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"GOD" and Allahswt

Started by remfan1994, July 08, 2024, 04:10:28 AM

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remfan1994

I saw your modern translation of Qu'ran.  It is my recommendation that you cease to use this term "god" because of it's pagan connotations.  Allah (the spirit) is greater than a god in that any god and all gods are submitted to Allah.  Therefore it is incorrect to call Allah the god.  Worse, it is confusing, because people who have cultural backgrounds which indoctrinate them into a certain understanding of what a god is will have FALSE PRECONCEPTIONS regarding Allah!  Then they can read Qu'ran and not understand Qu'ran because you used what is like a CYBERSQUATTED word to describe Allah!

It is my opinion, shahada is interpretable in this way:
There is no god, yet there is the spirit.
As in, the idea there is a god is incorrect, however, what was meant by god is supreme being.  The Spirit, being the supreme being, is what there is in place of the God.  Therefore there is no god, yet there is Allah.  Alhamduillah.

Emre_1974tr

I suggest you abandon this pagan spiritist belief, my friend. repent and turn to Islam.
[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

[url="http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/"]http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/[/url]

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remfan1994

Pardon me, I'm not sure I was clearly understood.

In the name of the Spirit, the most beneficent, the most merciful
All strength is from the Spirit, the watcher of the worlds
The most beneficent, the most merciful,
The master on the day of judgement.
Only it to we worship, and only it do we seek help from.
It keeps us on the straight path --
the path of those upon whom favor is bestowed
not of those who incur the wrath
or those who go astray.  Amen.
The Spirit is greatest
Watchfulness is from the Spirit.
The Spirit is most high.

The Spirit, what is this we are talking about when we say "ALLAH"? 
The watcher of the worlds, from ROBIL, as in ROBIL-ALLAH, is ever over all existences, governing each world as it sees fit, and governing the interactions between the worlds.
AL-JABAR, the perfect system of physics (therefore, the master on the day of judgement, and the most beneficent)
And for full greatness we include morality in the physics, because AL-JABAR is not complete without morality, and morality is not complete without mercy.  From thence we have AR-RAHEEM.
There is not a better source of help, and so there is nothing else more worthy of worship besides ALLAH.
This is the straight path, a path that is not abominatory or strange, and other than it there is no better path.   

Here you can see I indeed have the same ALLAH as every Muslim does and ever has had, however, I disagree with the use of the word "GOD" because it was personally very confusing to me.  In coming from a background like USA where "GOD" is actually the pagan term used for Zeus, all references to GOD including christian sunday school all provoke paganism-based mental images of deism.

ALLAH is greater than all of the gods, if they were to really exist, because they would only be able to effect the world or interact with each other under the moderation of ALLAH -- subject to its supremacy of beneficence and mercy.  So ALLAH rules with beneficence and mercy regardless of if there are gods or not.  So paganism is irrelevant to the topic.

Therefore, you see, GOD is the pagan term, and SPIRIT is more scriptural -- in my research, I have found it to be a word used in ancient times to describe consciousness, and the ultimate spirit, ALLAH, is the spirit of all consciousnesses (or, as is commonly known to be written, "the spirit of all the living").

Emre_1974tr

Quote from: Emre_1974tr on July 08, 2024, 05:50:31 AMI suggest you abandon this pagan spiritist belief, my friend. repent and turn to Islam.

Nobody has got ghost according to Quran
Unlike the traditional Islamic doctrine which is under the influence of sects and hadith fabrications, in the real Islamic doctrine of the Quran people have NO ghosts/ souls/ spirits. People do NOT have a divine component, a soul, a spirit nor a ghost.

Everything created in the universe is material, physical and real, NOT an illusion. (for example the first man Adam was made from clay element and the jinn was made from fire element)

Heaven and Hell are NOT mental delusions. They are "physical" places created in another universe.

Unfortunately, terms such as soul- spirit (an immortal divine component, a ghost that can exist on its own without the body even after death) have succeed to enter Islam due to wrong translations -which are made under the influence of hadith fabrications- and Islamic mysticism (sufism). But in the original text of the Quran (Arabic version), they are NOT available.
In the Quran, people have "nafs", which is the equivalent of "life energy", "ego", "character". People are born, they die and they will be "physically" recreated in the Hereafter:

Does the human being think that We will not gather his bones? Indeed, We were able to make his fingertips (The Resurrection, 75: 3-4)

As also can be seen in the verses, people do NOT have souls/ spirits, they only have "nefs", which dies together with the bodily functions. And as again can be understood from the verses "most" of the people will be recreated in the Judgment Day. We use the word "most" because there are some exceptions. The Quran gives the examples of very meritorious people, such as martyrs or prophets and on the other edge some deadly sinners, such as the Pharaoh who committed outrage to his people.

