Author Topic: Why alcohol is haram by quran  (Read 138 times)

Safe_from_sweden

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Why alcohol is haram by quran
« on: September 14, 2021, 02:12:13 PM »
Peace!

Alcoholic beverages fall into the category of intoxicants and their presence in the blood leads to blurred consciousness, weakening of the senses and decreased concentration in the one who drinks it.
What does the Qur'an tell us about this? In 2:219 it is said:

”They ask thee about KHAMR and MAJSIR. Say thou: “In both is great ITH’M and benefits for men; but their ITH’M is greater than their benefit.” And they ask thee what they should spend. Say thou: “The surplus.” Thus does God make plain to you the proofs, that you might reflect”

While with verse 7:33 the alcoholic beverages are forbidden for the sake of connection with ITH’M.

”Say thou: “My Lord has only made unlawful sexual immoralities— whether open or concealed — and ITH’M, and sectarian zealotry without cause, and that you ascribe a partnership with God to that for which He has not sent down authority, and that you ascribe to God what you know not.”

We see today that soft drinks can be produced without the presence of alcohol in them. If there is no iITH’M in these drinks then there is no harm in them to the health and psyche of the people. In the same way, if you remove money in gambling, that is. investing money or property in the outcome of gambling then gambling becomes harmless or becomes an ordinary game just as alcohol becomes a harmless beverage when the presence of an intoxicating substance is removed from it, ie. alcohol.

In 48 places in the Qur’an, the root alif-sa-mim is used and covers a lot of things. Among other things, it is associated with wills, suspicions, conspiracies, oaths, etc. Here are the verses:
2:85, 2: 173, 2: 181, 2: 182, 2: 182, 2: 188, 2: 203, 2: 203, 2: 206, 2: 219, 2: 219,2: 276, 2: 283, 3: 178, 4:20, 4:48, 4:50, 4: 107, 4: 111, 4: 112, 5: 2, 5: 3, 5:29, 5:29, 5:62, 5:63, 5: 106, 5: 107, 6: 120, 6: 120, 7:33, 24:11, 25: 68, 26: 222, 33:58, 42:37, 44:44, 45: 7, 49:12, 52:23, 53:32, 56:25, 58: 8, 58: 9, 68:12, 76:24, 83:12

If we carefully analyze 2: 219 we will see that Allah makes it known that opiates (drinks, wine, and everything else that intoxicates) and gambling are something that man himself has made knowing that it still has harm for the one who uses them because intoxicating drinks and various gamblings are not found as a product of nature itself. In other words, man made them for himself, knowing that for the most part there was only harm in them.

The Qur'an is one body and it is impossible to separate the verse or verses from the whole, ie. we must approach the Qur'an as an organic material because all the verses are connected and bound and as such part of one and the same whole. When a certain is'm is mentioned as haram at 7:33 then we have to look for where and what the Qur'an specifies or categorizes under the term is'm and is'm is actually a contamination, a waste that God sanctions (puts out of use) to come into contact us.

I think that something is haram when the Qur'an directly, ie. by name it makes haram. But this is something completely new where the Qur’an uses one comprehensive term similar to a remote net by which a fisherman catches a multitude of different fish. By the way, how to explain 7:33 who says in such a clear way that specific el-is'm is haram? If it is specific, it means that it has already been pointed out. So if it is defined it is up to us to look for it in the Qur’an. I am of the opinion that one of the tasks of the Qur'an is to teach us the correct methodology, which can be direct but also representative, ie. collective and comprehensive. As for 2: 219, it discovers something else in himself, and that is chemistry and biology, because it is in this verse that the molecular side of intoxicating drinks is revealed - they are intoxicating because they contain a molecule of alcohol whose combination the letter ث with its three dots so well visualizes. I mean 7:33 is determinative - determining just as in the case of Iblis where at 18:50 it is said that he was one of the jinn because otherwise if it were not for verse 18:50 we would have to conclude that Iblis was one of the angels.

Emre_1974tr

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ACCORDING TO THE QURAN , ALCOHOL IS NOT HARAM, IT IS "CONDITIONAL HALAL"
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2021, 02:45:50 PM »
ACCORDING TO THE QURAN , ALCOHOL IS NOT HARAM, IT IS "CONDITIONAL HALAL"

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610016.0

jkhan

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Re: Why alcohol is haram by quran
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2021, 10:16:47 PM »
Peace 'S F S

Definition of Sin is "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law." there comes the issue.. This word is typical bible based...  But izthm is just Guilty / Wrong / offence / transgress moral, ethic or law and not necessarily law of God...

