Author Topic: Questions to John..  (Read 1250 times)

good logic

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2021, 04:42:34 AM »
Really? Does the sun set? What about the earth or moon.? Where does any star or planet set ?

So literally speaking there is no setting of any star or planet anywhere in the universe.  They are going around in their GOD made orbits.

So why do we see the sun setting? and rising?Yes from our perspective the sun sets. It sets behind a mountain or in the sea or in clear and muddy lakes and in all sorts of GOD s beautiful earth settings.  What an enjoyable sight!
When I go to Scarborough England, I find the sun rises from the north sea. 
Maybe that guy in Qoran arrived at a place with a muddy lake and found the sun setting there. And may be the people he found there were gathering to see the beautiful sun set too?
Of course it is only from our perspective and that guy perspective that we see the sun set.
GOD bless.
Peace.
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John

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2021, 01:45:52 PM »
Really? Does the sun set? What about the earth or moon.? Where does any star or planet set ?

So literally speaking there is no setting of any star or planet anywhere in the universe.  They are going around in their GOD made orbits.

So why do we see the sun setting? and rising?Yes from our perspective the sun sets. It sets behind a mountain or in the sea or in clear and muddy lakes and in all sorts of GOD s beautiful earth settings.  What an enjoyable sight!
When I go to Scarborough England, I find the sun rises from the north sea. 
Maybe that guy in Qoran arrived at a place with a muddy lake and found the sun setting there. And may be the people he found there were gathering to see the beautiful sun set too?
Of course it is only from our perspective and that guy perspective that we see the sun set.
GOD bless.
Peace.

The verse does not say  "we see the sun setting?". It says the place was FOUND where the sun sets.

As one commentator noted from the ARABIC: "The word "found" (wagada) and its derivatives are mentioned 107 times in the Qur'an. It is never used as seeing. Indeed when the Qur'an describes the experience of seeing it uses the appropriate word which is "ra'a". And it uses it in relation to seeing the sun in Q. 6:78, "When he [Abraham] saw (ra'a) the sun rising, he said, "This is my Lord". But when it set he said..." Had the Qur'an used the same word "ra'a" for Zul-Qarnain's experience we would have had no problem understanding the experience as a mere vision. We need to look at two words in the following verse, "found" and "until": Until (hatta) he reached the setting of the Sun, he found (wagadaha) it set in a spring of murky water. Near it he found a People. We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (Thou hast authority,) either to punish them or to treat them with kindness." (Q. 18:86)
The grammatical construction of the verses describing Zul-Qarnain's experience excludes the modern interpretation as an experience of vision and clearly stress that it was an act of final achievement and discovery. Grammarians defined the word found "wagada" as: "a verb yofeed fil-khabere yaqeenan", that is, it is a verb denoting certainty of an account. They also define until (hatta) as a word denoting the end of an aim "'inthaa' al-ghayah." Thus the Qur'anic verse describing Zul-Qarnain's experience could only make sense if it meant that after many sunrises and many sunsets and hundreds of miles in travelling, he achieved his aim of reaching and, with certainty, locating the places where the sun rises and sets. Abraham saw the rising and the setting of the sun, and so did all those whom God gave the gift of sight. But one, Zul-Qarnain, according to the Qur'an travelled until he reached and found the place of the rising and setting of the sun. That confirms that the Qur'an implys that the earth is flat and that one specific point near the extreme west could be permanantly closer to the sunset, and one specific point near the far east is permenantly closer to the sunrise, since on a spherical earth there cannot be any such point. Each of these two points are specified by a particuler people according to the Qur'an."

Other translators have rendered the Arabic at 18:86 thus:

1. "Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found IT SETTING IN a muddy spring" (Pickthall)

2. "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found IT SET IN a spring of murky water." (Y. Ali)

3. "Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found IT SETTING IN a spring of black muddy (or hot) water." (Hilali-Khan)

Good Logic, your logic is neither good not logic!

And, oh, btw, Muhammad's "science" is equally naf!


good logic

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2021, 05:54:10 PM »
So Qoran is saying there is a place on earth where the sun sets and Qoran is implying the sun  literally sets on earth. It does not imply that it is  from   the  perspective  of Dhu Al Qranain?