These exceptional people have already started to reap what they have sown. They are either rewarded in Heaven (physically) or punished in Hell (physically).

Examples to the righteous who go to Heaven immediately after their death:

· Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions. Happy with what God has granted them from His favor, and they rejoice for those who have yet to follow them. There is no fear over them nor do they grieve. (The Family of Imran, 3: 169-170)

· A man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying: "O my people, follow the messengers. Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided. Why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return? Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Gracious intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me. Then I would be clearly astray. I have acknowledged your Lord, so listen to me! It was said, "Enter Paradise." He said "Oh, how I wish my people only knew of what my Lord has forgiven me, and made me of the honored ones."We did not send down upon his people after him soldiers from the sky; for there was no need to send them down. For all it took was one scream, whereupon they were stilled. (36:20-29)

Example to the disbelievers who committed "deadly" sins and tyranny:

· So God protected him from the evil of what they schemed, while the people of Pharaoh have incurred the worst retribution. The fire, which they will be exposed to morning and evening, and on the day when the moment is established: "Admit the people of Pharaoh into the most severe of the retribution." (The Believer, 40: 45-46)

And the following verses refer to the common/ordinary people, possibly the majority of the disbelievers:

· The horn will be blown, whereupon they will rise from the graves rushing towards their Lord. They will say, "Woe to us. Who has resurrected us from our resting place? This is what the Gracious had promised. The messengers were truthful!" (Ya sin, 36: 51-52)

In the Quran the word "Spirit" only refers to the "Holy Ghost/Spirit" and to the messages It brought. For example:

We gave Moses the book, and after him, We sent the messengers. Later We gave Jesus son of Mary the clear proofs, and We supported Him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a messenger comes to you with what your minds do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill! (2:87)

Such messengers, We have preferred some to others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in ranks, and We gave Jesus son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them acknowledged and some of them did not appreciate. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. (2:253)

God said, "O Jesus son of Mary, recall My blessings upon you and your mother that I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you spoke to the people in the cradle and in old age; and I taught you the book and the wisdom, and the Torah, and the Injeel; and you would create from clay the shape of a bird, then blow into it and it becomes a bird by My leave; and you heal the blind and the leper by My leave; and you brought out the dead by My leave. I have restrained the Children of Israel from you, that you came to them with proofs; but those who rejected amongst them said, "This is an obvious magic!" (5:110)

He sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants: "That you shall warn that there is no god but I, so be aware of Me." (16:2)

They ask you concerning the Spirit. Say, "The Spirit is from the command of my Lord, and the knowledge you were given was but very little." (17:85)
It was sent down with the trusted Spirit. (26:193)

Possessor of the highest ranks, the One with the Throne. He sends the Spirit with His command upon whom He wills from His servants, so that they may warn of the day of Summoning. (40:15)

You will not find any people who acknowledge God and the Last day befriending those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees trust into their hearts, and supports them with a Spirit from Him, and He admits them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath, wherein they will abide. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of God. Most assuredly, the party of God are the winners. (58:22)

The day when the Spirit and the angels stand in line, none will speak unless the Gracious permits him and he speaks what is true. (78:38)

Some dangers of thinking that people have spirits/ souls:

- Having a belief that people have spirits often leads up to the sanctification of the humans. It leads people to associate himself / herself with God.

- It also contributes to building up a strong belief of spiritual evolution. As a result of this false belief, in order to evolve spiritually, people praise suffering and pain. When they encounter a disastrous situation, instead of getting out of it, they welcome it and take it as a reward. However, according to the Quran, the bad things that come to us are either to test us or a result of our sins, our own malignancy.

- Spiritualists regard life as a school where we, as students, learn and mature. These people maintain that suffering / pain is a must for spiritual evolution. Thus, it turns the evil into hidden heroes having a special (key) role in the spiritual evolution process. Those who can read between the lines can easily realize that it glorifies the evil (even Satan). Also spiritualists
tolerate the immoral behaviors of the ones who are not spiritually evolved (!)