For example I bring the verse 5:2 " ..... And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in wrong / misdeed / offence (izthm) and aggression. ....."

Thus this izthm befits for all occurrences...

Now let's consider about verses 2:219 "
They ask you about intoxication and gambling. Say, "In them (dual) is great wrong/offence and benefit for people. But their wrong/offence  is greater than their benefit.

Hear clearly note the word "IN THEM" it means in intoxication and gambling... But 7:33 is talking about immorality and offence and oppression and association with God... They all talk about individually about it.. Forbidden is association with God.. Forbidden is fahisha.... Forbidden is oppression and forbidden is Offence of any nature..

Gambling or intoxication is not forbidden.. Instead IN THEM is offence (izthm) while benefit.. If God forbids anything regardless of food or other matters, IN THEM are no BENEFIT.... In association with God there is no benefit save loss only.. note that.. Same apply to whatever forbidden..

God has forbidden when it comes to food and drink only 4 items.. In which intoxicating drinks are not included.. Thus we can't forbid anything that God has not forbidden.. But God says eat what is halal(except 4, conditional ) and what is good(option).. So we have option to avoid.. If we feel flesh of crocodile is disgusting. We can leave it.. No harm.. But don't say forbidden..

What went wrong for you is the translation of izthm as Sin which is bible oriented


Anoushirvan

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Re: Why alcohol is haram by quran
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 02:51:30 AM »
Salam,

KhMR in verses 2.219 and 5.90-5.91 does not mean wine nor alcohol nor intoxicant nor drug nor any meaning related to this, though in other verses like in Surah 12, it indeed means wine.

In fact, KhMR in those verses 2.219 and 5.90-5.91 was not an Arabic word but a word from Syriac / Aramaic origin.
Or alternatively, if it was an Arabic word in, e.g., Old Hijazi dialect, this original meaning has been forgotten since, and only the meaning of wine or liquor has been retained.

By the way in Surah 12, of the two companions of Joseph, the winemaker is saved, while the baker is put to death.
 

As evidenced here: http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=xmwrh%232+N&cits=all, the Syriac word Khumrā had several meanings, one being amulet or amulet spirit.
This meaning perfectly fits into verses 2.219 and 5.90-5.91 given the context.

It is magic and divination of all kind that is forbidden by Qur'an, and again this is perfectly in line with the overall sense conveyed by Qur'an that salvation cannot be gained by knowing the unseen world (al-ghayb).
And magic and divination and alike (e.g. amulets) are indeed ways to try gaining access to the unseen world.


jkhan

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Re: Why alcohol is haram by quran
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 05:00:51 AM »
Salam,

KhMR in verses 2.219 and 5.90-5.91 does not mean wine nor alcohol nor intoxicant nor drug nor any meaning related to this, though in other verses like in Surah 12, it indeed means wine.

In fact, KhMR in those verses 2.219 and 5.90-5.91 was not an Arabic word but a word from Syriac / Aramaic origin.
Or alternatively, if it was an Arabic word in, e.g., Old Hijazi dialect, this original meaning has been forgotten since, and only the meaning of wine or liquor has been retained.

By the way in Surah 12, of the two companions of Joseph, the winemaker is saved, while the baker is put to death.
 

As evidenced here: http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=xmwrh%232+N&cits=all, the Syriac word Khumrā had several meanings, one being amulet or amulet spirit.
This meaning perfectly fits into verses 2.219 and 5.90-5.91 given the context.

It is magic and divination of all kind that is forbidden by Qur'an, and again this is perfectly in line with the overall sense conveyed by Qur'an that salvation cannot be gained by knowing the unseen world (al-ghayb).
And magic and divination and alike (e.g. amulets) are indeed ways to try gaining access to the unseen world.

Peace...

Yeah it seems so if we explicitly look at it... but QURAN is a clear book in manifest Arabic language..
Yes may be sometimes history would have hidden the meaning of certain words of Arabic and turn the table ... For example ummi.. But everything should be decided within Quran... Comparing other languages or dialects to give the meaning of Quran cannot possibly accept by any means... That's sheer bizarre approach..

