Author Topic: Holographic Paradigm  (Read 3957 times)

Tay

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Holographic Paradigm
« on: April 21, 2005, 03:28:57 PM »
Peace All,

Here's a teaser before I begin my babble:

http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html
(the page states "Author Unknown", but in fact, it is taken from Michael Talbot's "The Holographic Universe")

In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of science.

Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.

Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light. Since traveling faster than the speed of light is tantamount to breaking the time barrier, this daunting prospect has caused some physicists to try to come up with elaborate ways to explain away Aspect's findings. But it has inspired others to offer even more radical explanations.

University of London physicist David Bohm, for example, believes Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram...

At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past. What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question. Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or will be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is possible, from snowflakes to quasars, from blue whales to gamma rays. It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of "All That Is."
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

Tay

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2005, 03:45:34 PM »
Peace Again,

OK, so I finished reading the book a while back and have since been contemplating heavily. This theory has completely refined my understanding of the universe. I say refined and not reshaped, as everything I understood, aside from a few anecdotal pages, is in complete harmony with what I've understood from the Qur'an thus far.

That the universe is interconnected is something I never doubted. But the degree to which this is evident opens up a whole new world.

the author states:

"If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected. The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky. Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide the various phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web."

More to come soon.

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

LoteTree

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 02:26:26 AM »
Hello Tay,

I was waiting for you to open this thread! :-)

Now lets begin :-)

The premise of the Holographic Principle is obviously fantastic! And the premise is that the every PART contains the WHOLE and that everything is infinitely interconnected.

What I find fascinating about the Holographic Principle is that this infinitely complex interconnections between the seen and the unseen, between the tangible and the intangible is something that have already been grasped intuitively and imaginatively by the Great Seers, Sages, Meditators and Mystics of the bygone ages of this world.

Buddhists have said objective reality does not exists
Mystics have said objective reality does not exists
Idealist have said that the objective reality does not exists
And now finally is science too confirming that objective reality does not exist?

This indeed will be an exciting development and indeed a paradigm shift in our thinking!

Regards,

Andya Primanda

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2005, 05:10:23 AM »
Peace all,

Speculations, schpeculations.  Be careful with speculations.

"If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected."

It always makes me wonder why certain kinds of people are so obsessed with the interconnectedness of all things.  What would it change in how we view our world?

The superhologram is still a theoretical construct.  

'Objective reality does not exist'

Then are we deceived by God into seeing what we thought as objective reality?
29:20
Say: 'Travel through the earth and see how Allah initiate creation!'

Tay

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2005, 05:50:37 AM »
Peace Lotetree,

Indeed it is exciting as science, though still not in the mainstream, is opening it's doors to open-ended possibilities. This, to me, is wonderful in the sense that a scientific approach is being used in studying natural phenomenon. Science is, in effect, bridging the gap to spirituality, albeit, in a counterculture sort of way. This id due in part to the acceptance of a holographic universe.

Peace Andya,

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It always makes me wonder why certain kinds of people are so obsessed with the interconnectedness of all things.


Why is it "certain kinds of people", and why is it an obsession, if someone, particularly with a scientific background, indeed finds an interconnection in life? It is usually the scientist who has experienced something extraordinary in life that seems to pursue these answers. Does that discredit the person?

Take Barbara Brennan, a former NASA physicist. She was born with a natural ability to view auras and heal through light imagery. She subdued this natural ability in order not to be ridiculed by the scientific community. Now she long since left NASA and has a school of healing in Florida. She doesn't care about her reputation as a physicist, she only cares about helping and healing people. Is there somethign wrong with this?

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What would it change in how we view our world?


Everything. When we realize that we are not seperate from but an integral part of the whole, we tend to shift our awareness towards taking better care of the whole, and taking more responsibility for our actions/inactions.

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The superhologram is still a theoretical construct.


So is evolution, the relation/existence of time and space, the anatomy of atomic particles, gravity, memory, etc. Everything is a theoretical construct.

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Then are we deceived by God into seeing what we thought as objective reality?


It's not a deception, it is a test. This oft-repeated throughout the Qur'an. The world is an illusion. We experience it only in our "nafs", as all perception takes place through the filter of the consciousness. Perception does not take place "out there", it takes place within. And God tells us that *He* is closer to us than our vena cava.

So if life is experienced "within", and God is "within", and God is ONE, what does that tell you?

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

LoteTree

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2005, 12:40:22 PM »
Quote from: "Tay"
Peace Lotetree,

Indeed it is exciting as science, though still not in the mainstream, is opening it's doors to open-ended possibilities. This, to me, is wonderful in the sense that a scientific approach is being used in studying natural phenomenon. Science is, in effect, bridging the gap to spirituality, albeit, in a counterculture sort of way. This id due in part to the acceptance of a holographic universe.



So Tay, if everything is interconnected then what does Micheal Talbot say about the meaning of life and death in this holographic universe?

Would it be merely changing of perception?


Regards,

Tay

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2005, 09:17:41 AM »
Peace LoteTree,

Just to be clear, Talbot compiled the information in his book. He's taken case studies and experiments, statistics and respected opinions, from all walks of "natural" and "unnatural" phenomenon, and plugged them into the holographic paradigm. He often leave concepts without conclusion, only providing the referenced evidence for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

So, to answer your question:
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what does Micheal Talbot say about the meaning of life and death in this holographic universe?
Would it be merely changing of perception?


When you say "meaning", we are getting into the "why" of things, which is only touched on, if I recall correctly, in the chapter on reincarnation. He goes to great lengths to neither endorse nor deny the possibility of reincarnation, but he does put forward some very interesting evidence in favor of it, such as children remembering some remote details and happenings that they would not have been privvy to. But I have my own understanding of these phenomena and that's another story entirely.

Nevertheless, the "why" of reincarnation is supposedly for the soul to experience the full range of the human experience. Living poor, rich, healthy, sick, wholistically, artificially, as an activist, as a pragmatist, etc. The soul must go through a certain number of phases in order to reach enlightenment. This is clearly reinforced in the Hindu philosophy.

What he does reference throughout the book, and more heavily in the chapter on NDE's, is the need to do "good" and to "love". He found that a large majority of folks who survive the near death experience find it to be life changing. Stock brokers quit their jobs and find more meaningful careers. People call everyone they know and express their feelings and forgiveness, and ask the same in return. They focus on what's really important, as opposed to what they thought was important, but turned out to be meaningless.

The NDE gives the best understanding, I feel, of the leap from physical life to physical death. Descriptions such as: "beautiful music unlike anything I've ever heard", and "bliss beyond words", and "knowing things instantaneously, without dialogue, just by seeking this knowledge", are commonplace among those who've experienced the NDE. Sadly, little of this knowldge comes back with them, only the memories of the experience.

And he referenced a 1981 Gallup Poll that stated 8 million Americans had experienced an NDE. In fact, George Gallup Jr., the president of the Gallup Poll, stated:
"A growing number of researchers have been gathering and evaluating the accounts of those who have had near-death encounters. And the preliminary results have been highly suggestive of some sort of encounter with an extradimensional realm of reality. Our own extensive survey is the latest in these studies and is also uncovering some trends that point to a super parallel universe of some sort."

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

LoteTree

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2005, 06:05:55 AM »
Hello Tay,

Quote from: "Tay"

Nevertheless, the "why" of reincarnation is supposedly for the soul to experience the full range of the human experience. Living poor, rich, healthy, sick, wholistically, artificially, as an activist, as a pragmatist, etc. The soul must go through a certain number of phases in order to reach enlightenment. This is clearly reinforced in the Hindu philosophy.


I always thought that allowing souls to experience full range of human experiences, intellectually more satisfying. And because of the reality of eternal hell is so terrible, I feel that it is more "just" for a compassionate and loving God to allow individuals infinite number of chances to redeem themselves before they stand before God. But I know apart from a single reference in the Quran, the whole reincarnational path to redemption is not supported by scripture. I wonder if science will ever open the gate to this elusive of all truths...
 
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What he does reference throughout the book, and more heavily in the chapter on NDE's,is the need to do "good" and to "love". He found that a large majority of folks who survive the near death experience find it to be life changing. Stock brokers quit their jobs and find more meaningful careers. People call everyone they know and express their feelings and forgiveness, and ask the same in return. They focus on what's really important, as opposed to what they thought was important, but turned out to be meaningless.


I always felt this need Tay, even from very early age. But love is not easy. People say love is easy. Love seems to be the hardest thing in the world. But I am still struggling to understand love. Some people say love is just another of human emotions. If it just another emotions then it is the Greatest emotion ever but there is more to love than what we can undertand with our human intellect. It seems love pervades the visible and the invisible.  

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The NDE gives the best understanding, I feel, of the leap from physical life to physical death. Descriptions such as: "beautiful music unlike anything I've ever heard", and "bliss beyond words", and "knowing things instantaneously, without dialogue, just by seeking this knowledge",


I have had dreams, dreams which I now understand to be "lucid" dreams in which I heard "most beautiful music" and sometimes "most exhilirating" happiness filled my heart. But these memories seems to fade quickly as opposed to memories experienced by NDE's. The memories of NDE seem to remain vivid throughout the course of their life. Will science ever unlock the higher dimensions to reality? I hope it does...

Regards,

Tay

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2005, 09:58:46 AM »
Peace LoteTree,

I hope all is well.

You stated:
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I always thought that allowing souls to experience full range of human experiences, intellectually more satisfying.


I'm a bit torn on the topic, as I feel one can experience the full range of the human experience in one day, let alone in one lifetime. At the same time, the anecdotal evidence in support of reincarnation is strong enough to point to some phenomenon, if not reincarnation itself.

I think folks are capable of tapping into the information layer of reality, the sort of library of human experience, and may fool themselves into thinking they've lived passed lives. Thoughts are energy, and energy doesn't disappear.

But it's all speculation at this point. Although reincarnation is an attractive idea, I don't see the 'need' for it, nor the logical progression that would include it.

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And because of the reality of eternal hell is so terrible, I feel that it is more "just" for a compassionate and loving God to allow individuals infinite number of chances to redeem themselves before they stand before God.


I agree that a chance for redemption is just, considering the consequences. But I haven't ruled out the idea that perhaps redemption is available in the afterlife itself. In other words, I don't think the idea of reincarnation is the only means of redemption, or even the best way to achieve this redemption.

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But I know apart from a single reference in the Quran, the whole reincarnational path to redemption is not supported by scripture


What reference are you speaking of? I smell a new thread.

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I always felt this need Tay, even from very early age.


Same here.  :wink:

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But love is not easy. People say love is easy. Love seems to be the hardest thing in the world.


Love is easy when we submit to it, when we allow ourselves to love and be loved. It is, I feel, the most natural experience. It makes sense without description.

Love is only difficult when *reality* interferes.

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Some people say love is just another of human emotions.


Love is the only emotion. All emotions stem from love. Anger, hate, lust, jealousy, ambivolence, peace, comfort, humor, etc., all indicate a level of love or lack thereof.

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Will science ever unlock the higher dimensions to reality?


As I stated in another thread, there does exist a sort of subculture among scientists that are certainly investigating natural phenomena. Mainstream science may never open it's doors to such *unscientific* ideas however, and this is not necessarily a bad thing. The rigidity of the scientific method is certainly it's strength. That's what keeps science strong throughout the ages.

But one should not fool themselves into thinking that the scope of science is all-inclusive of the ingredients of reality. Science is a tool for the tangible. As such it is vital to our growth. But it is one tool among many.

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

LoteTree

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Holographic Paradigm
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2005, 02:21:33 AM »
Hello Tay,

I am fine. Thanks. And I hope you are OK.

Quote from: "Tay"

I'm a bit torn on the topic, as I feel one can experience the full range of the human experience in one day, let alone in one lifetime. At the same time, the anecdotal evidence in support of reincarnation is strong enough to point to some phenomenon, if  not reincarnation itself.


I am divided on this too... but I am not sure if I can experience full range of human experience in a single day. There are so many things I would like to do but I don't have the time for it. I would love to abandon this "wage-slave" society that I live in and embark on a wholly contemplative lifestyle. But I know I can't. The Rules of domesticity does not allow me to do this. I am constrained by family commitments, financial resources, health etc. And even though I may able to renounce materialism in my soul but I can't escape the rules of domesticity that ties me to this existence.

The only way I can escape the shackles of modern society is through imaginations. It is through the imaginations that I can "live" out, in some way, a wide range of human experiences. I know perhaps imagination is not a substitute for real experiences. But if we could intellectually and imaginatively "grasp" it then these could be valid "experiences" that can make us spiritually grow?

But there is perhaps another way we could live out a wide range of human experiences and this by empathising with others. If we could feel the pain and joy of another individual in our hearts then we are experiencing that life are we not? If we can empathise with a disabled person then we are experiencing the nature of disability are we not?

And the key to empathising others is cultivating human compassion in ourselves. I think this is the message of all scriptures: Compassion. It is compassion that allows us to relate to others and experience their pain and sorrows. So perhaps you are right, there is no "need" for re-incarnational redemption as long as we can empathise with others. As long as we can feel ourselves the pain, sadness and joy of another individual then we are in a sense are experiencing those lives...

Quote from: "Tay"

What reference are you speaking of? I smell a new thread.


These verses below have been construed by some to echo re-incarnational thought in the scripture. But perhaps it is not convincing enough...  

"And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall
cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life,
and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." 2:28

Quote from: "Tay"

Love is the only emotion. All emotions stem from love. Anger, hate, lust,
jealousy, ambivolence, peace, comfort, humor, etc., all indicate a level of love or
lack thereof.


I agree and I am going to stand by it.

Quote from: "Tay"

But one should not fool themselves into thinking that the scope of science is all-inclusive of the ingredients of reality. Science is a tool for the tangible. As such it is vital to our growth. But it is one tool among many.


Agreed. But if science is using the same "language" of the mystics and religious sages then I think we must take notice. But in the end, I agree, science is a tool for the tangible and not the realm of the intangible that is the realm of the Divine...

Regards,