Author Topic: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?  (Read 258 times)

Safe_from_sweden

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Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« on: June 15, 2022, 10:29:04 AM »
It should be clear by now that when looking for an answer in the Qur'an, the whole Qur'an should be taken into account, because otherwise we will come to the wrong conclusion. If we only went through verse 5: 5, we could conclude that it is permissible to eat the flesh of swine. Verse 5: 5 begins with the words "al-yawma uḥilla lakumu l-ṭayibātu waṭaʿāmu alladhīna ūtū l-kitāba ḥillun lakum" - "Today the good things are made lawful for you, and the food of the ones to whom the Book was brought is lawful to you ". Here it is important to pay attention to the fact that God sets a very important condition for food to be allowed to be eaten and that is to be pure (ṭayibātu). Let us now look at what is said in verse 6: 145 for the flesh of swine "qul lā ajidu fī mā ūḥiya ilayya muḥarraman ʿalā ṭāʿimin yaṭʿamuhu illā an yakūna maytatan aw daman masfūḥan aw laḥma khinzīrin fa-innahu rij'sun" - "Say: "I do not find in what has been revealed to me anything forbidden to eat except carrion, running blood, the flesh of swine — for that surely is impure (fa-innahu rij'sun) ...". The answer is therefore that the flesh of swine is forbidden to eat because it is impure. I hope our brothers will pay attention to this.

But..

What we can logically ask ourselves is whether we are allowed to eat pork if the pork has undergone a process of the sterilisation or the pasteurisation?


1_Erik_21

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2022, 05:54:15 AM »
Not gonna lie you are making me confused

Safe_from_sweden

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2022, 12:22:23 PM »
We have to consider even the verses 20:80-81 which says:
20:80 "O Children of Israel! We saved you from your enemy, and made an appointment with you on the right side of Mount Ṭûr, and sent down to you manna and quails,"
20:81 "Use from the pure things We have provided for you(kulū min ṭayyibāti mā razaqnākum), but do not transgress in them, or My wrath will befall you. And whoever My wrath befalls is certainly doomed."

We see again the same condition stated in 5:5 and in 20:81 and that is to use what is pure.

jkhan

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2022, 07:54:05 PM »
It should be clear by now that when looking for an answer in the Qur'an, the whole Qur'an should be taken into account, because otherwise we will come to the wrong conclusion. If we only went through verse 5: 5, we could conclude that it is permissible to eat the flesh of swine. Verse 5: 5 begins with the words "al-yawma uḥilla lakumu l-ṭayibātu waṭaʿāmu alladhīna ūtū l-kitāba ḥillun lakum" - "Today the good things are made lawful for you, and the food of the ones to whom the Book was brought is lawful to you ". Here it is important to pay attention to the fact that God sets a very important condition for food to be allowed to be eaten and that is to be pure (ṭayibātu). Let us now look at what is said in verse 6: 145 for the flesh of swine "qul lā ajidu fī mā ūḥiya ilayya muḥarraman ʿalā ṭāʿimin yaṭʿamuhu illā an yakūna maytatan aw daman masfūḥan aw laḥma khinzīrin fa-innahu rij'sun" - "Say: "I do not find in what has been revealed to me anything forbidden to eat except carrion, running blood, the flesh of swine — for that surely is impure (fa-innahu rij'sun) ...". The answer is therefore that the flesh of swine is forbidden to eat because it is impure. I hope our brothers will pay attention to this.

But..

What we can logically ask ourselves is whether we are allowed to eat pork if the pork has undergone a process of the sterilisation or the pasteurisation?

Nothing forbidden is made allowed by God in His book unless it/they are clearly defined sating the conditions why it is allowed...
Meat of swine is never allowed while you have other foods ...

Meanwhile RIJSZ is never anything which unclean or impure literally... None of RIJSZ words in quran is something that is unclean... But is a debasement or defilement in action... the object is not meant impure but the action...

So.. How far you make the flesh of Swine fit for consumption it stand as forbidden.. How much you make a dead meat conducive for consumption it stays forbidden, how much you make blood conducive for drink it stays as forbidden, how much you make the condition of what is sacrificed for gods other than God it stays Haram...No changes in them...

jkhan

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2022, 08:19:51 PM »
We have to consider even the verses 20:80-81 which says:
20:80 "O Children of Israel! We saved you from your enemy, and made an appointment with you on the right side of Mount Ṭûr, and sent down to you manna and quails,"
20:81 "Use from the pure things We have provided for you(kulū min ṭayyibāti mā razaqnākum), but do not transgress in them, or My wrath will befall you. And whoever My wrath befalls is certainly doomed."

