Life Span

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

1) i do speak within Quran (it’s the only book of knowledge form The God we have) i am saying that within Quran we do not know what happens to those who died very young... i dont see (at least as of yet) the answer in the Quran to your question except that those who will be in life will have had a life long enough to deserve hell (surah 35 verse 37)

what does life long enough mean in that verse? what happens to those who die very young? no idea ... but from Quran 35:37 i understand those in hell had a “long enough life”

can we base life span on surah 46 verse 15? i do not know ...

also remember that those in hell will say that they were given life twice and killed twice ...

2) i never said The God is not fair ... The God is fair ! all GOOD names are His. He IS the Just.

i said The God does what He wants and He CHOSE to have mercy on all things and to be just and given He is the truth and told us He will be just ... then i understand He will be just ... again my point is that He does what He wants and that He “chooses” and is NEVER obligated to do anything

example if He wanted to not resurrect us He would not. But He made it a promise to ressurevt us so He will. He CHOSS to resurrect us and CHOSE to make it a promise to resurrect.

i never said he is not true to His promise... i said He chose to be merciful and just ... He is the truth and so whatever He told us in The Quran is the truth

basically the point i am making is that He choses and is never obligated to do anything

example there was a verse where he said He decreed mercy on Himself and not that He haaaaad to be merciful from the start to His creation

3) what i meant by exempt of judgement is that (per my u derstanding) of the three groups two will not be judged (forerunners and people of fhe right) because The God forgave them as He judged they are believers  and have done good works but those of the left will be judged ... i remember a verse where The God says somethinf among the lines of “they will be summoned to judgment” where i understood that the people of hell will be summoned to judgement but those of paradise will be forgiven and not judged

my u derdtandong is the people on the left will be judged fully in that they will stand before The God alongside that which they worshiped (the jinn) and every one of the left people and the devil companion assigned to each pf the rejectors that they called upon/worshipped will start to blame each other and be judged ...

so by being judged i mean they will stand “trial” in front of The God whilst the other two groups have been jugded worthy of paradise

4) i am sorry but i dont understand your answer about the moses pbuh discussion

my point by citing that episode was to give an example that there are things we do not know

5) i never said the child will be in paradise or whatso or that just cause someone was killed they will enter paradise ! (i understand being killed is just another way of dying that is all) .. the knowledge of everyone is with The God ...

my point  was that can we infere from the verse that on judgement day the child will be a child .. so did she have a second chance at life as an adult? or her worldly life was limited to her having existed as a child only? we have no idea

you say “Not coz those children were killed and they deserve emotions and better place... One evil person may harm another evil person for lifetime.. But it doesn't mean one deserve pardon... Just stick to the point that God questions every soul.. Problem solved... Everything will be measured of their life time.. And will be given what they deserve... “

there you go ! you ANSWERED your own question/thread brother

peace

[good logic]

Peace jkhan.
You say quoteL
"Don't confuse ahasb a'raf ... God forgave them and put them in Janna... Remember.. FORGAVE and JANNA... they were not babies or innocent disable people.. But recognize everything... Read carefully those verses.. Forgave coz they did wrong... Like we all do and did... But they didn't deserve Jahanna and they deserved Janna...and they will enjoy loke other inmates of Janna... Did they get free ticket to Janna?  No way... No one enters there without hard work... No one enters hell but most wicked... To be most wicked you need life span... To enter you need life span... So simple... That's God's way... So we within Quran... I do believe that every single soul has lived at least once in their life time a complete life span... To say so.. For most God has given two lives..."

You do not know who they are neither do I. GOD can also forgive (THE PAST LIFE REBELLION)  those that had not got the chance for a life span like babies or. disabled or.....   and give them Janna Why not?

Or what are you suggesting?
I am not going to guess or speculate, GOD has got good reasons and is aware of all the situations. His plan caters for all of us no matter how long the life span.
We cannot know certain things but we know  for sure that GOD will sort us out with justice according to HIS knowledge ,wisdom and Mercy.
The most important  issue is each individual will be satisfied with GOD s judgement.
The most important question is: What is our own life span and what are we doing with it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[tutti_frutti]

salam

i just want to share my understanding about people of a3raf and verses concerning them

i understand they are not a “special” category of people

rather i believe they are simply those whom The God has forgiven and permitted them paradise

being on the elevations (a3raf) is a step before entering paradise perhaps

that’s my understanding

peace

[jkhan]

salam jkhan

1) i do speak within Quran (it’s the only book of knowledge form The God we have) i am saying that within Quran we do not know what happens to those who died very young... i dont see (at least as of yet) the answer in the Quran to your question except that those who will be in life will have had a life long enough to deserve hell (surah 35 verse 37)

what does life long enough mean in that verse? what happens to those who die very young? no idea ... but from Quran 35:37 i understand those in hell had a “long enough life”

can we base life span on surah 46 verse 15? i do not know ...

also remember that those in hell will say that they were given life twice and killed twice ...

