Author Topic: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time  (Read 1721 times)

ThelosttruthsofIslam

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We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« on: February 16, 2021, 08:09:24 PM »
Salaam to You All My fellow Followers of The Quran and Our Prophet,

I know Ramadan 2021 is coming and I absolutely hate for true believers to perform the WRONG fast at the WRONG time of the year. With Allah's help and permission, I am trying to raise as much awareness as possible among my fellow believers who truly believe in Allah and His verses about the TRUE fasting and the CORRECT time of fasting that Allah has WRITTEN for us in the QURAN. My goal is to stop this incorrect fasting practice that causes so much harm to both body and soul and bears no fruit as evidenced by everything that is happening in the Islamic world.
Please, if you can, watch the following two videos and if you have any questions, let me know. I will be more than glad to answer any questions you might have.

1) This 1st video is a short video and overview of the Quranic fasting:
https://youtu.be/pG6wwBd1OgU

2) In this 2nd video, I discuss fasting in much greater detail and explain 2:187 and give several examples to clarify it for you:
https://youtu.be/PPE4OLwcyHw

Please, do NOT go through this Ramadan without having watched these two videos. Please do NOT harm your body by performing the wrong fast. Fasting in the Quran has nothing to do with eating and drinking. Allah has detailed (WRITTEN) fasting for us in the Quran and has given us two very clear examples about it in the Quran. But the Umayyad associators after the prophet converted the best and happiest month of the year when we have to be celebrating the Quran into a month of hunger, thirst, self torture and technically mourning.

It truly pains my heart to see people doing the wrong fast and I pray to Allah that you could do the right fast this year at the right time, InShaAllah.
May Allah guide us all to His Direct Path.

Iyyaka

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2021, 11:48:34 PM »
Salam Brother,

Thanks for sharing.
But sorry to say that but your post just demonstrates how it is easy to manipulate words of the Quran for anyone who follows his fantasy.
And i was also in the past one of them. (and probably again today even if i am trying to be careful in my conclusion).

The Quran is precise :
- For Myriam it uses the form SAWM (only one time)
- For fasting it uses the form SIYAM.

The goal of the SIYAM is explained in verse 2:183 (laʿallakum tattaqūna)

Verse 2:183 only indicates that fasting is prescribed for the Mumins as it was the case for previous monotheistic communities (Jews in context).

Peace.

ThelosttruthsofIslam

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2021, 12:59:18 AM »
Thank you for taking the time to comment but I don’t think you watched the full video.

Allah alone is my refuge from manipulating His words.

Sowm is the same as Siyam. Sowm is noun but Siyam is “masdar”. They have the exact same root with no difference at all. If you want we can talk Arabic grammer but I have an easier way to hopefully convince you :)

Let’s focus on the word “YOM”. Do you agree that "YOM" includes both day (Nahar) and night (Layl) in Arabic and in the Quran?

I think that goes without saying for anyone who is familiar with the Quran, right? I am sure you already knew that.

Then you should know that before verse 2:187 was revealed, fasting period (siyam) was 30 AYYAM meaning 30 days plus 30 nights NONSTOP. Do you really think the prophet and his followers would NOT eat and drink for 30 days and 30 nights nonstop and stay alive? Does it even make sense?

I ask one thing from you for Allah: Please watch the 2nd video fully. If I am a lier, you can easily reject it. No harm done. At least you hear some Quran and feel much better about your faith. Maybe you can guide me too. Who knows?

But if what I say is true, InShaAllah you will fast correctly this Ramadan as Allah shows us in the Quran. I also explain 2:187 in that video. 2:187 itself proves that fasting has nothing to do with eating and drinking.

Last but not the least brother: the purpose of fasting is to magnify Allah because of His Guidance (le tulakabberAllah ala ma hadakum 2:185) and also for us to become pious by not lying, not arguing, not backbiting and focusing on Allah and His words during Ramadan.

How does staying hungry and thirsty makes you and I pious and God fearing? If that was the case, then all the homeless people would be the most pious and God fearing ones among us, wouldn’t they?

If you can find me ONE Quranic example of fasting by not eating and drinking, I will make a video and recant everything I have said and owe my guidance to you for the rest of my life.

Peace to you too. All best wishes and thank you for your comment but please watch the second one.

Fasting is so clear in the Quran and Allah gives us two very clear Quranic witnesses about it through Maryam and Zechariah.

