Author Topic: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?  (Read 988 times)

XavierSlaveofGod

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2022, 05:15:51 AM »
Salam All. Apologies for the delay. Was busy.

Brother Xavier

Jesus is the "Son of God" just like you are the "Son of God", me is the "Son Of God" and they all are the "Sons of God".

I disagree. The Bible says Jesus is the Natural Son of God, sharing the Father's Nature and One with Him. If we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, in Holy Baptism, we become adopted sons of God. St. John the Apostle explains this in Jn 1:12; 3:15.

Son of God is a reference to His Pre-Existence before His Virgin Birth. In Daniel 3:25, Nebuchadnesar sentenced 3 faithful Israelites to death in fire for not worshipping him. But the Son of God came and protected them. This was Jesus Christ.

"He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Daniel 3:25) All the Apostles, and Christ Himself, teach He is uniquely the Son of God.

Quote
In the Gospel according to Matthew, the only material that was originally written in Hebrew, we find:
"Blessed Are the Peacemakers, for They Will Be Called Children of God (Beney Elohym)"
-- Matt 5:9

Agreed. By Faith and Good Works, like spreading Peace, believers will be called children of God.

But even in the Gospel of Matthew, Christ clearly establishes His Divinity. He does so in a Public Debate with the Pharisees:
Quote from: Matt 22
"Whose Son is the Christ?

(Mark 12:35-37; Luke 20:41-44)

41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44The LORD said unto my Lord
, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45If David then call him Lord, how is he [just] his son? 46And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

So, Jesus Christ silenced all the Pharisees who believed Christ was a mere human son of David; the Lord taught He was the Son of God, and the Lord of David, whom David in Spirit calls as Lord or Adonai, which was how the Jews referred to God, Yahweh.

Quote
The core of Jesus teaching can be found in his prayer.

Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name;
Thy kingdom come;
Let Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. (1)
Give us this day our daily bread;
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; (2)
and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

In summary:
1. Align your will with the will of "Our Father"
2. Forgive others, as you would like to be forgiven.

Anyone who do those 2 things will successfully lived a good life.

I agree with this, Bro. Jafar. The Our Father is a Beautiful Prayer, and we should all pray it every day. God Bless you.

shukri

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2022, 08:00:18 PM »
Bro XavierSlaveofGod,

I accept your claim that Jesus is "Son Of God" based on Mark 1:1

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

BUT when I read Genesis 1:26-27, I found out that humankind is an image of god himself. Humankind as we know starts by a pair of father and mother and then their son(s) and/or daughter(s). So, if Jesus is the son of heavenly father, he (Jesus) also should have his heavenly mother according to Genesis 1:26-27.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind (humankind) in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

I'm still learning the Bible and I hope I can learn something from you!
Salam.

truth

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2022, 11:37:18 PM »
Peace be upon all readers,

'Jesus son of Mary', was a human being like me. He ate and he drank wine and became inebriated or had other faults just like you and I.

If being able to do these things, makes someone a 'son of God' then everyone is whatever 'son of God' means in this sense. If you mean a filial relationship, then absolutely not.

As humans we struggle to weave together the intangible soul and immaterial thoughts and pains we have and the very physical bodies that those minds are connected to. The urges we have for air, water and food as well as the also primal reproductive urge bind us to the physical world but we cannot conceptualise it comprehensively in any field.

To connect The God to anything material and insignificant in that sense is simply nonsensical. But in the concept of ideas, then there is no contest. The smallest truth can become the seed to establish a universal understanding of what 'peace' truly is. If the ultimate truth of The God's existence can be proven then this idea will become the one with which there is no contest.

No linguistic arguing on any level could compete with a numerical proof; and this proof is in the stages of being built. The foundations are firmly in place and prophetic elements are manifesting themselves to me quite plainly 'like signs on the horizon' at every turn.

I have become very familiar with the Christ believer findings in mathematical evidence for the existence of The God in analysis of single verses like Genesis 1:1.

The New Testament has extraordinary findings in this respect also which contain quite literally checksums for the prophecies that are being fulfilled by the revelation of these Great Signs. So the mention of another first verse in Mark 1:1 is fascinating because my latest essay in the final stages of preparation link the two numerically verified first verses of the Gospel of Matthew and the Book of John.

The findings for the 'Book of John' are very deeply encoded in The Quran and its numerical structure. There is simply no question of a co-incidence.

The Gospel of Matthew has a great importance in being the very first of the 27 Books of the New Testament. So its first verse contains amazing evidence of the providence of the prophethood in the present servant of The God.

The link between these two verses in a number of ways is shown in the upcoming essay. (Please review the Nineteen Mirror Sign thread for the background and the newest research).


"the Knower of the Unseen, and He reveals unto none His secret,
Save unto a messenger whom He has chosen, and He made an affirmer before him and another follow him.

good logic

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2022, 12:45:17 AM »
All these following terms will not make sense if GOD had a son or a daughter or a family or any partners/race//. gender/...etc:

1- GOD IS THE BEGINNING AND THE END.
2-GOD IS ONE.THERE IS ONLY /CAN EVER BE /WILL EVER BE ONE GOD.
3-GOD IS OMNIPRESENT AND OMNIPOTENT ,EXISTING FOR EVER.. NEVER ABCSENT.
4- GOD IS UNIQUE AND ABSOLUTE. HAS NO COMPARISON.

This eliminates any sibling or partner from any creations of The GOD.i.e By definition GOD is One separate and unique fulfilling the traits of:
-King/owner/authority.
-creation
-Justice.
- judgement.
Compassion ... And all the perfect traits that can only befit This one perfect being.

Why would GOD want one or two or...sons/daughters when He can create billions and billions of any creation/race/types He wishes to do?
He can  manage that easily and is doing so.
GOD does not need anything for Himself in any type or at  anytime. GOD has everything and will have everything .

A simple reflection on who is GOD will eliminate this human idea that GOD somehow needs a son or a partner or anyone or anything . GOD  Alone is always capable, powerful and sufficient.
 Everything else are His dominion and creations.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

amin

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2022, 11:53:54 PM »
Jesus  should be a symbol of God for some group of people and with certain rituals, I think he was once the representation of the Sun as many Christian festivals falls on days marking planetary events related to the Sun, later associated with so many other stories, with the evolution of religion he became the Son of God as the idea of God got bigger and got changed.
Similar thing has happened in many eastern religions too, with evolution of their religions.

hawk99

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2022, 01:48:08 PM »
Jesus  should be a symbol of God for some group of people and with certain rituals, I think he was once the representation of the Sun as many Christian festivals falls on days marking planetary events related to the Sun, later associated with so many other stories, with the evolution of religion he became the Son of God as the idea of God got bigger and got changed.
Similar thing has happened in many eastern religions too, with evolution of their religions.

Peace



Wow! the "Sun" does indeed walk on water!       ;D
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

hawk99

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2022, 07:42:01 PM »
Peace,

Not only does the "Sun" of God walk on water but also the "Moon" of Mother earth also walks on water     :)




Moon walking on water




The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

el_ishbili

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2022, 08:41:16 AM »
The Quran uses two words for "son": We have "Walad" (Root WLD, related to beget) and we have "Ibn" (Root BNY, related to building). The Quran denies that Allah (SWT) has a walad, since begetting would mean giving its substance, its nature, to another being, creating therefore another god, or at least a being with the hability of becoming a god, but we know that there is only one God. On the other hand, the possibility of Allah (SWT) having an ibn, is not denied on the Quran, as far as I know, but keep in mind that an ibn in its basic meaning would just imply someone directly created by God, just like Adam (AS).

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2022, 07:38:48 PM »
The Quran uses two words for "son": We have "Walad" (Root WLD, related to beget) and we have "Ibn" (Root BNY, related to building). The Quran denies that Allah (SWT) has a walad, since begetting would mean giving its substance, its nature, to another being, creating therefore another god, or at least a being with the hability of becoming a god, but we know that there is only one God. On the other hand, the possibility of Allah (SWT) having an ibn, is not denied on the Quran, as far as I know, but keep in mind that an ibn in its basic meaning would just imply someone directly created by God, just like Adam (AS).

peace el_ishbili,

walad means one’s offspring http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Waw-Lam-Dal = to beget, give birth. 6:100-101 mentions attributing sons and daughters

6:100 وخرقوا and attribute they of له to him بنىن banina/sons وبنات wabanatin/and daughters
6:101 انى how ىكون being له to him ولد walad/offspring


to interpret walad as son infers possibility of having daughters (53:19-20).

likewise, as son contradicts 2:233, 31:33 and inheritance (cannot solve).

4:11 ىوصىكم instructed you (pl.) الله the God فى in اولدكم awladikum/offspring yours

verify everything!

Tübingen, university library: Ma VI 165 – old manuscript 649-675, CE (95.4
https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/17/verse/36/manuscripts/107/page/1r


el_ishbili

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Re: Jesus Christ: Prophet or Son of God?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2022, 05:38:36 AM »
peace el_ishbili,

walad means one’s offspring http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Waw-Lam-Dal = to beget, give birth. 6:100-101 mentions attributing sons and daughters

6:100 وخرقوا and attribute they of له to him بنىن banina/sons وبنات wabanatin/and daughters
6:101 انى how ىكون being له to him ولد walad/offspring


to interpret walad as son infers possibility of having daughters (53:19-20).

likewise, as son contradicts 2:233, 31:33 and inheritance (cannot solve).

4:11 ىوصىكم instructed you (pl.) الله the God فى in اولدكم awladikum/offspring yours

verify everything!

Tübingen, university library: Ma VI 165 – old manuscript 649-675, CE (95.4
https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/17/verse/36/manuscripts/107/page/1r



Peace Noon

When I said that "walad" is son I wasn't refering to an specific gender, but I know that in English "son" just refers to male offspring, in contrast with "daughter". I'm a Spanish-speaker, sorry for the confusion.

Regarding the verse 6:100, I don't consider that it totally denies that He has an "ibn" but says that people attribute sons to Him without really knowing (bi-hair 'ilm), like in the verse 5:18, where jews and christians say that they are the children of God.