2) i never said The God is not fair ... The God is fair ! all GOOD names are His. He IS the Just.

i said The God does what He wants and He CHOSE to have mercy on all things and to be just and given He is the truth and told us He will be just ... then i understand He will be just ... again my point is that He does what He wants and that He “chooses” and is NEVER obligated to do anything

example if He wanted to not resurrect us He would not. But He made it a promise to ressurevt us so He will. He CHOSS to resurrect us and CHOSE to make it a promise to resurrect.

i never said he is not true to His promise... i said He chose to be merciful and just ... He is the truth and so whatever He told us in The Quran is the truth

basically the point i am making is that He choses and is never obligated to do anything

example there was a verse where he said He decreed mercy on Himself and not that He haaaaad to be merciful from the start to His creation

3) what i meant by exempt of judgement is that (per my u derstanding) of the three groups two will not be judged (forerunners and people of fhe right) because The God forgave them as He judged they are believers  and have done good works but those of the left will be judged ... i remember a verse where The God says somethinf among the lines of “they will be summoned to judgment” where i understood that the people of hell will be summoned to judgement but those of paradise will be forgiven and not judged

my u derdtandong is the people on the left will be judged fully in that they will stand before The God alongside that which they worshiped (the jinn) and every one of the left people and the devil companion assigned to each pf the rejectors that they called upon/worshipped will start to blame each other and be judged ...

so by being judged i mean they will stand “trial” in front of The God whilst the other two groups have been jugded worthy of paradise

4) i am sorry but i dont understand your answer about the moses pbuh discussion

my point by citing that episode was to give an example that there are things we do not know

5) i never said the child will be in paradise or whatso or that just cause someone was killed they will enter paradise ! (i understand being killed is just another way of dying that is all) .. the knowledge of everyone is with The God ...

my point  was that can we infere from the verse that on judgement day the child will be a child .. so did she have a second chance at life as an adult? or her worldly life was limited to her having existed as a child only? we have no idea

you say “Not coz those children were killed and they deserve emotions and better place... One evil person may harm another evil person for lifetime.. But it doesn't mean one deserve pardon... Just stick to the point that God questions every soul.. Problem solved... Everything will be measured of their life time.. And will be given what they deserve... “

there you go ! you ANSWERED your own question/thread brother

peace

I understand you... If you are speaking within Quran,  I am not against it and will never be..

Every verse which talks about people of Jahanna and Janna they seems clearly spent a long life to remind about their past...

Your statement "basically the point i am making is that He choses and is never obligated to do anything"

Wrong... He is obligated... He took everything as His obligation.... By promising that He will repeat the creation He took it as His obligation...

If He wants He can avoid his obligations.. That's His will...no one to complain.. But,  He won't... As He spoke in quran.. "If I were to destroy  Maryam and Jesus and everyone on earth......." So,  He can... But He won't... That's why we call Him our God.. He is Truth.. So as human, just expect what He spoke... Who is truthful than God?...  That clearly indicates whatever He spoke will happen...

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan.
You say quoteL
"Don't confuse ahasb a'raf ... God forgave them and put them in Janna... Remember.. FORGAVE and JANNA... they were not babies or innocent disable people.. But recognize everything... Read carefully those verses.. Forgave coz they did wrong... Like we all do and did... But they didn't deserve Jahanna and they deserved Janna...and they will enjoy loke other inmates of Janna... Did they get free ticket to Janna?  No way... No one enters there without hard work... No one enters hell but most wicked... To be most wicked you need life span... To enter you need life span... So simple... That's God's way... So we within Quran... I do believe that every single soul has lived at least once in their life time a complete life span... To say so.. For most God has given two lives..."

You do not know who they are neither do I. GOD can also forgive (THE PAST LIFE REBELLION)  those that had not got the chance for a life span like babies or. disabled or.....   and give them Janna Why not?

Or what are you suggesting?
I am not going to guess or speculate, GOD has got good reasons and is aware of all the situations. His plan caters for all of us no matter how long the life span.
We cannot know certain things but we know  for sure that GOD will sort us out with justice according to HIS knowledge ,wisdom and Mercy.
The most important  issue is each individual will be satisfied with GOD s judgement.
The most important question is: What is our own life span and what are we doing with it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Your statement "You do not know who they are neither do I. GOD can also forgive (THE PAST LIFE REBELLION)  those that had not got the chance for a life span like babies or. disabled or.....   and give them Janna Why not?"

Did God say that He forgives and give them Janna?  God has clearly said who deserves Janna and who deserves Jahanna.. No changes would  be on that..

God destroyed nations where babies and differently able or  mentally ill etc etc would have lived.. For example.. During well known 2004 tsunami tens of thousands of babies died... Those who were left saved are good or given their life span.. God destroyed... No one but God did that .. If human killed a girl and God says it will be questioned why she was killed.. No one to ask why God killed at the same time... But human cannot kill, no authority..

