Author Topic: When is the month of Ramandan?  (Read 5573 times)

KDC501

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When is the month of Ramandan?
« on: June 11, 2011, 04:45:17 PM »
I?ve been doing a lot of reading over the pass few days to try and see if I can come to a conclusion when exactly is the month of fasting. So far I believe that the number of days of fasting should be ten days. However in regards to when exactly the month of Ramadan is I?m still uncertain.  

I?ve heard two theories that relate to this topic

-   It is during the Winter Solstice
-   It is after the Summer Solstice

In regards to the Islamic calendar, I don?t trust it since I believe a year consists of 365 days not 354 or 355 days. Please note that  ?a day? occurs 365 times in the Quran.

Does anyone have any sort of information there will like to share relating to this topic.

miah

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 06:53:42 PM »
Ramdan start 18 february  to 18 march every years accounting to sun calendar .
First time ramdan started in spring season.

kgwithnob

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2011, 07:37:59 PM »

truthseeker171

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 12:46:29 AM »

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.
First full moon after summersolstice

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600410.0
Duration of fasting - 10 or 3 days


Peace,
Truthseeker

Disclaimer: the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 17:36.

KDC501

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 11:39:34 AM »
For a few days now I?ve been at odds as to when exactly is the Night of Decree. However after  reading some articles and doing some research on my own here's what I've come up with.

The Facts

1)  This night is special. It is the night in which God sends the Spirit and the Angels. It is also the night in which the Quran was sent and it is located on the month of Ramadan.

Sura 97:1 -5

We have sent it down in the Night of Decree.
Do you know what the Night of Decree is?
The Night of Decree is better than one thousand months.
The angels and the Spirit come down in it by their Lord's leave to carry out every matter.
It is peaceful until the coming of dawn.

Sura 2:185 The month of Ramadan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, those of you who witness the month shall fast therein. Whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God because He has guided you, that you may be thankful.


2) The Angels and the Spirit appear to Zechariah and Mary during this period (the Night of Decree)

Sura 3:38-39  It was then that Zechariah called on his Lord, he said, "My Lord, grant me from You a good progeny; You are hearer of the prayers.?
The angels called to him while he was standing and praying in the temple enclosure: "God gives you good tidings of John, authenticating a word from God, respectable, protected, and a prophet from the reformers."


Sura 3:45 The angels said, "O Mary, God gives good news of a word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. Honorable in this world and in the Hereafter, and from among those who are made close."

Sura 19:17  She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our Spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human in all similarity.

3) Mary was also from the family of Imran when she was taken into Zechariah?s care.

Sura 66:12 Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who maintained her chastity. So We blew into her from Our Spirit, and she acknowledged the words of her Lord and His books; and she was of those who were obedient.

Sura 3:37 So her Lord accepted her with a good acceptance, and made her grow like a flower, and charged Zechariah with her. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said, "O Mary, from where did you get this?" She said, "It is from God, God provides for whom He wishes without computation."

Note : Imram is believe to be the family of Moses and Aaron (They were also Levites according to the Bible)


Now in the bible Zechariah was a priest in the temple of Jerusalem
So it can be assumed that Mary lived in Jerusalem. For those who have read the Bible would know that the  Levites (descendants of Aaron and Moses) were the care keepers and priests of the Temple. So it be assumed that Zechariah and Mary were some how related.

Please note that the temple mentioned in Sura 3:37 was located in Jerusalem and no where else.


Now when I place the Winter Solstice theory with the events that occurred with  Mary...


19:16 Relate in the book Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
19:17 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our Spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human in all similarity.

Question : Why did Mary withdrew from her family? Was she fasting?


In any case at that period the Spirit and the angels appeared to her and told her that she will bear a son. About nine months later she bore Jesus. During that period the dates were ripen.

Sura 19:25 "Shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will cause ripe dates to fall upon you."

Now  if the winter solstice is around December 21 or 22nd  and a baby takes about  nine months to be born then Jesus was born somewhere around late September or early October

Now here?s a link that shows when dates ripen in Palestine:

http://www.bible-history.com/geography/seasons_months_israel.html

? October. (Heshvan, wheat, barley sowing). Farmers would be finishing with their grape and fig harvests, olives would be gathered, the fattened sheep would be slaughtered, and the sugarcane and dates would ripen, plowing would begin and the rains would loosen up the hard dry ground. During October were the heavier rains known in Scripture as "the former rains."


I find that the 'Summer Solstice theory' is too vague and lacks Quranic evidence. I?ve heard Ramadan means ?scorching heat and dryness? but I have also read that it means ?hope? (like a month of hope if used in context with other verses) which to me sounds more plausible. Also the fact that the night is more revered than the day in the Quran can?t be just a coincidence.

Besides the issue of when exactly the month Ramadan is,  I've  read on this forum (which is believed by some) that there is a separate Ramadan for those who are in the Southern Hemisphere such as myself. But this idea to me doesn't make any sense since the Quran never said that they were 'Night's of Decree' or 'months of Ramadan'. From my understanding there is only ONE Night of Decree.

kgwithnob

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 12:21:37 PM »
Quote
Besides the issue of when exactly the month Ramadan is,  I've  read on this forum (which is believed by some) that there is a separate Ramadan for those who are in the Southern Hemisphere such as myself. But this idea to me doesn't make any sense since the Quran never said that they were 'Night's of Decree' or 'months of Ramadan'. From my understanding there is only ONE Night of Decree.
The red highlight above is from me.

Month of Ramadzan is based on the Islamic lunar calendar year. Lunar year is about 11 days shorter than the solar year. The four seasons of the year are also based on the solar calendar. That is why the Islamic lunar months rotate around the four seasons once every 35 years. By the same token Ramadzan moves around the four seasons too. It may fall in spring, summer, fall, and or winter. This year, Ramadzan 2011, timing is as follows:

July 31 ? August 29 (most of North America, South America, Northwest Europe)
August 1 ? August 29 (South-east Europe, Turkey, Middle East, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Australia, etc.)

http://www.masjidtucson.org/submission/practices/ramadan/index.html

Peace,
Khalil



KDC501

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 01:48:00 PM »
The red highlight above is from me.

Month of Ramadzan is based on the Islamic lunar calendar year. Lunar year is about 11 days shorter than the solar year. The four seasons of the year are also based on the solar calendar. That is why the Islamic lunar months rotate around the four seasons once every 35 years. By the same token Ramadzan moves around the four seasons too. It may fall in spring, summer, fall, and or winter. This year, Ramadzan 2011, timing is as follows:

July 31 ? August 29 (most of North America, South America, Northwest Europe)
August 1 ? August 29 (South-east Europe, Turkey, Middle East, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Australia, etc.)

http://www.masjidtucson.org/submission/practices/ramadan/index.html

Peace,
Khalil



The current Islamic calendar (which is a lunar calendar)  is NOT correct according to the Quran.  The ?correct calendar? according to the Quran is a LuniSolar Calendar that is used by the Jews , Chinese and Hindus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar



How do we know that our calendar should be a  LuniSolar calendar and not a Solar or a Lunar one?

Sura 9:36 ?The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous."

Sura 9:37 "Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year, so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people." (This verse provides clear proof of a LuniSolar Calendar)

Can you find an additional month in a lunar calendar or a solar calendar?

Further evidence


Sura 17:12 "And We made  the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely."


Sura 10 : 5 "He is the One who made the sun to emit light, and the moon to reflect it, and He measured its phases; that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except for truth. He details the revelations for a people who know.

The ?muslims? have the wrong type of calendar. Lunar calendars are not to be used for locating the month of Ramadan and the restricted months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar

Check out this article from the forum. It provides a better explanation http://free-minds.org/calendars

Peace,

Kevin D.Cooper  :peace:

kgwithnob

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 02:55:13 PM »

The current Islamic calendar (which is a lunar calendar)  is NOT correct according to the Quran.  The ?correct calendar? according to the Quran is a LuniSolar Calendar that is used by the Jews , Chinese and Hindus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar



How do we know that our calendar should be a  LuniSolar calendar and not a Solar or a Lunar one?

Sura 9:36 ?The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous."

Sura 9:37 "Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year, so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people." (This verse provides clear proof of a LuniSolar Calendar)

Can you find an additional month in a lunar calendar or a solar calendar?

Dear Kevin,

I did highlighted your words above in red to show you that you are clearly contradicting yourself. The LuniSolar Calendar does not consistently have 12 months in them and every two or three years it turns into a 13-month year, and that is contradictory to The Qur?aan which sates that the umber of months must be 12 according to GOD?S creation and must not be changed around at all.

I'm pasting below from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar, to show you Your confusion and contradictory approach. Again the red highlights are from me for emphasis.

"Most lunar calendars are, in fact, lunisolar; such as the Chinese, Hebrew, and Hindu calendars, and most calendar systems used in antiquity.
All these calendars have a variable number of months in a year. The reason for this is that a year is not evenly divisible by an exact number of lunations, so without the addition of intercalary months the seasons would drift each year. This results in a thirteen-month year every two or three years"

Peace,
Khalil



KDC501

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 03:37:07 PM »
Dear Kevin,

I did highlighted your words above in red to show you that you are clearly contradicting yourself. The LuniSolar Calendar does not consistently have 12 months in them and every two or three years it turns into a 13-month year, and that is contradictory to The Qur?aan which sates that the umber of months must be 12 according to GOD?S creation and must not be changed around at all.

I'm pasting below from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar, to show you Your confusion and contradictory approach. Again the red highlights are from me for emphasis.

"Most lunar calendars are, in fact, lunisolar; such as the Chinese, Hebrew, and Hindu calendars, and most calendar systems used in antiquity.
All these calendars have a variable number of months in a year. The reason for this is that a year is not evenly divisible by an exact number of lunations, so without the addition of intercalary months the seasons would drift each year. This results in a thirteen-month year every two or three years"

Peace,
Khalil

Brother Khalil.


Sometimes I am not very good at explaining things so I asked you to read the article.  I?m fully aware that a LuniSolar calander can sometimes have 13 months. That is why it is the correct one. There is no contradiction in what I said.

9:36 The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.
9:37 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year, so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people.

If you read Sura 9:37 it becomes clear that the type of calendar that should be used is LuniSolar one and not a  lunar one which the ?Muslims? use. This is the only type of calendar that fits into the category of  ?additional months?

And yes God said that there are only 12 months. Hence whenever the 13 month should appear that month becomes null. This is implied by Sura 9:36


Peace ,

Kevin D.Cooper  :peace:

kgwithnob

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Re: When is the month of Ramandan?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 05:40:44 PM »
Brother Khalil.


Sometimes I am not very good at explaining things so I asked you to read the article.  I?m fully aware that a LuniSolar calander can sometimes have 13 months. That is why it is the correct one. There is no contradiction in what I said.

9:36 The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.
9:37 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year, so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people.

If you read Sura 9:37 it becomes clear that the type of calendar that should be used is LuniSolar one and not a  lunar one which the ?Muslims? use. This is the only type of calendar that fits into the category of  ?additional months?

And yes God said that there are only 12 months. Hence whenever the 13 month should appear that month becomes null. This is implied by Sura 9:36


Peace ,

Kevin D.Cooper  :peace:

The above red highlights are from me.

1st: If the 13th month, as you say, becomes ?NULL?, then why bother considering LuniSolar calendar as the ?correct? one? Just follow what GOD, swt, commands us to follow, i.e. use the pure Qur?aainc lunar calendar.

2nd: The subject of verse 9:36 is not about the number of months or "ADDITIONAL" months. It is in fact about the FOUR SACRED months of the year and the prohibition of acting wrongfully among us in those FOUR SACRED months. In 9:37 GOD, swt, prohibits the POSTPONEMENT and or the NULLIFICATION of the sacred months from one year to another based on desires of ingrates. 9:37 emphasizes on the four sacred months to be FOUR SPECIFIC FIXED MONTHS OF THE YEAR, EVERY YEAR, and that they must not be changed or be moved around from one year to another, at all.

Peace,
Khalil