Author Topic: Why did God make it this way  (Read 382 times)

Sarah

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Why did God make it this way
« on: August 28, 2021, 09:17:20 PM »
Peace

That most people are going to hell? What is the moral of the story?

So God created Satan. Then Adam & Eve. Satan rebels. Adam and Eve rebel but repent. Then most of their children rebel except a few. We're all going through a test. Then get sorted into Heaven and Hell.

But why didn't God make most people for Heaven and only a few for Hell? Or is there another world where most people are good submitters, are also going through a test and a few are going to Hell and ours just happens to be the opposite of that? Perhaps in some other worlds, the ratio is 50/ 50.

I guess if God created everyone in Heaven from the beginning then we would not know the value of being there? To create good and evil is to create meaning. Without having to strive towards goodness there would be no purpose and what's existence if we've never had first-hand experience of this? I guess free will links into this but if we didn't have free will and always did good, it would be so much easier to get to Heaven?







'These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadith) after Allah and His verses will they believe? (45:6)'

good logic

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2021, 12:46:12 AM »
Humans are only a small fraction of what GOD  has created.
There are billions of other creatures  that have submitted to GOD already including Malaika and other creatures like animals...etc. They outnumber the  humans and Jinns.
So the majority of GOD s creatures are not the humans.
Since those who have free will have  only two choices:, Obedience/submission-Heaven- or rebellion//disobedience-hell-, then the majority of those are still a small minority..
GOD always gave this choice to all the souls. It seems the majority have obeyed.
It is our choice not GOD s.
GOD s fairness .justice and mercy is clear. GOD provides guidance out of mercy and love to all creation.
It is up to humans to reflect and chose wisely.
GOD bless .
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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Jafar

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2021, 01:20:03 AM »

That most people are going to hell? What is the moral of the story?


Have you ever thought about the possibility that God actually do not make it that way?
By God here it means the infinite creator and not some crazy deity who enjoy torturing others.

Green Anarchism

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2021, 02:20:15 AM »
 :rotfl:



When your Lord said to the angels, ´I am creating a human being out of dried clay formed from fetid black mud. When I have formed him and breathed My Ruh into him, fall down in prostration in front of him!´ Then the angels prostrated all together, every one of them — except Iblis. He disdained to be one of the prostrators. He said, ´Iblis, what is it that prevents you being among the prostrators?´ He said, ´I will not prostrate to a human being whom You have created out of dried clay formed from fetid black mud.´ He said, ´Get out from here, you are accursed. The curse will be on you till the Day of Reckoning.´ (Quran 15:28-35)



They say, ´What is the matter with this Messenger, that he eats food and walks in the market-place? Why has an angel not been sent down to him so that it can be a warner along with him? Why has treasure not been showered down on him? Why does he not have a garden to give him food?´ The wrongdoers say, ´You are merely following a man who is bewitched.´ See how they make comparative judgements about you. They are misguided and cannot find the way. (25:7-9) We never sent any Messengers before you who did not eat food and walk in the market-place. But We have made some of you a trial for others to see if you will be steadfast? Your Lord sees everything. (25:20)

You can ask forgiveness for them, or not ask forgiveness for them. Even if you asked forgiveness for them seventy times, Allah still would not forgive them. That is because they have rejected Allah and His Messenger. Allah does not guide deviant people. (9:80) I swear by your Lord that they will not be considered believers until they let you/3:64 judge their disputes and then they will find nothing in their souls to prevent them from accepting your judgment, thus, submitting themselves completely to the will of God (4:65)

nimnimak_11

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2021, 01:32:25 PM »
Peace Sarah

Whilst God chose that we choose to be evil, God did not choose for us. Only that which chooses to be evil is to blame for being evil. God could not have willed for us to be evil if we had no meaningful choice in the matter, because then, by definition, we are not evil. Being free-willed is a necessary component of being evil. It is also a necessary component of being good.

Some people impose themselves to increase in sincerity to God. Some people impose themselves to destroy their sincerity to goodness, truth, and God (they fight against reason, their conscience, and their genuine sense of good). They fight to reject God, and they fight hard enough for them to deserve to be misguided.

God does not impose a person beyond its capacity. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns (Quran 2:286)

God would not have mislead Satan if Satan wasn't willingly determined to mislead Adam. If you are willing to mislead another to harm him, then you can expect God/Karma to mislead you to harm you.

ade_cool

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2021, 06:23:59 AM »
Salam Sarah,

Let's ponder on the following verses.

[6:35] And if their aversion has become too much for you, then perhaps you could make a tunnel in the earth, or a ladder to the heavens,  and bring them a sign. Had God willed, He would have gathered  them to the guidance; so do not be of the ignorant ones.

[6:149] Say: “With God is the greatest argument. If He wished He would have guided you all.”

[32:13] And if We had wished, We could have given every self its guidance, but the verdict from Me has taken effect, that I will  fill Hell with the Jinn and people all together.

[13:31] And even if that Quran, with it the mountains were made to move, or with it the earth is made to break apart, or with it the dead is made to speak, Nay, to God belong all matter. Then have those who believed not accepted that had God willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of God. Indeed, God does not break the promise.



Wassalam,

Jafar

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2021, 06:38:23 PM »
:rotfl:


When your Lord said to the angels, ´I am creating a human being out of dried clay formed from fetid black mud. When I have formed him and breathed My Ruh into him, fall down in prostration in front of him!´ Then the angels prostrated all together, every one of them — except Iblis. He disdained to be one of the prostrators. He said, ´Iblis, what is it that prevents you being among the prostrators?´ He said, ´I will not prostrate to a human being whom You have created out of dried clay formed from fetid black mud.´ He said, ´Get out from here, you are accursed. The curse will be on you till the Day of Reckoning.´ (Quran 15:28-35)




I couldn't agree more, a critical approach need to be made on the story.
A: Get out from here!
I: From where? and to where? Since You are every-where? Heeelllooo?

However, it is true that every thing are created in opposite pair.
Pride x Humility,
Love x Hate,
Fear x Courage,
Light x Darkness.
Forgiveness x Revenge/Punishment,
Happy x Sad,
Unity x Separation etc..

Because without one, the other other cannot be recognized, without dark, light cannot be recognized, without fear courage cannot be recognized. Yet both originated from the same source. And in this occasion I would like to focus on the later.

Fear is a catalyst or a way for one to finally found and experience courage.
Fear does works effectively  to control people, specifically other people.
People obey a command because they fear the punishment that came with the command.
While deep inside they don't agree with the command and really do not want to act on the command.

But the effectiveness of fear has it's limit and it works as a catalyst for people to eventually found it's opposite: courage  and through it liberate their own selves from the fear of punishment that came along with the command.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but our own selves can free out own mind.."
-- Bob Marley, Redemption Song

How long will fear works on you?
It's the question which only each of you can answer...

Green Anarchism

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2021, 10:00:33 AM »
How long will fear works on you?
It's the question which only each of you can answer...

It is the privilege of God to want nothing, and of godlike men to want little.

Therefore, there is no "pair", and there is no "fear".  :rotfl:

The saintly servants of God will feel no fear (of being human/stupid) and will know no sorrow (Quran 10:62)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysSxxIqKNN0

Jafar

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2021, 12:01:15 PM »
It is the privilege of God to want nothing, and of godlike men to want little.

All suffering was caused by desire, those who have no desire then definitely will not suffer.

Quote
Therefore, there is no "pair", and there is no "fear".  :rotfl:

The saintly servants of God will feel no fear (of being human/stupid) and will know no sorrow (Quran 10:62)


Without "fear" there will be no "courage/bravery".
Thus those who never experienced fear will also never recognize "courage/bravery".

Once "fear" is experienced, one will eventually arrived on a state where the "fear" has been resolved / handled by facing it and not running away from it. This state is called "courage/bravery".

Those who are aware of his/her/it's unity with the infinite creator will realize that his/her/it's own limited identity/persona/ego actually does not exist. He/she/it knew very well that:

- Every-thing that has a beginning will have an end.
- Every-thing that was born will experienced death.

Once the truth of the above has been recognized, then one shall resolve the 'fear'.. thus 'courage/bravery' is found.

Because the 'nature' of fear is a threat to one's existence.
Fear of death, fear of losing, fear of suffering, fear of poverty, fear of being tortured etc...
Once one has recognized that his/her/it's identity existence is actually 'temporary' / 'virtual' then one shall resolved/triumphed over fear and found courage/bravery.

A simple example on free-minds' universe.
jafar is a virtual identity, only exist on free-minds.
And jafar has a beginning, thus definitely he will also have an end, there will be time when jafar will meet it's death on free-minds universe.

And then let's say the Admin or we can also say the "God" of free-minds universe wanted to exert control over jafar behavior and opinion. Free-minds god then send out a threat to jafar, to do X or not do X (whatever X is) or else he will be punished by being killed.

jafar knew very well that he will eventually face death and also knew very well the 'virtual-ness' of his existence on free-minds.
He then answered with "Go ahead free-minds God.. kill me".

The free-minds God failed to exert control over jafar through fear.. but to at least 'save the reputation/authority' and also in order to exert control over identities other than jafar in free-minds universe, the God then move forward by killing jafar. And put jafar's case as an example to others.
"Do X (or do not do X) otherwise we will kill you as we did to jafar".

jafar felt no fear as he was threatened with death by the free-minds God and certainly since he also accepted the event of death he will also not experienced any suffering. As he has no desire to avoid death anyway.

Green Anarchism

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Re: Why did God make it this way
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2021, 10:48:40 PM »
Once the truth of the above has been recognized, then one shall resolve the 'fear'.. thus 'courage/bravery' is found.

The essence of bravery is being without self-deception.




Therefore, bravery can only be found in anarchism... "fighting is made mandatory for you!    2:216:rotfl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VFg44H2z8


ie. 'real knowledge', ie. no existence



Remember when Ibrahim/anarchist said to his father, Azar/STATISM, ´Do you take idols as gods? I see that you and your people are clearly misguided.´ Because of that We showed Ibrahim the dominions of the heavens and the earth so that he might be one of the people of certainty (6:74-75)



Who am I? (¬ self-deception)

truth of the above has been recognized
means.....

Say, "I only have one advice for you: Stand up before God (I searched for God and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only God), in pairs or individually, and then reflect/MORAL REASONING. Your companion is not crazy. He is here only to warn you of a severe impending punishment." (34:46)