So similarly when he reached a place where the sun rises he found it rising on people. The sun literally rises on people some place on earth and these people keep on living with the sun presence physically?

Brother, on earth, whether you found the sun setting or saw it setting mean one and the same thing- It always sets on a place on earth. From one s perspective-
Qoran does not say the sun sets on a particular place on earth  literally as  part of a fact of the sun , nor is  Qoran talking about the sun itself. Qoran is talking about "the setting of the sun" on earth.. The "setting of the sun "  is always  a place on earth. from the perspective of all those who live on earth..

Or are you saying Qoran  says   he reached the sun itself and found it somewhere?

All I cab say is the mind boggles!
GOD bless you.
Peace..
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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jkhan

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2021, 08:52:10 PM »
You mean we should take up the Koran's cosmology, like this gem: "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found IT SET IN a spring of murky water." (18:86)

The sun sets in a muddy pool? Does that mean the sun was really tiny or that the pool of mud was really, really huge, like waaaayyyyy bigger than the solar system or even the universe?

I'm a really dumb man and never not studied the History and Philosophy of Science and Technology as part of any of my undergrad. I never not took exams in this discipline and I never not wrote papers. I'm reachin' out for your guidance.

Now i am fully convinced that you are an idiot.. That idiotic mind further enhances whenever you read the Quran and thus augment hatred... Truth then goes from the back door... :rotfl: poor John better go back to school again...

Is there a word called Sunset in every language? YES or NO..
would you like to go to beach to see the Golden setting sun underneath the horizon or would you like to witness the Golden rising Sun behind the Mountains?

We all literally know sun or moon or stars don't set ... but we still call it coz it happens at our sight.. that's simply perspective .. would you like to go with me to see sun setting at the hills.. i would give you the best vantage point.. :rotfl:

Look.. In every language they have a word called eclipse.. do they really call solar eclipse when sun moon and earth positioned in the same straight line... NO.. that's what scientist say..

But what is eclipse in the perspective of a person who stands on earth? For example total solar eclipse is a black rounded object is fully covering the Sun.. That's total solar eclipse.. isn't it?

But, does this Black object really cover/hide the sun? nothing blocks the sun...everything is as usual...
So dear big boy, don't confuse perspective with reality..

Dul Qarnain was on earth... He found IT(Sun) setting/hiding... So God said what Dulqarnain saw..

Suppose your mother was at the hills looking east.. She is witnessing sun going down hiding behind the Hills... how would you describe what your mother saw?

People used to say "let me go home before sun goes down" Does sun really go down?

You can't change perspective of human being though the reality is different..

so you are well versed in Arabic... well.. not exactly...
you are so concerned about the word "found"
see in the same chapter 18:93 dulqarnain FOUND/NOTICED in between two mountains people...
don't complicate with intention...

English has word such as FIND and SEE.. so does in Arabic..


John

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2021, 11:30:55 PM »
Now i am fully convinced that you are an idiot.. That idiotic mind further enhances whenever you read the Quran and thus augment hatred... Truth then goes from the back door... :rotfl: poor John better go back to school again...


We don't say that the sun sets IN the ocean or IN the mountains. We say it sets OVER the ocean or BEHIND the mountains, or whatever relevant preposition the language uses. The Koranic verse says that the sun sets IN the muddy pool. That obviously means that the man was at a muddy pool and saw the sun set INTO the pool. IN, INTO etc all mean someone or something ENTERS another object or person. Prepositions have meanings and that's all folks!

You can go on and on trying to exculpate the Koran but it is so replete with error that it's just one silly remark after another.

Well almost all: Speaking of silliness, any response to my question as to whether you guys will be bowing down to Allah's shin bone? I see you assiduously avoided that one.


John

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2021, 11:37:29 PM »
Now i am fully convinced that you are an idiot.. That idiotic mind further enhances whenever you read the Quran and thus augment hatred... T
see in the same chapter 18:93 dulqarnain FOUND/NOTICED in between two mountains people...
don't complicate with intention...

