Author Topic: Prophet marriages  (Read 581 times)

Euphoric

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2022, 03:23:59 AM »
God's law is not based on fruitless and ignorant cultures... God always corrected the wrong path with His right path... Not everyone in Arabia were Badu and not necessary they all follow Bedouin culture..

What an absolutely ignorant comment.  You're forcing your opinion and creating a God out of it. That's shirk in itself.

God doesn't follow your false beliefs. God isn't the way you want him to be. You're a lowly creation that cannot force God into anything.

If you find something abhorrent doesn't mean God will find it abhorrent.

Everyone followed Bedouin culture and customs. The entire Arabic language is Bedouin.

Euphoric

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2022, 03:37:57 AM »

To:Euphoric
I hear you buddy and I knew about putting things into perspectives. For example in villages in India during 1800-early 1900s girls were being married at the age of 14 and by 18 they had multiple children, this is not fake but real accounts. Likewise arabian culture at the time had many ills, one of them being slavery and Islam encourages many acts to gradually freeing slaves etc, same is case of burying girls alive. But for young marriages and if this act was  part of the culture then, then the prophet and Quran examples were to gradually abolish it , similar to slavery but instead (if we were to believe in hadiths), it did not.... and hence it continued and then you have many examples of such marriages of rather younger girls married to sheikhs.
So please enlighten me with your Bedouin culture logic... was it to justify the prophet marriage as reported to marry a young girl of some say 6, some say 9 and some say 11 (max).

You're already operating on false assumptions and belief.

The point is your personal beliefs and feelings do not matter. Whether you agree with it or not has absolutely zero value or even consideration. Morality is based on Allah's rules.

What if the Prophet DID marry a young girl? In fact, it's most likely he did marry a young girl than he didn't as most historical accounts point to it.

Prophet was allowed to do things that the average person was not. So no verse in the Quran prohibits that.

good logic

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2022, 05:05:34 AM »
Peace Fusion.

You say, quote:
"The logic says that we cant just put all history behind us and not make use of it to understand and be guided or guide people?
We cant just say all hadiths are fakes and all historical facts are fabricated and we just accept Quran with a translation that suits us?
Quran was revealed  over a period of time and for sure it must have  some verses which are in response to the incidents which happened in prophets life."

We cannot be guided by anyone or anything else other than GOD and using only His revelations/instructions as far as our salvation is concerned.
As for hadiths , history, Science, ...Men s versions of things  they are there for filtering it and taking the best from it. Use for other than salvation. Of course some  of these may be very good and beneficial in our life.
If one wants to mix another authority for their  salvation with GODs authority and wants to use other than Qoran/scripture for guidance, it is their choice.

I am only saying check with Qoran what anyone is saying about the instructions and commands of GOD.
We are clearly told Muhammed followed GOD s commands and instructions /Qoran. So where does Qoran  give the age of any of his wives?
Besides if GOD ask us to follow the best path indicated for us in Qoran, then Muhammed would have done the same.
Do you find anything contradicting GODs instructions that Muhammed did or followed according to Qoran apart from what he was being told to correct when in error?
That is the main thing .
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Fusion

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2022, 01:41:36 PM »
You're already operating on false assumptions and belief.

What if the Prophet DID marry a young girl? In fact, it's most likely he did marry a young girl than he didn't as most historical accounts point to it.

Prophet was allowed to do things that the average person was not. So no verse in the Quran prohibits that.

So that means you have absolutely no issue with the following historical account.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134
Narrated `Aisha:

that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).

حَدَّثَنَا مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ‏.‏ قَالَ هِشَامٌ وَأُنْبِئْتُ أَنَّهَا كَانَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعَ سِنِينَ‏.‏

That means the age was 9 years old when the sexual relationship happened..... I just cant get around even if they say this was the NORM in those times. Its morally wrong. Not to me only but do a survey and you would get 99% raising eyebrows on such a marriage.

Anyway I am not saying anything except what I agree with good logic and jaffer that characteristics of Prophet as told in Quran contradicts the historical events.
A 53 year old prophet marrying a 6 years and indulge in a relationship at her 9 years is beyond my understanding.
And I see that the above hadith is what almost all schools of thought agreed through out history - recently only few people are trying to prove that she was 17-19 years.

Two video. please turn one english subs.

Traditional schools of thought:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLWxhn3Pmvk

Refuting the traditional approach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LAS1PuQE7k

Thanks
Best Regards,

hawk99

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2022, 06:30:21 PM »
Peace Brother Fusion,

I am not bothered by his-story.  I am more concerned with my salvation.  At least Musa's murder case is scriptural.  Muhammad's wives ages are not scriptural. therefore irrelevant.  If history is one's source of salvation or needed to prove scripture, I have no problem with their choice but for me only what Allah says is absolutely true, outside of that to me the rest is speculation.

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jkhan

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2022, 08:45:54 PM »

God's law is not based on fruitless and ignorant cultures... God always corrected the wrong path with His right path... Not everyone in Arabia were Badu and not necessary they all follow Bedouin culture..


above is my comment...

What an absolutely ignorant comment.  You're forcing your opinion and creating a God out of it. That's shirk in itself.

God doesn't follow your false beliefs. God isn't the way you want him to be. You're a lowly creation that cannot force God into anything.

If you find something abhorrent doesn't mean God will find it abhorrent.

Everyone followed Bedouin culture and customs. The entire Arabic language is Bedouin.

Look dude... your arrogant approach won't solve critical issues within your mind... at the same time i am not insisting anyone take the view of mine rather i present my understanding so does everyone presents their understanding not beyond that... but every understanding should have a logic and should not go contrary to basic principles of the book..

Blue highlighted what is wrong in it? elaborate rationally if you wish..

Red highlighted... Go read all Badwi verses in Quran and come to conclusion who are Bedouin... In general who are these nomadic people wherever in the world..."

12:100  "And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they bowed to him in prostration. And he said, "O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. My Lord has made it reality. And He was certainly good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you from bedouin (Badwi ) life after Satan had induced [estrangement] between me and my brothers. Indeed, my Lord is Subtle in what He wills. Indeed, it is He who is the Knowing, the Wise."

While there are Badwi (Migrating Style) lifestyle during the time of Yaqub and Yousuf, in cities there were Sedentary lifestyle well accepted ... Sedentary lifestyle only makes in any culture big empires and their own languages.. Meanwhile Arabic is well known to be born from Aramaic or Semitic languages.. A pure sound language style cannot be born through a nomadic or for that matter from Badwi lifestyle since they tend to shift place to place and mingle with numerous cultures..
Almost all prophets were sent to Townships and not Badwis... Township should have their own language to be sent with messengers...
Where is your proof to substantiate that through Quran that from Badwi only Arabic language is rooted.. No way... No pure language can be born through Badwi style or even nomadic styles which can overpower empire/territorial lifestyle... Badwi / nomadic languages are transitory according to places and tend to fade off with time..

Why everyone needs to follow Bedouin lifestyle while established townships are already around... Who would prefer Bedouin lifestyle rather than who doesn't have a permanent place and solid environment to livelihood..
Established people don't move in the yester year.. unless they face with huge natural disasters.. 

Rest of your statements are aroused without being patience of mind and not being able to accommodate opposite opinions..

Note: A'RAB in quran always appeared very later revelations.. mainly in chapter 09 and 33 & 48 these were very late revelations in my understanding of quran.. A'rab are not Bedouins by any means.. They are well settle bunch of people possibly with wealth...
Thank you...

Bigmo

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2022, 06:47:26 AM »
Needless to go into details of what happened in India over the issue of Prophet marrying Ayesha at the age where she was only a child and the person (who is a woman of some minster of govt) only said that she mentioned what is mentioned in so many islamic books/hadiths.
My question is

Why prophet married so many women around 10-12 I heard. Was it to set an example of marrying widows and orphans? i cant get around this. This means it would be a sunna for every muslim man to just repeat the same and marry multiple? I heard its 4 as limit per Quran but then why Prophet kept more than 4 wives at a time(violation of quran verse)? Sunni says this was special permission for Prophet, again not understanding the wisdom.

Even if Ayehs age was 18-23, still why did the prophet find it necessary being in 53+ to marry a girl age of her daughter? i mean it is legally allowed but morally prophet should set an example of Not?. In todays time if a man in 50s marry a girl of his daughter age, people do not generally like this concept? morally not a wise thing to set an example. hence we see many sheiks or so called scholars in 50s marrying teen age girls? - because of what was reported with the prophet.
The only motive as i could understand is for lust of young girl by the so called old age men? However I read that in hadiths AYEHSA was proposed by the God thru angel as a wife for the prophet..? Am not saying i believe in these tales but then sunni people had to come up with such hadith to justify while in the first place if prophet did not marry such young girl, this would not be need.

Please note am not disrespecting or anything, its just i cant get past this concept that if i was in those times and i see the prophet am following setting an example, in his 50s marrying a virgin girl more than half his age? Would be uncomfortable?

Unless the whole historical facts are WRONG. As some says even the age of khadija being 40+ and widowed is also fabricated.
please comment

Its based on hadith sources. Not reliable.
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

hawk99

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2022, 12:02:09 PM »
Its based on hadith sources. Not reliable.

Welcome back Bigmo, long time no see!    :handshake:


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Wakas

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Re: Prophet marriages
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2022, 02:09:04 AM »
peace,


To wakas:
Thanks for sharing your links. I would like to ask for your understanding of the verse quoted your referred links.


I recommend re-reading the links, and translations carefully, as it seems you have misunderstood even the basics in them:
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=31
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=40


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org