Author Topic: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?  (Read 665 times)

Iyyaka

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Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« on: December 20, 2020, 09:28:59 AM »
Salam aleykoum,

After much hesitation, the structural analysis of the text and the intra-textuality analysis lead me to the conclusion that "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā", at the verse [2:238], means the medium-balanced prayer, i.e. neither too long nor too short.

Verse [2:238] therefore deals with the time of prayer, its duration and the attitude of the praying person toward God.

For more details (page 51 of the pdf) : https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2020-12-20.pdf

tutti_frutti

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 05:25:44 PM »
salam iyyaka

i just would like to please share my understanding of “salat al-wusta”

i believe it to mean the prayer on the day of congregation which in our era is friday (whether friday is the correct actual day or wether day of congregation is simply the day when people gather and it became friday... or wether it is everyday when time when people... i dont know ... i personally pray the salat al wusta on friday duhr time as it is when people gather)

also i think there is no set length of prayers but rather prayer is from sunset until literally darkness and throughout the night and fajr (i think prayers should be long in length)

peace

Wakas

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2020, 01:51:53 AM »
Salam aleykoum,

After much hesitation, the structural analysis of the text and the intra-textuality analysis lead me to the conclusion that "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā", at the verse [2:238], means the medium-balanced prayer, i.e. neither too long nor too short.

Verse [2:238] therefore deals with the time of prayer, its duration and the attitude of the praying person toward God.

For more details (page 51 of the pdf) : https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2020-12-20.pdf

Context doesn't mention length/duration.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Iyyaka

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2020, 07:50:32 AM »
Salam aleykoum Tutti_frutti and wakas,

Thanks for your comments but I have given my arguments in my pdf, taking into account the composition of the text and the relations that its different elements have between them (as opposed to an atomistic reading).

Thus, according to this structural, thematic and lexical analysis, the syntagm "wa-ṣ-ṣalâtu-l-wusṭâ" then means word for word: "and the prayer of the right balance/wusṭâ**". That is to say, a balanced prayer; neither too long, because ostentation reveals insincerity, nor too short, because neglect denotes lack of seriousness.
=> the meta-theme of the Quranic passage (2:178...242) is based on the principle of equilibrium, i.e. the absence of excess (being between two extremes).

**The term wusṭâ is the feminine of awsaṭ: medium, middle, half, in the right balance/way, balanced, median.


Iyyaka

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2021, 02:48:23 AM »
I change my mind on this tricky subject (below - pages 60-63 of the PDF or notes 17, 18 from sura 2) :

https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2021-01-17.pdf

Wakas

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2021, 03:26:09 AM »
I have not read all your work, only pages 60-63. Your translation of 11:114 and 30:18 is poor. Have you read this?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

Where do you get "noon" from in your interpretation of 62:9?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Iyyaka

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2021, 05:54:55 AM »
I have not read all your work, only pages 60-63. Your translation of 11:114 and 30:18 is poor.
I made a mistake in the english PDF I published (it's an old one).
If you click now you will get the right version.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2021-01-17.pdf (pages 60-64)

My reading has not changed (salat al wusta = the average prayer [in length]) but I have exposed the 6 opinions I know. It's up to each one to make his own opinion on this delicate subject. I also expressed myself badly in my last post. Sorry for that too.

To summarize my point of view (at that moment), there are 3 clear daily prayers in the Quran:
- morning
- evening
- dark night (nocturnal vigil)
My translation reflects this state of affairs, in line with what the Arabic language allows from the quranic time.

I have not read all your work, only pages 60-63.
It is a loss for you - structure helps to resolve some meanings, making the textual context more clearly visible.

Quote
Have you read this?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
YES.

Quote
Where do you get "noon" from in your interpretation of 62:9?
"Plausible hypothesis" (historical view) based on tradition and quranic text : it is in the middle of the day because it is the traditional midday rest time (nap time! cf. 24:58). Afterwards, people must then disperse to their business occupations (afternoon time seems the more appropriate time).

---------
NB :
(30:18) - tuẓ'hirūna - you are at noon.
https://www.haqeeqat.pk/roots/(926).htm
=> visible-apparent sun + predominant (61:9) sun   = "noon time" (max high) or eventually "in broad daylight"

Mazhar

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM »
Root: و س ط
Ibn Faris [died 1005] stated:

(مقاييس اللغة)

 الواو والسين والطاء: بناءٌ صحيح يدلُّ على العَدل والنِّصف ووَسْطَ القوم بسكونه

That it leads to the perception of justice and to be in the midst; and for the people in tranquility and calmness.

Lane Lexicon: [The middle, midst, or middle part, of a thing; i. e., properly, the part of which several lateral, or outer, portions are equal; as, for instance, the middle finger:



These are two sentences, compound by conjunct.  The Adjectival Phrase has Elative Noun: Definite; Singular; feminine; genitive.

It denotes location and time frame reference in minimum 5 locations/time zones by solar ephemeris.  Relatively in the middle with  two on both sides. Two of night and two of day,


https://www.haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm


Iyyaka

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2021, 10:27:53 PM »
Root: و س ط
Ibn Faris [died 1005] stated:

(مقاييس اللغة)

 الواو والسين والطاء: بناءٌ صحيح يدلُّ على العَدل والنِّصف ووَسْطَ القوم بسكونه

That it leads to the perception of justice and to be in the midst; and for the people in tranquility and calmness.

Lane Lexicon: [The middle, midst, or middle part, of a thing; i. e., properly, the part of which several lateral, or outer, portions are equal; as, for instance, the middle finger:



These are two sentences, compound by conjunct.  The Adjectival Phrase has Elative Noun: Definite; Singular; feminine; genitive.

It denotes location and time frame reference in minimum 5 locations/time zones by solar ephemeris.  Relatively in the middle with  two on both sides. Two of night and two of day,


https://www.haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm
Thanks for your study.
But for me the text clearly shows only 3 daily moments (morning, evening and night) and 1 periodic moment (Sura 62 - Al-Jumu`a):
see note 17 and the table (page 60...of the PDF) : https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2021-01-24.pdf

Mazhar

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Re: Verse 2:238 - "l-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā" ?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2021, 02:09:43 AM »
Thanks for your study.
But for me the text clearly shows only 3 daily moments (morning, evening and night) and 1 periodic moment (Sura 62 - Al-Jumu`a):
see note 17 and the table (page 60...of the PDF) : https://reveniraucoran.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Literary_Composition_of_the_Quran-2021-01-24.pdf

Five is explicit,



The other two are also mentioned by Time. Since it is time=bound protocol time its zone and limits are given,

The three isnegated in this sentence also