- Belief in the spirits opens the door to reincarnation, which means that we will be different creatures (different gender, different personality, different appearance etc.) in our other lives (!) In other words, it means that a person that dies is gone forever, which is actually a very materialistic point of view again if you read between the lines.

- Some spiritualists think that death is something positive as spirit confined to the physical body will be set free and unite with God and become one. This deviant view also praises suicides.

- People, who believe that people have spirits, mostly swap the belief for the Judgment Day with reincarnation and thus, they reject the belief in reward and punishment in the afterlife and eliminate Heaven and Hell, attributing symbolic meanings to both. In addition, they adopt ascetic lifestyles and scorn the beauties, provisions God gives us (in this world and in the other world).

- People who believe in the spirits are more likely to be cheated by the jinns.

Regards

[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

[url="http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/"]http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/[/url]

Emre_1974tr

1- Spirit is revelation,

2- holy spirit (the angel messenger conveying the message, revelation angel)

3- and revelation book (Quran).

Spirit= revelation.

Let's give examples.

1- Revelation
Quran [15:29] "So when I perfect him, and blow of My Spirit in him, you shall fall prostrate to him."

2- Revelation Angel (Cebrail).
Quran 19:17. Thus, she kept herself in seclusion from people. Then We sent to her Our spirit, and it appeared before her in the form of a perfect man.

3- Revelation Book/Quran
Quran 42:52 And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path -

spirit = revelation.
And basic verses in our body like Adam:

Quran 30:30So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.

We are obliged to direct the truth through the verses inside

****

And In the Qur'an, the spirit word is passed in singular form. The word "ervah", which is a plural of spirit, never goes in verses. This gives us another proof of the absence of souls.




Quote from: Emre_1974tr on July 08, 2024, 05:13:58 PMNobody has got ghost according to Quran
Unlike the traditional Islamic doctrine which is under the influence of sects and hadith fabrications, in the real Islamic doctrine of the Quran people have NO ghosts/ souls/ spirits. People do NOT have a divine component, a soul, a spirit nor a ghost.

Everything created in the universe is material, physical and real, NOT an illusion. (for example the first man Adam was made from clay element and the jinn was made from fire element)

Heaven and Hell are NOT mental delusions. They are "physical" places created in another universe.

Unfortunately, terms such as soul- spirit (an immortal divine component, a ghost that can exist on its own without the body even after death) have succeed to enter Islam due to wrong translations -which are made under the influence of hadith fabrications- and Islamic mysticism (sufism). But in the original text of the Quran (Arabic version), they are NOT available.
In the Quran, people have "nafs", which is the equivalent of "life energy", "ego", "character". People are born, they die and they will be "physically" recreated in the Hereafter:

Does the human being think that We will not gather his bones? Indeed, We were able to make his fingertips (The Resurrection, 75: 3-4)

As also can be seen in the verses, people do NOT have souls/ spirits, they only have "nefs", which dies together with the bodily functions. And as again can be understood from the verses "most" of the people will be recreated in the Judgment Day. We use the word "most" because there are some exceptions. The Quran gives the examples of very meritorious people, such as martyrs or prophets and on the other edge some deadly sinners, such as the Pharaoh who committed outrage to his people.

These exceptional people have already started to reap what they have sown. They are either rewarded in Heaven (physically) or punished in Hell (physically).

Examples to the righteous who go to Heaven immediately after their death:

· Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions. Happy with what God has granted them from His favor, and they rejoice for those who have yet to follow them. There is no fear over them nor do they grieve. (The Family of Imran, 3: 169-170)

· A man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying: "O my people, follow the messengers. Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided. Why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return? Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Gracious intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me. Then I would be clearly astray. I have acknowledged your Lord, so listen to me! It was said, "Enter Paradise." He said "Oh, how I wish my people only knew of what my Lord has forgiven me, and made me of the honored ones."We did not send down upon his people after him soldiers from the sky; for there was no need to send them down. For all it took was one scream, whereupon they were stilled. (36:20-29)

Example to the disbelievers who committed "deadly" sins and tyranny:

· So God protected him from the evil of what they schemed, while the people of Pharaoh have incurred the worst retribution. The fire, which they will be exposed to morning and evening, and on the day when the moment is established: "Admit the people of Pharaoh into the most severe of the retribution." (The Believer, 40: 45-46)

