزيزُ الحَكيمُ

Or simply the creator of everything.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

The reason to use unambiguous language is that it enables clear communication of ideas between people who interpret those ideas according to different paradigms.

[Euphoric]

The Quran endorses the Torah and the gospel, but says nothing about Paul or the Pauline epistles.

Paul was a Pharisee, and the doctrine of the Pharisees was warned against by Yeshua (Isa). Also there is the book of Jasher, which is referenced in the Bible but is not included. Another source is the Gospel of Thomas, which is a record of some of the sayings of Yeshua.

The Torat and al-Injeel are not the modern day Torah and Gospels. There is no reason to believe al-Injeel are the four canonical gospels. The Injeel was given directly to Eissa, not anyone else.  Injeel was not a biography book written by others.

I gave evidence why Jesus was not a prophet and he was in fact not a follower of truth https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612092.0

[Theo]

I gave evidence why Jesus was not a prophet and he was in fact not a follower of truth https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612092.0

If that were true then how do you explain Michael Molnar's solution to the problem of the account of the star of Bethlehem?

[Theo]

Peace Theo.

Thank you for your comment.
You are right that scripture is some authoritative writings.
GOD s scripture is GOD s revelations/ words/ message. There should not be any need to define GOD/God as there is only one GOD.

The problem is that linguistically "God" can be described as the spirit of a burial mound. Also Isaiah speaks of those who have abandoned YHWH for GD.

[hawk99]

Peace,

   What parts of the Bible are reliable for doctrine?  Ans. The parts that agree with the Quran.

God bless you.


                                           

[Euphoric]

If that were true then how do you explain Michael Molnar's solution to the problem of the account of the star of Bethlehem?

Who is that, and why should I care what he said?

I am using the Quran and the New Testament and comparing them, and I find it obvious Jesus was an imposter and not a prophet of God.

The Jews were right for calling his execution.

[Theo]

Who is that, and why should I care what he said?

I am using the Quran and the New Testament and comparing them, and I find it obvious Jesus was an imposter and not a prophet of God.

The Jews were right for calling his execution.  

He is someone who is not a total dickhead. You should care because of Balaam's vision of the star and scepter.

[good logic]

Peace Theo.

God. ( ɡɒd) n. 1. (,Theology) theol the sole Supreme Being, eternal, spiritual, and transcendent, who is the Creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes(All knowing...etc)

 For me ,checking any " claimed scripture" is checking something sent/authored /originated from/by the above GOD.
Then this simple /obvious reasoning will tell us that the GOD above  has the perfect knowledge and will not do errors by definition
If the "claimed scripture" has evidenced errors,nonsense and contradictions-with solid proof that they are errors- then the errors cannot be from  the above defined GOD..

So, if one believes in GOD and believes GOD sent a scripture,surely they EXPECT that scripture to be ERRORLESS and absolute TRUTH!!!!!
Or they should not really believe in either or both .It will be contradictory

If one does not believe in GOD ,then there are no scriptures  as far as they are concerned..

It is honest ,truthful and logical that if one finds proven ERRORS,NONSENSE AND CONTRADICTIONS in any scripture they should deduce that these cannot be from GOD ( defined above).

Also, we are social animals. We do not live our own lives, we live our "expected/dictated/pressurized" life by society.
We conform to the majority or are made to conform to the majority.
Those trying to live their own lives are very few people in this world of "expectations". This is what most people see as reality, conforming to the systems of men.

Or one can ask what is our own life? This may lead them to reflect on themselves or should reflect.

But the magnet of society is too strong and keeps pulling us towards conformity.

So, the truth becomes irrelevant to the majority.
.Living our lives then will be dependent on the created, and we cut ourselves from the Creator. We take on other gods as a god and ignore The GOD.
Therefore we live our life the wrong way around ,the illusion becomes our reality and the reality becomes an illusion to us.

MY MESSAGE:

In the Qoran it says GOD gave us all the same identity-Humans- and we are all one community.
 It is us who prefer to divide ourselves into "sub communities" each rejoicing in their religions/ways  and oppressing others and lording it over others!!!

GOD also renews this message every time it becomes lost by the dividers.

All religions started as this plain and simple message:
Your GOD is one and your community is one. Follow the only authority-GOD Alone- and do not divide into sects of different religions

And the status quo continues unless we wake up to the reality of upholding the universal truth of all humans as one community and unite against all falsehood,division and fabrications by the dividers.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Bajram Hoxhaj]

Under the guidance of the clergy, people adopted hadith books such as Matthew and Mark as Injeel. Unfortunately, whatever the experts from the top say, you adopt them like a robot without questioning.

At least robots have basic if-then-else logic, unlike you, who reads verses on the same topic as separate, even those in sequence, and likewise believes Isa and Musa lived at the same time; hence, you don't know who his followers were, and certainly not these according to you.

[Emre_1974tr]

Of course, this is what I talk about in my work. Please read all the pages.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609978.0

And;

The Book of Enoch
The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Book of Jesus Christ
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
♦ The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)
♦ The Epistle of Barnabas
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
♦ The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
♦ The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
The History of Susana


The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan (The First and Second Book of Adam and Eve)
The Secrets of Enoch (also known as the Slavonic Enoch or Second Enoch)
The Psalms of Solomon
The Odes of Solomon
The Letter of Aristeas
The Fourth Book of Maccabees
The Story of Ahikar
Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs


And there are many such hadith books written by people. Priests and other clergymen, etc. adopted some of these books as Injeel or Holy book or Torah or Zebur and made people adopt this lie.

These are all hadith books written by human beings and other servants.

Just like Bukhari and Tirmizi.

None of these are holy books, none of these are verses.

To reject these books is not to reject the true Injeel.

And with these books, also the belief in the Trinity was accepted and instilled in people in Bursa, my hometown.

Under the guidance of the clergy, people adopted hadith books such as Matthew and Mark as Injeel. Unfortunately, whatever the experts from the top say, you adopt them like a robot without questioning.

Jesus was the nephew of Prophets Moses and Aaron

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612492.msg442619#msg442619