English has word such as FIND and SEE.. so does in Arabic..

Since I am an idiot, please explain your point to me. re 18:93.

Green Anarchism

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2021, 01:26:26 AM »
The sun sets in a muddy pool? Does that mean the sun was really tiny or that the pool of mud was really, really huge, like waaaayyyyy bigger than the solar system or even the universe?

I am an idiot

I'm a really dumb man and never not studied the History and Philosophy of Science and Technology as part of any of my undergrad. I never not took exams in this discipline and I never not wrote papers. I'm reachin' out for your guidance.

When a retard try to interpret ancient/sign language with modern language / literal interpretation methodology..   :rotfl:



QURANIC INTERPRETATION METHODOLOGY 75:19: So We sent them the flood, and the locust, and the lice, and the frogs, and the blood; all detailed signs; but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people (7:133)

THE CRIMES ("all detailed signs")

Flood = Mix up truth with falsehood, facts/opinions
Locust = The destroyers: Falsity which is the extremes of the natural, locust swarm
Lice = Ignorant, The evils whic are in the sensuous, from gross and stupid mind.
Frog = Being neutral: reasoning from falities; "frog in a boiling pot"
Blood = Economy: riba, blood money, loan shark, market manipulation, cronyism etc.


We (NATURALISM) are responsible for its interpretation (75:19) ELSE Shirk/nonsense



No one disputes Allah´s Signs except those who are kafir. (40:4) We will show them Our Signs on the horizon and within themselves until it is clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not enough for your Lord that He is a witness of everything? (41:53)

good logic

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2021, 01:50:59 PM »
Peace John.

The best thing to do with a book that has nonsense and is contradictory is to translate it whole and show the world its inconsistency and falsehood.
For example if you say this,quote:

"According to your Koran, Allah has a shin bone: "The Day the shin will be uncovered and they are invited to prostration but they [the disbelievers] will not be able." (68:42)"

Where is the word" shin" in the verse? 
يُكشَفُ عَن ساقٍ   Literal meaning: The leg will be uncovered  Actual context /idiom meaning in verse 68:42 : One will be exposed.
Look at verses 68:35 to 68:43 translated for you. or bring your better translation for them to compare for the readers
...
Shall we treat the Submitters like the criminals?
أَفَنَجعَلُ المُسلِمينَ كَالمُجرِمينَ
What is wrong with your logic?
ما لَكُم كَيفَ تَحكُمونَ
Do you have another book to uphold/study?
أَم لَكُم كِتٰبٌ فيهِ تَدرُسونَ
In it, do you find anything you want?
إِنَّ لَكُم فيهِ لَما تَخَيَّرونَ
Or, have you received solemn assurances from us that grant you whatever you wish on the Day of Resurrection?
أَم لَكُم أَيمٰنٌ عَلَينا بٰلِغَةٌ إِلىٰ يَومِ القِيٰمَةِ إِنَّ لَكُم لَما تَحكُمونَ
Ask them, "Who guarantees this for you?"
سَلهُم أَيُّهُم بِذٰلِكَ زَعيمٌ
Do they have idols? Let their idols help them, if they are truthful.
أَم لَهُم شُرَكاءُ فَليَأتوا بِشُرَكائِهِم إِن كانوا صٰدِقينَ
The day they will be exposed - Resurrection day-and they will be required to fall prostrate, but they will be unable to.( 68:42)
يَومَ يُكشَفُ عَن ساقٍ وَيُدعَونَ إِلَى السُّجودِ فَلا يَستَطيعونَ
With their eyes subdued, humiliation will cover them. They were invited to fall prostrate when they were whole and able in their life(but mocked!).
خٰشِعَةً أَبصٰرُهُم تَرهَقُهُم ذِلَّةٌ وَقَد كانوا يُدعَونَ إِلَى السُّجودِ وَهُم سٰلِمونَ
...
One needs to translate words, verses and context for clear meaning brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

John

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2021, 02:21:48 PM »
Peace John.

