Author Topic: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden  (Read 184 times)

Safe_from_sweden

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Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« on: June 19, 2022, 01:54:55 PM »
I understood for the sake of verse 6: 151 that what is forbidden (harrame) is better understood and translated as sanctioned because sanction can at the same time include something that is approved (positive sanction) or disapproved (negative sanction). The verse begins with the words "Qul te’alev etlü mā harrame rabbüküm’ aleyküm ”- Say,“ Come I may recite what your Lord has forbidden you: ... ”and then 5 things are listed. As you can see 4 of them have a negative charge in them while the number 2 has a positive charge instead of a negation. There is obviously something illogical here if we start from the understanding that haram means only something that is not approved.

1. that you do not associate anything with Him;
2. that you are good to your parents;
3. that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them;
4. that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward;
5. that you do not kill any person Allah has made inviolate - except with the right to do so.

If we understand haram as a sanction that can approve or disapprove of something at the same time, then this verse seems quite clear.

Say, Come I may recite what your Lord has sanctioned you:
that you do not associate anything with Him;
that you are good to your parents;
that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them;
that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward;
that you do not kill any person Allah has made inviolate - except with the right to do so.
That He has enjoined you with, that possibly you would consider.

Fusion

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Re: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2022, 02:09:04 PM »
I understood for the sake of verse 6: 151 that what is forbidden (harrame) is better understood and translated as sanctioned because sanction can at the same time include something that is approved (positive sanction) or disapproved (negative sanction). The verse begins with the words "Qul te’alev etlü mā harrame rabbüküm’ aleyküm ”- Say,“ Come I may recite what your Lord has forbidden you: ... ”and then 5 things are listed. As you can see 4 of them have a negative charge in them while the number 2 has a positive charge instead of a negation. There is obviously something illogical here if we start from the understanding that haram means only something that is not approved.

1. that you do not associate anything with Him;
2. that you are good to your parents;
3. that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them;
4. that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward;
5. that you do not kill any person Allah has made inviolate - except with the right to do so.

If we understand haram as a sanction that can approve or disapprove of something at the same time, then this verse seems quite clear.

Say, Come I may recite what your Lord has sanctioned you:
that you do not associate anything with Him;
that you are good to your parents;
that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them;
that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward;
that you do not kill any person Allah has made inviolate - except with the right to do so.
That He has enjoined you with, that possibly you would consider.

The word haram or harrama does not exactly translate to haram (prohibit) as per my understanding it means what is made binding for you.
For example in Saudia, the makka main mosque is called Masjid alharam and it has no negative charge.

Please am also a learner, and this is what I understood any one correct or guide .
Best Regards,

jkhan

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Re: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2022, 07:57:58 PM »
I understood for the sake of verse 6: 151 that what is forbidden (harrame) is better understood and translated as sanctioned because sanction can at the same time include something that is approved (positive sanction) or disapproved (negative sanction). The verse begins with the words "Qul te’alev etlü mā harrame rabbüküm’ aleyküm ”- Say,“ Come I may recite what your Lord has forbidden you: ... ”and then 5 things are listed. As you can see 4 of them have a negative charge in them while the number 2 has a positive charge instead of a negation. There is obviously something illogical here if we start from the understanding that haram means only something that is not approved.

1. that you do not associate anything with Him;
2. that you are good to your parents;
3. that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them;
4. that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward;
5. that you do not kill any person Allah has made inviolate - except with the right to do so.

If we understand haram as a sanction that can approve or disapprove of something at the same time, then this verse seems quite clear.

Say, Come I may recite what your Lord has sanctioned you:
that you do not associate anything with Him;
that you are good to your parents;
that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them;
that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward;
that you do not kill any person Allah has made inviolate - except with the right to do so.
That He has enjoined you with, that possibly you would consider.

peace...
this particular word has many glaring meaning... It can be restricted / prohibited or forbidden it can also mean INVIOLABLE but in your case SANCTION i don't think it befits if you carefully look at the meaning of sanction..
note for me Haram is never SACRED...

"Say, Come I may recite what your Lord has made Inviolable to you:"

further, i have a personal understanding not related to translation or word Haram... but my understanding of this verse is that God says in this commandment don't associate with God anything but with parents goodness... here parents may be idolaters but don't associate and don't obey them but be good with them... these two verses are interconnected.. my understanding don't take it as yours unless you verify

Safe_from_sweden

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Re: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2022, 11:49:18 AM »
I agree, it can mean as well inviolable.

Safe_from_sweden

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Re: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2022, 11:58:17 AM »
The word haram or harrama does not exactly translate to haram (prohibit) as per my understanding it means what is made binding for you.
For example in Saudia, the makka main mosque is called Masjid alharam and it has no negative charge.

Please am also a learner, and this is what I understood any one correct or guide .

Can you explain a little more what you think and give some examples, thanks

Fusion

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Re: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2022, 10:12:51 PM »
Can you explain a little more what you think and give some examples, thanks

I feel Jaffer has clarified my doubts and am ok with his version of explanation and also correct myself, thank you for understanding
Best Regards,

el_ishbili

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Re: Haram as something sanctioned instead of just forbidden
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2022, 08:03:02 AM »
Yes, based on this verse, the basic meaning of H-R-M may be of "comanding something, declaring something as inviolable...", as said before me, "al-Masjid al-Haram" whichs appears in 17:1 for example, is obviosuly not the "prohibited mosque" but the "sacred, inviolable... mosque".
However in many cases H-R-M can have the meaning of prohibiting by itself, specially regardings to food. See verse 5:96, where fishing during pilgrinage is declared as legal (H-L-L root used here) in contrast with hunting, which is declared ilegal (H-R-M).