And the following verses refer to the common/ordinary people, possibly the majority of the disbelievers:

· The horn will be blown, whereupon they will rise from the graves rushing towards their Lord. They will say, "Woe to us. Who has resurrected us from our resting place? This is what the Gracious had promised. The messengers were truthful!" (Ya sin, 36: 51-52)

In the Quran the word "Spirit" only refers to the "Holy Ghost/Spirit" and to the messages It brought. For example:

We gave Moses the book, and after him, We sent the messengers. Later We gave Jesus son of Mary the clear proofs, and We supported Him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a messenger comes to you with what your minds do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill! (2:87)

Such messengers, We have preferred some to others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in ranks, and We gave Jesus son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them acknowledged and some of them did not appreciate. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. (2:253)

God said, "O Jesus son of Mary, recall My blessings upon you and your mother that I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you spoke to the people in the cradle and in old age; and I taught you the book and the wisdom, and the Torah, and the Injeel; and you would create from clay the shape of a bird, then blow into it and it becomes a bird by My leave; and you heal the blind and the leper by My leave; and you brought out the dead by My leave. I have restrained the Children of Israel from you, that you came to them with proofs; but those who rejected amongst them said, "This is an obvious magic!" (5:110)

He sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants: "That you shall warn that there is no god but I, so be aware of Me." (16:2)

They ask you concerning the Spirit. Say, "The Spirit is from the command of my Lord, and the knowledge you were given was but very little." (17:85)
It was sent down with the trusted Spirit. (26:193)

Possessor of the highest ranks, the One with the Throne. He sends the Spirit with His command upon whom He wills from His servants, so that they may warn of the day of Summoning. (40:15)

You will not find any people who acknowledge God and the Last day befriending those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees trust into their hearts, and supports them with a Spirit from Him, and He admits them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath, wherein they will abide. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of God. Most assuredly, the party of God are the winners. (58:22)

The day when the Spirit and the angels stand in line, none will speak unless the Gracious permits him and he speaks what is true. (78:38)

Some dangers of thinking that people have spirits/ souls:

- Having a belief that people have spirits often leads up to the sanctification of the humans. It leads people to associate himself / herself with God.

- It also contributes to building up a strong belief of spiritual evolution. As a result of this false belief, in order to evolve spiritually, people praise suffering and pain. When they encounter a disastrous situation, instead of getting out of it, they welcome it and take it as a reward. However, according to the Quran, the bad things that come to us are either to test us or a result of our sins, our own malignancy.

- Spiritualists regard life as a school where we, as students, learn and mature. These people maintain that suffering / pain is a must for spiritual evolution. Thus, it turns the evil into hidden heroes having a special (key) role in the spiritual evolution process. Those who can read between the lines can easily realize that it glorifies the evil (even Satan). Also spiritualists
tolerate the immoral behaviors of the ones who are not spiritually evolved (!)

- Belief in the spirits opens the door to reincarnation, which means that we will be different creatures (different gender, different personality, different appearance etc.) in our other lives (!) In other words, it means that a person that dies is gone forever, which is actually a very materialistic point of view again if you read between the lines.

- Some spiritualists think that death is something positive as spirit confined to the physical body will be set free and unite with God and become one. This deviant view also praises suicides.

- People, who believe that people have spirits, mostly swap the belief for the Judgment Day with reincarnation and thus, they reject the belief in reward and punishment in the afterlife and eliminate Heaven and Hell, attributing symbolic meanings to both. In addition, they adopt ascetic lifestyles and scorn the beauties, provisions God gives us (in this world and in the other world).

- People who believe in the spirits are more likely to be cheated by the jinns.

Regards


[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

[url="http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/"]http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/[/url]

remfan1994

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm coming through clear.  I made no statement concerning heaven or hell or the afterlife, only what is ALLAH and how GOD is not an appropriate title.

It is true this is related to the word "SPIRIT" however, it is not true that I am referring to the spiritism you are apparently trying to accuse me of referring to.  In this way, it is like you're under the enchantment I describe previously, where I said the term GOD was not useful to convey a description of ALLAH because of a conditioning existing prior to the conversation.  Similarly, it seems like you're not understanding my use of the word SPIRIT due to a conditioning existing prior to the conversation!

When I said I have discerned the word SPIRIT is used in scripture to describe what is known as CONSCIOUSNESS in scientific terminology, let me elaborate.  This has nothing to do with the metaphysics you accuse me of (such as a "divine component").