We see again the same condition stated in 5:5 and in 20:81 and that is to use what is pure.

well God never said PURE by word TAIB... it is simply good...
Eat what is HALAL/PERMITTED and good... Permitted is compulsory and good is personal option/choice and being wise...
Would you give someone what is waste in your kitchen for them to consume.. Would you eat something which is not conducive to your body.. for example Red meat or Pineapple for some people it is allergic so it is not good for them.. but halal... would you eat the meat of snake or crocodile just coz they are halal.. it is not good in our eyes.. but God has not made them haram... Would you eat the flesh of Horses and Elephant just coz they are not made haram.. Not they are simply not the choice...

BTW Pure has a total different meaning not like Good.. big difference between pure and good..

note the below verse

:2:267 O you who have believed, spend from the good things which you have earned and from that which We have produced for you from the earth. And do not aim toward the bad therefrom, spending [from that] while you would not take it [yourself] except with closed eyes. And know that Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy.

Thaib  and Khabeez = good and bad

God says to spend good things, but we may have things which are bad also but it is not befitting to spend from bad .. it is not worthy in the eyes of God.. but you may use for yourself rather than wasting.. but for giving good things not bad things from what you have..
similarly,, eat what is good and not everything is good to eat though they are not made haram.. but situations may make them eat..

Safe_from_sweden

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2022, 03:30:23 AM »
Thanks for your feedback. Perhaps it is best to understand the term “Tayyib” as something that is genuine if we look at it from the aspect of the era in which we live. In our time we are witnessing how the products presented are good but in essence they are not basically genuine. Something is thrown in there, which disturbs the balance, which loses its originality. Industry pollutes rivers, the sea, the land. GMO modified articles or other enhancers (e-substances) are used in food. That is why it is no wonder that so many allergies occur in humans in the world, especially in the West. In other words, pollution has appeared both at sea and on land because of what man does. Let us look at verse 7:58 in which the expression “Wa elbaladu aTTayyibu yakhruju nabātuhu bi-idh’ni rabbihi” is used - “And the land, the genuine, comes forth its vegetation by the permission of its Lord”. It is said here that everything that comes from nature is genuine in its essence and as such is permissible, good and useful.
If Muslims truly understood this Qur'anic term "Tayyib" which, among other things, is related to food and land, they would surely be world leaders in the use of organic production and sales of organic food products.

If we consider that Tayyib is good than what is  الخیَرُْ (al-khair)?

jkhan

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2022, 04:17:34 AM »
Thanks for your feedback. Perhaps it is best to understand the term “Tayyib” as something that is genuine if we look at it from the aspect of the era in which we live. In our time we are witnessing how the products presented are good but in essence they are not basically genuine. Something is thrown in there, which disturbs the balance, which loses its originality. Industry pollutes rivers, the sea, the land. GMO modified articles or other enhancers (e-substances) are used in food. That is why it is no wonder that so many allergies occur in humans in the world, especially in the West. In other words, pollution has appeared both at sea and on land because of what man does. Let us look at verse 7:58 in which the expression “Wa elbaladu aTTayyibu yakhruju nabātuhu bi-idh’ni rabbihi” is used - “And the land, the genuine, comes forth its vegetation by the permission of its Lord”. It is said here that everything that comes from nature is genuine in its essence and as such is permissible, good and useful.
If Muslims truly understood this Qur'anic term "Tayyib" which, among other things, is related to food and land, they would surely be world leaders in the use of organic production and sales of organic food products.

If we consider that Tayyib is good than what is  الخیَرُْ (al-khair)?

Thanks for your input as well...
Thaib cannot be pure if you look at he meaning pure...
7:58 good as well.. Here as adjective.. Good land.. Not a pure land. Yes good land produces good output. .

Regarding khair.. It not identical but still similar.. It has a sort of comparing nature when it is adjective but when it is non. It is just good or better.. I hope so.
Same as hasana...
But pure cannot be taken by Taib.
Find out whether there is any word usage for pure in  Quran and what that word is and why it is used in context..
Thank you.

jkhan

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Re: Why eating flesh of swine is haram?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2022, 04:39:59 AM »
Thanks for your input as well...
Thaib cannot be pure if you look at he meaning pure...
7:58 good as well.. Here as adjective.. Good land.. Not a pure land. Yes good land produces good output. .

Regarding khair.. It not identical but still similar.. It has a sort of comparing nature when it is adjective but when it is non. It is just good or better.. I hope so.
Same as hasana...
But pure cannot be taken by Taib.
Find out whether there is any word usage for pure in  Quran and what that word is and why it is used in context..
Thank you.

Note below verse for one of the example of PURE..

O you who have believed, when you [wish to] privately consult the Messenger, present before your consultation a charity. That is better (khair) for you and purer (tha  ha ra)..
God used both good/better and Purer.. If both are sane in meaning needless to use synonyms...

"And it is He who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy, and We send down from the sky PURE water..

Not used Taib or khair water water..

so.. We can deduce there is definite difference between good and pure..
Good and pure are totally different in context.. If course they are even in English..