The best thing to do with a book that has nonsense and is contradictory is to translate it whole and show the world its inconsistency and falsehood.
For example if you say this,quote:

"According to your Koran, Allah has a shin bone: "The Day the shin will be uncovered and they are invited to prostration but they [the disbelievers] will not be able." (68:42)"

Where is the word" shin" in the verse? 
يُكشَفُ عَن ساقٍ   Literal meaning: The leg will be uncovered  Actual context /idiom meaning in verse 68:42 : One will be exposed.
Look at verses 68:35 to 68:43 translated for you. or bring your better translation for them to compare for the readers


Here are my BETTER TRANSLATIONS of YOUR FAKE BOOK.

Apparently these 20 translators had NO PROBLEM understanding the text.

As I said, Allah’s toe bone is connected to his….

1.   ˹Beware of˺ the Day the Shin ˹of Allah˺ will be bared, and the wicked will be asked to prostrate, but they will not be able to do so” (The Clear Quran, Dr. Mustafa Khattab)
 
2.   “The Day that the shin shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to bow in adoration, but they shall not be able” (Yusuf Ali, Saudi Rev. 1985)

3.   “Some day when their shinbone will be laid bare and they will be called upon to bow down on their knees, and they will not manage to” (T.B. Irving)
4.   The Study Quran: “On the Day when the shank is laid bare and they are called to prostrate, yet are not able”
5.   Dr. Kamal Omar: “The Day the covering is removed from the shin (i.e., a terror and anxiety is created in a person) and they are called towards prostrations (to Allah alone), but they do not have the capacity”
6.   Talal A. Itani (new translation): “On the Day when the Shin will be exposed, and they will be called to bow down, but they will be unable”
7.   Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali: “On the Day when the shank will be bared and they will be called to prostrate themselves, yet they are unable to”
8.   Muhammad Taqi Usmani: “On the Day when the Shin will be exposed, and they will be called upon to prostrate themselves, they will not be able to”
9.   Syed Vickar Ahamed: “The Day that when the Shin (Allah’s Divine Self) shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to prostrate themselves but they (the hypocrites) shall not be able to do so”
10.   Umm Muhammad (Sahih International): “The Day the shin will be uncovered and they are invited to prostration but the disbelievers will not be able”
11.    Abdul Majid Daryabadi: “Remember the Day whereon the shank shall be bared and they shall be called upon to Prostrate themselves, but they shall not be able”
12.    Hamid S. Aziz: “On the day when the Shin (the Hidden Mystery or Truth) shall be laid bare, and they shall be called upon to make obeisance, but they shall not be able”
13.    Mohammad Shafi: “The Day the shin is laid bare, they will be called upon to prostrate themselves, but they will not be able to do so”
14.    Muhammad Ahmed – Samira: “A day/time being uncovered/(relieved) of (a) shin/leg, and they be/are being called repeatedly to the prostration, so they are not able”
15.    Faridul Haque: “On the day when the Shin will be exposed and they will be called to prostrate themselves, they will be unable”
16.    Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali: ”(Remember) the Day when the Shin shall be laid bare (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) and they shall be called to prostrate (to Allah), but they (hypocrites) shall not be able to do so”
17.    Linda “iLHam” Barto: “On the day that the shin will be exposed, they [the unforgiven sinners] will be summoned to prostrate [before the Lord], but they will not be able to do so.”
18.   Irving & Mohamed Hegab: “Some day when their shinbone will be laid bare and they will be called upon to bow down on their knees, and they will not manage to”
19.   Mir Aneesuddin: “On the day (the covering) will be removed from the ankle (there being a calamity), and they will be called for prostrations, but they will not be able to (prostrate)”
20.    OLD Literal Word for Word: “(The) Day will be uncovered from the shin and they will be called to prostrate, but not they will be able”

So, your god is really eternally a bunch of tissue, bone and…

jkhan

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Re: Questions to John..
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2021, 05:45:45 PM »
Here are my BETTER TRANSLATIONS of YOUR FAKE BOOK.

Apparently these 20 translators had NO PROBLEM understanding the text.

As I said, Allah’s toe bone is connected to his….

1.   ˹Beware of˺ the Day the Shin ˹of Allah˺ will be bared, and the wicked will be asked to prostrate, but they will not be able to do so” (The Clear Quran, Dr. Mustafa Khattab)
 
2.   “The Day that the shin shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to bow in adoration, but they shall not be able” (Yusuf Ali, Saudi Rev. 1985)

3.   “Some day when their shinbone will be laid bare and they will be called upon to bow down on their knees, and they will not manage to” (T.B. Irving)
4.   The Study Quran: “On the Day when the shank is laid bare and they are called to prostrate, yet are not able”
5.   Dr. Kamal Omar: “The Day the covering is removed from the shin (i.e., a terror and anxiety is created in a person) and they are called towards prostrations (to Allah alone), but they do not have the capacity”
6.   Talal A. Itani (new translation): “On the Day when the Shin will be exposed, and they will be called to bow down, but they will be unable”
7.   Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali: “On the Day when the shank will be bared and they will be called to prostrate themselves, yet they are unable to”
8.   Muhammad Taqi Usmani: “On the Day when the Shin will be exposed, and they will be called upon to prostrate themselves, they will not be able to”
9.   Syed Vickar Ahamed: “The Day that when the Shin (Allah’s Divine Self) shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to prostrate themselves but they (the hypocrites) shall not be able to do so”
10.   Umm Muhammad (Sahih International): “The Day the shin will be uncovered and they are invited to prostration but the disbelievers will not be able”
11.    Abdul Majid Daryabadi: “Remember the Day whereon the shank shall be bared and they shall be called upon to Prostrate themselves, but they shall not be able”
12.    Hamid S. Aziz: “On the day when the Shin (the Hidden Mystery or Truth) shall be laid bare, and they shall be called upon to make obeisance, but they shall not be able”
13.    Mohammad Shafi: “The Day the shin is laid bare, they will be called upon to prostrate themselves, but they will not be able to do so”
14.    Muhammad Ahmed – Samira: “A day/time being uncovered/(relieved) of (a) shin/leg, and they be/are being called repeatedly to the prostration, so they are not able”
15.    Faridul Haque: “On the day when the Shin will be exposed and they will be called to prostrate themselves, they will be unable”
16.    Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali: ”(Remember) the Day when the Shin shall be laid bare (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) and they shall be called to prostrate (to Allah), but they (hypocrites) shall not be able to do so”
17.    Linda “iLHam” Barto: “On the day that the shin will be exposed, they [the unforgiven sinners] will be summoned to prostrate [before the Lord], but they will not be able to do so.”
18.   Irving & Mohamed Hegab: “Some day when their shinbone will be laid bare and they will be called upon to bow down on their knees, and they will not manage to”
19.   Mir Aneesuddin: “On the day (the covering) will be removed from the ankle (there being a calamity), and they will be called for prostrations, but they will not be able to (prostrate)”
20.    OLD Literal Word for Word: “(The) Day will be uncovered from the shin and they will be called to prostrate, but not they will be able”

So, your god is really eternally a bunch of tissue, bone and…

Dude your approach to understand Quran is sheer negative... You have already decided that you not gonna agree with Quran and with that mindset you are reading and you present here.. Your intention is not finding the truth but to mock..

The particular verse in concern for you is something that happens on the day of Judgement... Until it happens why you bother.. Let the translators translate as they want.. But witness what exactly meant by the verse.. Everything in Quran will not give us exact meaning what God intended.. Coz something He talks of Ghaib.. Then we can only guess. Better not guess.. Verses in Quran itself clears it 3:7 ,,,we believe in it.. Speculation is not equal to truth..

God says in Quran  He has eyes.. he has two hands.. He has fist.. But we can't speculate..
Why you really worry, while bible says God created human being in his shape in clear language without any ambiguity Genesis 1:26:27... So.. Bible clearly accepts God has shin bones.. We all know Jesus had shin bones..  :rotfl:..after all he was a god.. But I don't know he could overtake black man in your most concerned organ..  :rotfl: