"Witchcraft" and "Sorcery"

[lordfox]

@Jafar

I like that picture very much, though Capitalism should be replaced by Democracy. I am very happy to see that more and more people are starting to understand that democracy is nothing but a sham.

That is why, we have to unite, and gather to form a community where true freedom will be. A community with no government, no man-made legislation and laws, no fiat money (etc.). It can be done, if we (not just the non-religious muslims, but all who believe in a stateless society) join hands and walk as one. Unfortunately it is much harder to act upon an idea, than to talk about it. Hopefully when the present society will collapse socially and economically, people will be more willing; but for now, the comfort of every day routine, and the illusory freedom and security governments bring seem to be enough to fool the general populace.

So let us join hand to workout the ulterior motiv.

Yes, please.
See the section 'society' on http://www.servantofthelight.com/

Good speech, though flawed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY

[Jafar]

I like that picture very much, though Capitalism should be replaced by Democracy. I am very happy to see that more and more people are starting to understand that democracy is nothing but a sham.

You should understand that the structure possess many 'names'.. thus there's no point of 'changing' it to anything..

It can be "Capitalism", "Communism", "Socialism", "Sharia", "Kingdom", "Sultanate", "Emirate", "Khilafa"/"Calphate" or anything... it doesn't matter as long as the structure remains the same..

"True Democracy" by itself is a wonderful concept where "The society organize and govern itself"..
Democracy put the power back to the people.. and not giving it away to 'ruler','sultan','king' or anything.. (and then the ruler pass the power to his own progeny to keep the power within the family)..

"True Democracy" however has a basic requirements of empowered people who are able and 'mature' enough to govern and control + put a restrain upon themselves and also upon the 'administrator'.. Which might not necessarily be the case on some society..

That is why, we have to unite, and gather to form a community where true freedom will be. A community with no government, no man-made legislation and laws, no fiat money (etc.).

1. There should be a form of 'administration' and 'judges' to resolve conflicts...
Man made legislation is not necessarily bad.. and to be truly honest.. all legislation and law are man made..
And that's the way it should be... the people should be ruled by the rules that they themselves agree.. it might not be perfect and continuously changing thus improved to meet the demand / solve problem within certain time.
What is "correct" now might not be "correct" on different time and place..
And the 'administrator' + 'judges' shall act in accordance to those "Men and women made rule".

2. Fiat money is not bad either... and to be frank all form of money / token of exchange are fiat money.. that is if you truly understand what "Fiat money" is..

It can be done, if we (not just the non-religious muslims, but all who believe in a stateless society) join hands and walk as one. Unfortunately it is much harder to act upon an idea, than to talk about it. Hopefully when the present society will collapse socially and economically, people will be more willing; but for now, the comfort of every day routine, and the illusory freedom and security governments bring seem to be enough to fool the general populace.

There will be time.....

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
-- John Lennon

Salam / Peace

[Kaiokenred]

You should understand that the structure possess many 'names'.. thus there's no point of 'changing' it to anything..

It can be "Capitalism", "Communism", "Socialism", "Sharia", "Kingdom", "Sultanate", "Emirate", "Khilafa"/"Calphate" or anything... it doesn't matter as long as the structure remains the same..

"True Democracy" by itself is a wonderful concept where "The society organize and govern itself"..
Democracy put the power back to the people.. and not giving it away to 'ruler','sultan','king' or anything.. (and then the ruler pass the power to his own progeny to keep the power within the family)..

"True Democracy" however has a basic requirements of empowered people who are able and 'mature' enough to govern and control + put a restrain upon themselves and also upon the 'administrator'.. Which might not necessarily be the case on some society..


1. There should be a form of 'administration' and 'judges' to resolve conflicts...
Man made legislation is not necessarily bad.. and to be truly honest.. all legislation and law are man made..
And that's the way it should be... the people should be ruled by the rules that they themselves agree.. it might not be perfect and continuously changing thus improved to meet the demand / solve problem within certain time.
What is "correct" now might not be "correct" on different time and place..
And the 'administrator' + 'judges' shall act in accordance to those "Men and women made rule".

2. Fiat money is not bad either... and to be frank all form of money / token of exchange are fiat money.. that is if you truly understand what "Fiat money" is..


There will be time.....

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
-- John Lennon

Salam / Peace

Go learn about the Natural Law, which is Allah's law. We don't need any legislations. Law does need inventing.

[lordfox]

"True Democracy" by itself is a wonderful concept where "The society organize and govern itself"..
Democracy put the power back to the people.. and not giving it away to 'ruler','sultan','king' or anything.. (and then the ruler pass the power to his own progeny to keep the power within the family)..

When I say democracy, I speak of parliamentary democracy.

1. There should be a form of 'administration' and 'judges' to resolve conflicts...

Of course there should, trustworthy impartial men.

 

Man made legislation is not necessarily bad.. and to be truly honest.. all legislation and law are man made..
And that's the way it should be... the people should be ruled by the rules that they themselves agree.. it might not be perfect and continuously changing thus improved to meet the demand / solve problem within certain time.

If all the people agree upon universal law, then there is no problem. Though, one cannot allow enslaved minds to make these kind of decisions, as the choices will not work for the good of everyone (eg: the stoning of the fornicator and so on).

 

What is "correct" now might not be "correct" on different time and place..

Give me an example.

 

2. Fiat money is not bad either... and to be frank all form of money / token of exchange are fiat money.. that is if you truly understand what "Fiat money" is..

So for you, a system where money is not backed by a physical commodity is good?

[Kaiokenred]

Democracy is choosing your own dictator.

Why should the retarded majority choose who will rule the state?
And that's ignoring the fact that there can't be any other sovereigns except Allah

[farida]

 "Witchcraft" and "Sorcery" derailed to de-mockery
I am only trying to defuse the spell 
Why do people shy away from discussing this trick which is played upon us all the time

[Jafar]

If all the people agree upon universal law, then there is no problem. Though, one cannot allow enslaved minds to make these kind of decisions, as the choices will not work for the good of everyone (eg: the stoning of the fornicator and so on).

Democracy is merely a 'system' it has nothing to do with good or bad..
Again the main point is: it goes back to the society..
A cruel democratic society shall pass on and enforce cruel law...

While within 'ruler based system' a cruel ruler/warlord/king/Sultan/dictator/High Priest/Powermonger can impose cruel law to a good society...

That's why Quran address directly the root of all evil... the people within the society itself...

Give me an example.

A law pass on within a society to forbid killing / slaughtering of animal by burning...
Suddenly a bird flu endemic came by..
The law need to be revised to allow killing / slaughtering of chicken and birdies by burning, as 'burning' is deemed as the 'safest' method to stop the widespread of the disease..

So for you, a system where money is not backed by a physical commodity is good?

It's neither good or bad.. it's neutral...
And you think a 'token of exchange' not backed by 'physical commodity' is bad??? Explain why...

You must be thinking of "Gold" in mind.. is gold backed by something else rather than "Gold"??
Gold is a "Fiat Money" too..

The only "Non Fiat Money" that I ever came across is "Prepaid Minutes".. yes.. "Prepaid Mobile Communication Services Prepaid Minutes"... Somewhere in sub-saharan africa where banks and/or financial institution have limited coverage thus 'paper based money' is in limited supply, Mobile Communication Service Provider are there providing their radio signal..

As a result people there do their trading / business by exchanging / transferring 'minutes' from their mobile phone as payment. And unlike Gold, Feathers (was common in South America), Seashells (was common in the Pacific), you can actually 'consume your money' by calling or texting somebody..

Again this example is neither good or bad, it's neutral..

Salam / Peace

[Bigmo]

@lordfox.

Your assessment is 100% spot on.

The word "sihr" means exactly that: to deceive, create an illusion, or trick someone.
And it sure as Hell can be done by words alone. This is why the rejectors dissmissed Muhammad's WORDS as "sihr" (meaning: deception / glamour / trickery).

The same can be said of Musa when he stood face to face with Far3oun and his goons. His "stick" became a snake which "swallowed up" their illusions and exposed their lies. It's all a metaphor.

It was not a magic show a - la David Copperfield that Far3oun's men performed, but a deception with words. It was an argument...a debate. This is why Musa asked Allah to allow him to bring his brother Haroon along with him, because the latter was more articulate and stronger of argument.

Far3oun, through his deception and team of clergy, DECEIVED the people into making them think they were free citizens, living under his care and protection, when in truth they were all slaves to his will.

The most obvious verse which makes this clear is:   

{So Moses cast down his stick, and it exposed all their lies}...[26:45]

Here is the Arabic text of the above verse:

فألقى موسى عصاه فإذا هي تلقف ما يأفكون

You see that last underlined word?  It is "ya'fikoon", which comes from  ifk

The word "ifk"  إفك  quite simply means great slander or lie. (Just like the great ifk which the rejecters perpetrated when they accused some women of adultry, when the latter sought refuge with believing men. Same word, same meaning).

It does not mean a magic show. The "casting of the stick" is metaphor for "presenting his argument".

The story of Musa and his confrontation with Far3oun needs to be understood on two levels:

1- The actual historical event: There was indeed a figure named Musa, who liberated a small tribe of goat herders by the name of Bani Israel. This event did take place in Arabia's distant and frgotten past.

2- The metaphoric and symbolic level. It speaks of mankind's eternal struggle against the deception of rulers and tyrants. Look around you and see what the "political" systems have accomplished for the people. Far3oun - Haman - Qaroon are symbols of the demonic triangle of politicians - clergy - financiers (rich elite) who have been enslaving people for ages.

The "sheeple" of the world, however, are hardly aware of what's going on, because the "sihr" of Far3oun is at work everywhere:  blogging their minds with lying media, sports, concerts, staged events (moonlanding, 9/11, artificial wars, underwear plane bombers, Al-Qaeda, terrorist threats), you name it....All this "sihr" is designed for one purpose only: to confiscate our freedom.

The so-called "Muslims" flock like sheep every year to perform pagan rituals around a cubic structure, yelling "Labbayka Allahumma labbayk" (I answer to you, Oh Allah!), at the top of their throats, when the truth is that they worship no one but their presidents, mullahs, and banks.

Incidently you might want to know this: The word "GOVERNMENT" comes from Latin "Gobern-mente".

Gobern = control
Mente = mind

Hence, GOVERNMENT is all about mind control through deception ("sihr")

There's the truth for you.

The way I read the verse is the reason why the magiicians bowed to Moses was precisely because they knew what he performed was a miracle and not an illusion that they were doing. The Koran tells us that they were actually deceiving the eye but their ropes did not turn to snake but Moses's stick did. The magicians knew that this was not possible, it took them to know the difference since its their profession.

Plus your understandimg of paganism has nothig to do with paganism. There is nothing called a pagan ritual, paganism is not a ritual, its a theology.

[Mr.Q]

Another reason it probably shouldn't be understood as a metaphor is 27:9-12. There was only Moses and God and nobody to "debate" and no reason why Moses would run away in fear of "his argument".

"O Moses, it is I God, the Noble, the Wise, and throw down your staff." So when he saw it vibrate as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and did not turn back. "O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me, except one who transgresses, but then he replaces the evil deed with good, then I am Forgiving, Merciful, and place your hand into your pocket; it will come out white with no blemish, one of nine signs to Pharaoh and his people." (27:9-12)