Quran had clearly given a word 47:15... So we can insist within Quran to drag the meaning of this particular sentence..
If intoxicants not matching but at least liquor would match undeniably...

Gambling is the common word in 5:91 for other two gambling mentioned in 5:90.. So all three are gambling.. But one is different which liquor... In a place of gambling liquor is kind of imperative bond... Needles to state...

If you have liquor to certain extent you will definitely have harm and intoxication which clearly stated in verse 37:47.. So  the drink is liquor or wine.. But in that verse it states it doesn't happen.. That's mercy.. But drink is wine.. So we can't neglect 47:15 Khamrin/wine liquor..

So why go for another alternative option as amulet... While this wine or liquor or perhaps intoxicant is perfectly befitting with the verses in question..

Anoushirvan

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Re: Why alcohol is haram by quran
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 06:02:53 AM »
Peace...

Yeah it seems so if we explicitly look at it... but QURAN is a clear book in manifest Arabic language..

Yeah, I know those verses that say that this is "clear book" in "pure Arabic language".
But you and most people take those verses to a too extreme and "extremist" meaning that was never intended in first place.

Another thing: a postulate of Qur'an-alone exegesis is that a word in Qur'an must have only one and single meaning (this is meant to go against mainstream Islam interpretation where words have different meanings in different verses).

But there is actually no proof that this postulate is correct.





Quran had clearly given a word 47:15... So we can insist within Quran to drag the meaning of this particular sentence..
If intoxicants not matching but at least liquor would match undeniably...

Gambling is the common word in 5:91 for other two gambling mentioned in 5:90.. So all three are gambling.. But one is different which liquor... In a place of gambling liquor is kind of imperative bond... Needles to state...

If you have liquor to certain extent you will definitely have harm and intoxication which clearly stated in verse 37:47.. So  the drink is liquor or wine.. But in that verse it states it doesn't happen.. That's mercy.. But drink is wine.. So we can't neglect 47:15 Khamrin/wine liquor..

So why go for another alternative option as amulet... While this wine or liquor or perhaps intoxicant is perfectly befitting with the verses in question..

You know, Qur'an-alone mindset emerges from Islam nonetheless, despite rejection of some Islamic traditions.
And Islam clearly prohibits alcohol.
A whole world-wide civilization built itself on the prohibition of alcohol. Moreover modern medicine clearly demonstrates that alcohol causes cancers and other diseases, which is in itself a good reason to abstain.
So it's hard to switch to a different mindset where alcohol would be allowed.
Instead, people try to find every bit of argument in Qur'an that comfort them in the thinking that alcohol was really forbidden by God who knew from eternity that alcohol was bad.

jkhan

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Re: Why alcohol is haram by quran
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 07:05:28 AM »
Yeah, I know those verses that say that this is "clear book" in "pure Arabic language".
But you and most people take those verses to a too extreme and "extremist" meaning that was never intended in first place.

Another thing: a postulate of Qur'an-alone exegesis is that a word in Qur'an must have only one and single meaning (this is meant to go against mainstream Islam interpretation where words have different meanings in different verses).

But there is actually no proof that this postulate is correct.


You know, Qur'an-alone mindset emerges from Islam nonetheless, despite rejection of some Islamic traditions.
And Islam clearly prohibits alcohol.
A whole world-wide civilization built itself on the prohibition of alcohol. Moreover modern medicine clearly demonstrates that alcohol causes cancers and other diseases, which is in itself a good reason to abstain.
So it's hard to switch to a different mindset where alcohol would be allowed.
Instead, people try to find every bit of argument in Qur'an that comfort them in the thinking that alcohol was really forbidden by God who knew from eternity that alcohol was bad.

Peace...

I don't want to drag this topic to something else coz of what you have written...
Pls stick with topic.. That would save time of readers..

Anyway we have no authority to forbid alcohol whole God has not... So simple... But choose what is good for consumption.. We know liquor is not that good for body if taken beyond its level for an extended period...
Still I never drink. .. Just coz it is not required for my life..
Poison is made out of natural leaves as well.. So do many dangerous drugs...Has God forbidden.. We don't need to forbid.. Let that be.. But as a believer choose what is Good to eat and drink.. Forbidding authority only with God in His law prescribed..  :handshake:

hawk99

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Re: Why alcohol is haram by quran
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2021, 11:29:26 AM »
Uhh don't drink alcohol, bad for you   :nope:


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