CONSCIOUSNESS, in the medical sense of the term!  When one is passed out, they are UNCONSCIOUS, and when one is drunkened, their CONSCIOUSNESS is compromised!  When one is security guard who is carefully mindful of who and/or what they are guarding, they are CONSCIOUS of the status of who and/or what they guard!

THIS is what I meant by the use of the term SPIRIT, because in my research of the scripture I have found that is what is referred to when the term SPIRIT is used.  For example:

ROBIL ALLAH - Watchfulness is from the Spirit, as the watcher is CONCSIOUS of what they watch
AR-RAHEEM - The Spirit is most merciful, because CONSCIOUSNESS is sympathetic to other CONSCIOUSNESS
AR-RAHMAN - The Spirit is most beneficent, because CONSCIOUSNESS is required to design systems with technical efficiency.
MALIKI YAO-MIDEEN - Judgement is obviously a function of CONSCIOUSNESS and dependent on CONSCIOUSNESS
iyaka na budu wa iyaka nastaeen - One should never seek help from other than CONSCIOUSNESS, only CONSCIOUSNESS is worshipable
and so on.

However to resort to Biblical examples is also possible
for example:
I am THAT I AM - a reference to CONSCIOUSNESS in the form of "I am", the self-affirmation of a conscious being.  This should make sense in the context of the law that was introduced at the same time, as the law is designed to protect conscious beings.

Spirit of All the Living, or, Living Spirit - that is a reference to consciousness in the form of the word Living, as anything with consciousness in it is living.

For when Samuel was resurrected by the necromancress, and she was asked "what did you see?" and she said "A spirit rose up from the ground" it makes sense she refers to the CONSCIOUSNESS of the deceased, and the word in hebrew used for spirit is ELOH, phonetically similar to ALLAH, or The (AL) Spirit (LAH).

Enough examples now.

All living things have a consciousness, however ALLAH represents the greatness of all consciousnesses combined.  This was useful in the case of THAT I AM, to determine the best outcome for judicial cases in the establishment of the law.  To do what is best for consciousness (the most merciful thing to do) is obviously the outcome we should all want from a legal system.  The will of THAT I AM, then, is that what is best for everybody is what shall be done.  What is best for everybody is determined by the effect of the action on their consciousnesses, and who will suffer loss or pain, and who will enjoy gain or pleasure.  These have to be balanced in fairness (most beneficent) to the end that the least evil is manifest (most merciful)

so consciousness is at the root of morality, and morality is at the root of religion, and religion is at the root of scripture, and it is true then: consciousness is the root of scripture.  Therefore the interpretation of what is ALLAH is related to CONSCIOUSNESS, not THEOLOGY, DEISM, or other mystical deviations!

Emre_1974tr

Quote from: Emre_1974tr on July 08, 2024, 05:50:31 AMI suggest you abandon this pagan spiritist belief, my friend. repent and turn to Islam.

Our video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXA38GeVM6k
[url="https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr"]https://twitter.com/Emre_1974tr[/url]

[url="http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/"]http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/[/url]

remfan1994

Quote from: Emre_1974tr on July 08, 2024, 07:09:05 PMOur video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXA38GeVM6k

Two things to say to respond to this video:
1. Why is this a video?  If you just post the text it is more efficient to transmit and consume -- not to mention more accessible (to the disabled) and more compatible (to those on diverse computer systems).

and more on topic:

2. If you won't stop accusing me of New Age you will lose credibility -- I made no mention of these oddities like ET or psychic powers.  Obviously I am based on the scripture and on practical mundane reality and have not made so much as the slightest suggestion of the supernatural, magical, or superstitious.

I can't believe you linked me to that video.  How can you still think I am pushing a magic?  Are you OK?  Why can't you see my post is based on morality and not mysticism?  Look, I have defined SPIRIT as CONSCIOUSNESS according to ROBIL ALAMEEN -- how is that magic?

jkhan

Quote from: remfan1994 on July 08, 2024, 04:10:28 AMThere is no god, yet there is the spirit.


Peace... Hey welcome...

What do you mean by The Spirit? Shall I take the dictionary meaning or do you have a specific definition for it.. pls enlighten me..

after explaining the above...

Pls translate the below verse for info

La Ilaha Illa Quawa
La Ilaha Illa Ana


Thank you brother/sister.. :laugh:
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