Noon waalqalami

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2021, 01:33:48 AM »
2) In this 2nd video, I discuss fasting in much greater detail and explain 2:187 and give several examples to clarify it for you:
https://youtu.be/PPE4OLwcyHw

38:00 min https://youtu.be/PPE4OLwcyHw?t=2273

peace, not always it depends on transgression

58:4 (feed 10 poor/10 days)
 فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىم fasiyamu/so abstinence (fast) شهرىن lunar cycles two...
 فمن so who لم not ىستطع is able فاطعم so feeds ستىن group of (60) مسكىنا poor of
 
5:89 (feed 10 poor/3 days)
 فكفارته so reparation its اطعم feeds عشره group of (10) مسكىن poor...
 فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىم fasiyamu/so abstinence (fast) ثلثه trio (3) اىام days

   
likewise to abstain depends on context e.g. from arguing, eating and drinking etc.

Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane

صوم

1 صَامَ , (S, M, &c.,) aor. يَصُومُ, (Msb,) inf. n. صَوْمٌ, and صِيَامٌ; (S, M, Mgh, Msb, K;) and ↓ اِصْطَامَ ; (M, K;) He abstained, (Msb, TA,) in an absolute sense: (Msb:) this is the primary signification: (TA:) [or] this is said to be the signification in the proper language of the Arabs: (Msb:) and in the language of the law, (Msb, TA,) he observed a particular kind of abstinence; (Msb;) i. e. (TA) he abstained from food (S, M, K, TA) and drink (M, K, TA) and coïtus: (M, K:) and (S, * M, &c.) by a tropical application, (TA,) (tropical:) from speech: (S, * M, Mgh, Msb, * K, TA:) or صَوْمٌ in the proper language of the Arabs signifies a man's abstaining from eating: and by a secondary application, a particular serving of God [by fasting]; (Mgh;) [i. e.] the abstaining from eating and drinking and coïtus from daybreak to sunset: (KT:) accord. to Kh, it signifies [properly] the standing without work. (S.) صام الشَّهْرَ means صام فِى الشَّهْرِ [He fasted during the month]: agreeably with what is said in the Kur ii. 181. (TA.) And it is said (S, M) by I'Ab (S) that the saying, in the Kur [xix. 27], (S, M,) إِنِّى نَذَرْتُ لِلرَّحْمٰنِ صَوْمًا means (assumed tropical:) [Verily I have vowed unto the Compassionate] an abstaining from speech. (S, M, Msb.) One says also, صام الفَرَسُ, inf. n. صَوْمٌ (S, M) and صِيَامٌ, (M,) (assumed tropical:) The horse stood without eating of fodder; (S;) or abstained from the eating of fodder. (M, A, Mgh.) And صام عَنِ السَّيْرِ (tropical:) He abstained from going along, or journeying. (TA.) ―


If killed a gazelle or chicken (ate one yesterday) how many days of no talking?

5:95
 او or كفاره reparation طعم sustenance (feed) مسكىن poor او or عدل equitable ذلك such
 صىما  siyaman/abstinence (fast) of لىذوق to taste وبال consequence امره directive his


see 7th line from top next to last word
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/95/handschrift/163


Iyyaka

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 05:39:45 AM »
Sowm is the same as Siyam. Sowm is noun but Siyam is “masdar”. They have the exact same root with no difference at all. If you want we can talk Arabic grammer but I have an easier way to hopefully convince you :)
The word siyam, which the Quran here (sura 2) and elswhere uses for "fasting" (from food, drink and sexual relationship) is a masdar of the word ṣâma. Because of the frequent use of ikhtilâf in Arabic, the exchange of wa and ya, the form swam is also possible. But in the Quran the form siyam is almost always used ; sawm appears ony in one place where the translation by "fasting" is, as a matter of fact, not possible. That the forms siyam and sawm are used by the latter Arabs quite at randon and interchgeably is a fact. But the Quran is precise. The word siyam is therefore certaintly a word of Arabic origin. The "illogical" use of sawm in sura 19 shows it means something different (even same roots) :

The atoning fast was known to the Arabs, the Quran testifies to this through its persistence in the Pilgrimage compensation rituals: S2.V196 and S5.V95.  The term ṣiyâm/fasting can therefore be logically linked to the Arabic root ṣâma which originally meant to keep a horse tied up to harden it and thus remain standing without eating, the maṣâm designating the place where it was hindered. On the other hand, the word ṣawm, used only once in connection with Mary in S19.V26, is probably borrowed from Hebrew, perhaps via Syriac, in view of the "fast of speech" practiced by Christian monks and also found in Judaism, such is the case of Mary. We note that this is one of the many examples of nuances of meaning according to the etymologies and their contextualization by the Quran.

Let’s focus on the word “YOM”. Do you agree that "YOM" includes both day (Nahar) and night (Layl) in Arabic and in the Quran?
Yes but it is not an argument.
If I say: "I worked 3 days" it doesn't mean that I worked 3*24 = 72 hours! right ?
And Quran proves us that it is during a time of the full day (from fajr to sunset). So clear..

NB : i have watched the whole video but there's a lot to say.

Peace be upon you

ThelosttruthsofIslam

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 10:58:55 AM »
Peace and blessings to you and thank you for your response :)

I just have to clarify that I ONLY AND ONLY believe in Allah and His verses and do NOT follow Hadith or personal opinions of different mufassirs or dictionary writers. Allah tells us that the Quran is there to clarify everything else (Tibyanan le kol e shaiy) not vice versa. Just so you know how I approach the discussion.

You posed the following excellent question and point:

"If killed a gazelle or chicken (ate one yesterday) how many days of no talking?"

Here is the answer: In 2:184, Allah makes it very clear for us in the Quran that each ONE day of fasting can be ransomed (atoned) by feeding ONE person from the average of what we eat, correct?

Back to your example: Let's say a gazelle can feed 10 people and a chicken can feed 2 people for the sake of the example.

Here is the equation summary: ONE day of fasting = feeding ONE person   

We could easily conclude the following:

For the gazelle, the person has to do a fasting (siyam) of 10 days, which includes 10 individual days of fast (sowm).
For the chicken (that you so mercilessly ate the other day  :eat: ;)), the person has to do a fasting (siyam) of 2 days, which includes 2 individual days of fast (sowm).

And of course by fasting I mean NO talking and praising and glorifying Allah just like Maryam and Zechariah fasted as detailed by the Quran for us.


I have a contest and a request: I will send a $100 electronic Amazon gift card or the equivalent if you don't have access to Amazon if anyone in this forum can bring me any of the following from the Quran (not hadith or other opinions):

1) An example in the Quran of someone fasting by NOT EATING AND DRINKING, OR

2) A direct commandment from Allah in the Quran that we should NOT EAT AND DRINK while fasting, OR

3) An example of an act of piety or righteousness (TAGHWA) mentioned in the Quran that involves NOT EATING AND DRINKING. (Ex. Lying, Bearing the correct testimony, Not accusing people wrongly, Talking nicely to people, Not yelling and screaming and so many others that are ALL directly mentioned in the Quran and
are ALL related to talking and the words that come out of a person's mouth).

Allah is our witness that if anyone brings me one example of the abovementioned 3 items in the Quran, I will keep my word and send you an electronic $100 gift card.


Think about it this way: Allah tells us in the Quran to wash ourselves when we use the restroom. right?
Isn't fasting in Ramadan more important than washing ourselves after using the restroom in your opinion?
If we were supposed to NOT eat and drink for 30 days, wouldn't it be worth for Allah to directly tell us NOT to eat and drink just like he tells us to wash ourselves after restroom?
 
Peace and blessings to you. Thanks for taking the time listening to me in that video. I am so grateful for your time  :hail




ThelosttruthsofIslam

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 11:17:26 AM »

Yes but it is not an argument.
If I say: "I worked 3 days" it doesn't mean that I worked 3*24 = 72 hours! right ?
And Quran proves us that it is during a time of the full day (from fajr to sunset). So clear..

NB : i have watched the whole video but there's a lot to say.

Peace be upon you

Thank you for watching it. The reason why I thought you didn't is that I actually explained the word "YOM" in detail. Lets look at two verses from the Quran together from my video

1) He said, "My Lord, make for me a sign." He said, "Your sign is that you will not (be able to) speak to the people for three (3) ay’yam (days plus nights; 72 hours NONSTOP) except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and glorify in the evening and the morning." (3:41)

Example of Zechariah, John The Baptist’s father and Maryam’s teacher
Allah imposed a mandatory 3 day fast on him during which he would NOT be able to talk to any human beings for a consecutive 72-hour period.
But how can we be sure that a YOM also included the night?

2) (Zechariah) said, "My Lord, make for me a sign." He said, "Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights, (while being) sound.“ (19:10)

In this verse, Allah puts the emphasis on the nights so we all know that “Yom” includes the night period.
This verse proves without a doubt that when Quran mentions “Yom” or “AYYAM”, it means a 24-hour period of both “day” and “night” NONSTOP.

Read both 3:42 and 19:10 and you will know for sure. You sound very educated in Arabic so I am sure you will see that the Quran is very specific and makes it clear that "YOM" does include "Nights" as well. As such, fasting by NOT EATING and DRINKING is completely out of question in the Quran and not even possible due to 2:187.

Also, pay attention that Zechariah SAID (talked about) something he should NOT have said or talked about by doubting Allah for a quick second and asking for a sign. Consequently, Allah taught him a lesson and imposed a fast (NOT TALKING) as an atonement and ransom for 3 days and 3 nights as specified by the Quran.

I hope this helped and thank you for taking the time to respond brother. Peace and blessings to you :bravo: 


Iyyaka

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2021, 11:55:13 AM »
I just have to clarify that I ONLY AND ONLY believe in Allah and His verses and do NOT follow Hadith or personal opinions of different mufassirs or dictionary writers. Allah tells us ttat the Quran is there to clarify everything else (Tibyanan le kol e shaiy) not vice versa. Just so you know how I approach the discussion.
Hi brother, you seem a good guy and i wish you the best for your life inshallah.

A question : Were you born speaking the Arabic Koranic language directly?
If not, how do you learn the language of the Koran (your methodology)?

Thank you because I am curious to know how you do it even without the classical dictionaries (and sorry if I did not understand the deep meaning of your sentence above).

Quote from: ThelosttruthsofIslam
2) A direct commandment from Allah in the Quran that we should NOT EAT AND DRINK while fasting, OR
Knowing the structure of the Quran is important, especially the flow of discourse.
I invite you to consult my pdf to have a better view of the structure of the passage on fasting in Sura 2 (https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2021-01-24.pdf).

The words "Eat and drink" are found in verse [2:187] which deals with the particular theme of sexual intercourse during fasting (permission? under what conditions? restrictions?).
It begins by evoking the time of night. Thus, logically (coz we are in fact at night), the Qur'an calls for "Eat and Drink" (it is permitted at night but only...)
until dawn (represented by the white thread that stands out from the darkness of the night). Then, practice fasting continously (which is in opposition to what is permitted at night: no eating, drinking, or sexual intercourse) until night.
Two distinct phases in the day set in opposition to each other. So, everything is clear when one respects the flow of discourse.

May Allah guide us in a better conduct.
Sorry if i was a little ironic (i hope you have a little bit of humor - otherwise, accept my forgiveness).

ThelosttruthsofIslam

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 01:49:17 PM »
No need for apology at all. Of course I do accept dictionaries as far as they give us the meanings of the word and the specifics but some dictionaries start delving into tafsir of the Quran, which becomes the opinion of the author at that point. Some just document common beliefs of the people.

Back to the fasting topic:

The only reason why we assume the flow you mentioned is because we grew up believing fasting is not eating and drinking. That's why our brains automatically makes that flow and that association.

Nowhere in that verse Allah says do NOT eat or drink. Let me give you an example:

Again, read these two examples:

Ex 1) Eat and drink until morning. Then, take care of your younger brother up to the night.

Ex 2) Eat and drink until morning. Then, go to school until night.


Does it mean you should NOT be eating and drinking while taking care of your younger brother or while in school? Of course NOT

Also, there are two other things that the verse tells us to do until dawn in that verse:

1.Talk and have contact with your wives
2.Seek what Allah has written for you
3.Eat and drink
Until dawn, Then complete the fast...

Do you have to stop 1 and 2 as well? If you apply negation, you have to negate 1 and 2 as well because that is the natural flow but you can't because then you have to stop seeking what Allah has written for you, which results in you NOT fasting and saying prayers and paying zakat and etc.

Also, as I mentioned the word AYYAM includes both day and night. How could have anyone fasted both day and night for 30 days?
Fasting was initially 30 days and 30 nights of NOT talking but Allah discounted the nights.


Please watch this video and scroll to 9:00. I explain 2:187 in excruciating detail with several examples.

https://youtu.be/PPE4OLwcyHw


By the way, thank you for your very kind comment. I am NOT a good person at all. I consider myself a horrible person. I am hoping and praying that with spreading His word, Allah will have mercy on me and help me become better.

Thanks for bearing with me and reading my comments and explanations and watching my very boring videos. I appreciate it :)
 





Noon waalqalami

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Re: We as Muslims Have Been Fasting the WRONG fast at the WORNG Time
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2021, 03:19:21 PM »
Here is the answer: In 2:184, Allah makes it very clear for us in the Quran that each ONE day of fasting can be ransomed (atoned) by feeding ONE person from the average of what we eat, correct?

peace -- no not always again you neglect 5:89 feed 10 poor/3 days?

فكفارته so reparation its اطعم feeds عشره group of (10) مسكىن poor...
 فمن so who لم not ىجد find فصىم fasiyamu/so abstinence (fast) ثلثه trio (3) اىام days


likewise saudi billionaires can feed a whole city, no made up restrictions (limits) by money-grubbers.

2:184 ... وعلى and on الذىن the ones ىطىقونه can afford it فدىه ransom (payment) طعم sustenance (feed) مسكىن poor

And of course by fasting I mean NO talking...

no talking 2 months if you kill a large camel, right?

a billion people don't talk for a whole month, text only right?

Quote
I will send a $100 electronic Amazon gift card

Quote
Also, as I mentioned the word AYYAM includes both day and night.

context is your friend!

34:18 ... سىروا travel they of فىها therein لىالى layaliya/nights واىاما wa-ayyaman/and (by) days of امنىن safe

give $99 to first homeless person you see and keep $1 for yourself!  ;D

 :peace: