Author Topic: Question on 4:101  (Read 226 times)

Mahdi20

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Question on 4:101
« on: September 14, 2021, 08:08:14 AM »
In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4:101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct)  but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times...  i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace :handshake:
And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....

jkhan

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2021, 08:56:43 AM »
In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4:101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct)  but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times...  i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace :handshake:

Peace...

I bet this topic would have been discussed and debated in many a times in this forum  So I advice humbly to search, find and read... If still any queries, pls raise in those topics already discussed.. Hope it helps... As you wish..

Wakas

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2021, 10:03:47 AM »
peace,

The fault may lie in your approach. You are only thinking of "shorten" in terms of unit of prayer, e.g. from 3 to 2. What about "shorten" in terms of length of time? e.g. from 40mins to 20mins.

?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mahdi20

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2021, 11:25:53 AM »
Salam again

Sorry jkhan.... i must have searched before creating a new topic , u are right

Peace wakas no no, the units was an example .... ok lets consider time.... then there may was Specified minutes.. so how about this.... i mean , the prayer may was at least  5minutes.... so how we can know this through quran? i mean, if we consider minutes.... how much time should a prayer takes.(my grammar is so bad... i hope you understand what i want to say)
 
And another thing... did the people at the time of prophet knows that what the minute is? i mean the second,minute or any short unit of time... was invented at the time of prophet?
And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....

Wakas

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2021, 11:59:23 AM »
My use of "minutes" was just an example. See:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mahdi20

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2021, 12:59:06 PM »
Peace

Yes i know this was an example.... so i mentioned there was any”short unit of time” was invented at the time?

But lets dont get far from the point....

i have read the link you have sended brother.... but it was about when to do prayer...(i dont agree with this opinion... but i respect it i think time of what we call prayer today is mentioned 20:130 30:17 and 30:18)not how long a prayer should be at least

My question was : where and how we can know from quran that how much should a player be at least? i mean , ok God says the prayer should be at least Takes A , but u can pray shorter than A in some situtaions like fear of enemy attack...
So where the A is mentioned in quran
And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....

jkhan

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2021, 06:28:21 PM »
In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4:101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct)  but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times...  i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace :handshake:

Peace...

Let me give my input as well. 
17:110-111 is in fact Salat... Carefully note it says to magnify God in abundance/ great / big / etc...
So we are to magnify Him a lot..
But salat is time framed..
For example Fajr Salat..  When actually the Fajr is.. 11:114 clarifies it.. It is not a lengthy period.. It has limit.. Beyond that is not Fajr... I mean not before or not after.. So it has its limit.. No one need to explain the nature.. People are accustomed to it.. Remember Salat is not the only deed we are ordered to perform at fajr.. We are to read Quran, we are to thasbeeh.. So allocate a time limit within Fajr for salat... Out of that shorten when in fear..

If still not convinced.. Think like this.. God says to do four steps before salat.. One is wash your face.. Questions.. Has he said how to wash?  Warm water or cold water or extreme clean water or just water.. So don't split hair there.. Just wash your face.. Now who gives the exact definition to face.. What is face?. We know with nature like we know what is Fajr .. Again one would ask how many times to wash hands..?  Silly isn't it?...  God just orders wash your hands Upto elbow... So just wash.. Why need repetition.. If he said wash it means it is at least once.. If you prefer 1-10 times do it..
If your mom says wash your hands kid before sitting at the dining table.. Do we ever ask.. Mom.. How many times I need to wash my hands? Just wash means.. Preference is given which includes at least once.. If not once then not washed..

So.. Naturally timing is given based on sun...  So.. If you are doing regularly to a certain amount of time your Salat... Then device a comfortable time limit when you are in fear or travel.  That's all up to the individual... Why make it so absurd... Suppose...  If you usually go and visit your parents everyday for almost hour  so that you have enough time spent there... But suddenly you become busy officially.. But still can't skip visiting beloved parents.. But you shorten... You know you are shortening the length of stay...

Remember.. Shortening of salat verse not revealed before timing of salat was fixed.. So don't complicate it... Look at quran leaving everything aside.. If you are preoccupied your mind with something else and read Quran then it will overtake your reading of Quran...

Mahdi20

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2021, 11:26:07 AM »
Peace jkhan

Thanks for your answer.... im almost convinced... but i have one question to be fully convinced.

Ok.... i say i will pray 10minutes in fajr in normal situtation.... and if im in fear of something... i will pray 2 minutes

But u know... God says فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ=there isnt any sin open you...

So if it s US to say how long we will pray in normal situtations....

Why God say There isnt sin upon you if we reduce prayer times.... i mean its so clear that reducing the durarion WE have set isnt a sin.... why god have said that it is not a sin when its clear that reducing the duration that we have selected as we wished isnt a sin(it likes i have egg, i say i want to sell it 1$... but somehow i change my mind and i want to sell it 0.5$ .... its is so clear that reducing price of that egg isnt a sin(because God hasnt said the egg price is 1$.... it was my choice)

in one sentence:if It is not God to say how long a prayer must be... and its i me or you that choose how long your soli prayer should be long... then why God said there isnt any sin upon you

i hope you understand what i want to say ...i am trying to improve my english ... but at the time my grammar is soo bad

Peace

And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly....

hawk99

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 11:46:20 AM »
Peace Mahdi20


as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want.


yeah I hope no one attempts to stop you from praying.


In the name of God

But.... When i read 4:101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct)  but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times...  i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?
Obviously you can shorten your prayers under certain circumstances.
Peace :handshake:

Obviously you can shorten your prayers under certain circumstances.


                                                                          :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

jkhan

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Re: Question on 4:101
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2021, 05:34:35 PM »
Peace jkhan

Thanks for your answer.... im almost convinced... but i have one question to be fully convinced.

Ok.... i say i will pray 10minutes in fajr in normal situtation.... and if im in fear of something... i will pray 2 minutes

But u know... God says فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ=there isnt any sin open you...

So if it s US to say how long we will pray in normal situtations....

Why God say There isnt sin upon you if we reduce prayer times.... i mean its so clear that reducing the durarion WE have set isnt a sin.... why god have said that it is not a sin when its clear that reducing the duration that we have selected as we wished isnt a sin(it likes i have egg, i say i want to sell it 1$... but somehow i change my mind and i want to sell it 0.5$ .... its is so clear that reducing price of that egg isnt a sin(because God hasnt said the egg price is 1$.... it was my choice)

in one sentence:if It is not God to say how long a prayer must be... and its i me or you that choose how long your soli prayer should be long... then why God said there isnt any sin upon you

i hope you understand what i want to say ...i am trying to improve my english ... but at the time my grammar is soo bad

Peace

Peace...

Don't rush to get convinced.. Research and beg to god for guidance and verify and be satisfied... If God guided and that's the ultimate result.. God never guides with with wrong option.. Would he?

Okay let me explain about sin.. Problem here is you took it as sin... It is not sin.. In fact it is not your issue but unfortunately translation.. But you should spend much time to study all junah verses.. And how come it be sin.. Indeed junah in my entire comprehension is blame.. That suits better...
Look at the next verse 4:102 "But there is no blame(junah) upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms.."

The meaning here is it is better if you carry the weapon... But situation is worse and carrying them is hard and as a human being naturally keeping it down is best option.. Coz they are involved with another deed which is salat.. So God says No BLAME.. consequences may be bad by keeping the weapon down.. But no blame..
It is never a sin.. What is sin according to dictionary.. Just brows and see.. It never befits to junah..

So when it comes to prayer Salat.. We used to pray suppose as you said 10 mints.. Suddenly situation arises and you are in fear and you were in a hurry praying just couple of minutes.. God with His mercy authenticated that.. Yes shorten it doesn't matter and no blame on you... But do salat in other times as usual... If you use the word blame for all junah verses in entire Quran I don't think the meaning of verses changes.. They all befit.. God guide us..