Musa's teacher obviously killed an innocent boy not even asked his parents.... Interestingly reason to kill him is he would become a tyrant /oppressor in the future... Wow... Will that be a good choice in the current system of law... Every human on this earth would probably against that barbaric act...
Killing a boy expecting him to be a tyrant or rather evil person.. What a shame... He is not evil while he was killed(in our eyes) .. . He was just an innocent boy(at least musa said so) ... Why not kill him when in fact he's evil when well grown.. Why not kill him when in fact he becomes oppressing and hurting his parents...Why not give him  LIFE SPAN? What's wrong if he tortures his parents (he can be judged on the judgement day) . Why kill in advance while he didn't commit such a crime yet?  Do you get how serious that is?

How would  you justify this?
That's why I believe in life span and two times for evil people(disbeliever)... Didn't God know this boy was evil in his last life span and lived his full quota? Yes God knew... Will those who get their second life be ever good again?  I am afraid No... Coz they themselves in Hell agree that they were given two lives and two deaths... But still ended in hell.. But believers claim in Janna they died once..

God rightly killed that boy coz his life/test completed... Sameway.. All those God destroy/ed immature God knows they deserve not coz they are babies or innocent or mentally ill but they were evil in their past lives...

Now.. Let's hope on the day of ressurection, this same boy questions God.. In this manner .. Why you killed me God while I was innocent.. I never tortured my parents(his parents also agree suppose coz they were not tortured) .. I never knew anything.. I was just a little boy... How unfair you are my Lord... Can't he complain so?  Yes he can.. Coz it is judgment day.. So fight for justice... So listening to this God forgive him and give him Janna  ... Well well well... Is that what we expect the truthful God?
I don't see any justice either God give the boy Janna or Jahanna... No justice at all...
If God give the boy Janna then the one who killed him should be questioned as to why you killed him... Isn't that fair?

If God gives the boy Jahanna, then what for?

Incomplete life is never possible... Complete life span will decide our destiny.. And God definitely give complete life to every human being...

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

we are saying the same thing i think

He is not obligated to do anything but He will do what He told us in Quran because He is the Truth

He chose to do the things He told us in Quran

He chose to decree mercy on Himself and chose to bring us back after our death and chose everything He told told us in Quran

He is not obliged to do anything He told us but He chose to do them and given He never breaks His promises and He is the Truth, we understand He will do what He told us He will

as you mentioned ... can He just destroy everything on earth and the heavens? yes! and not bring anyone back and remain only Him in existmece forever? most definitely He can! and if He wanted He would

will He not deliver on what He told us He would? i understand No because He told us in Quran what He will be doing such as bringing us back so that is what will happen

regarding what you said about the boy killed by moses’ pbuh teacher ... we do not know what age he was nor if he was bad already and by the verse about him the teacher perhaps means “overburden” his parents with grief and diabelief and not just “burden” (meaning the boy was already an issue for his parents) .. or simply that The God knows the boy will never change ... recall when The God told noah pbuh to not debate about his people as they will be drowned and none will believe ! so no matter what there are people who will not believe as perhaps their hearts are soo bad that The God sealed them from believing

believing is a gift from The God and it is Him who permits whomever He wills to believe or not ... so who gets to believe or not depends on The God

we should seriously feel grateful that we were permitted to believe and strive and make excellent use of this gift from The God .. the gift of being believers in The God



peace

[jkhan]

salam jkhan

we are saying the same thing i think

He is not obligated to do anything but He will do what He told us in Quran because He is the Truth

He chose to do the things He told us in Quran

He chose to decree mercy on Himself and chose to bring us back after our death and chose everything He told told us in Quran

He is not obliged to do anything He told us but He chose to do them and given He never breaks His promises and He is the Truth, we understand He will do what He told us He will

as you mentioned ... can He just destroy everything on earth and the heavens? yes! and not bring anyone back and remain only Him in existmece forever? most definitely He can! and if He wanted He would

will He not deliver on what He told us He would? i understand No because He told us in Quran what He will be doing such as bringing us back so that is what will happen

regarding what you said about the boy killed by moses’ pbuh teacher ... we do not know what age he was nor if he was bad already and by the verse about him the teacher perhaps means “overburden” his parents with grief and diabelief and not just “burden” (meaning the boy was already an issue for his parents) .. or simply that The God knows the boy will never change ... recall when The God told noah pbuh to not debate about his people as they will be drowned and none will believe ! so no matter what there are people who will not believe as perhaps their hearts are soo bad that The God sealed them from believing

believing is a gift from The God and it is Him who permits whomever He wills to believe or not ... so who gets to believe or not depends on The God

we should seriously feel grateful that we were permitted to believe and strive and make excellent use of this gift from The God .. the gift of being believers in The God



peace

10:103 "Then We shall deliver Our Messengers and the believers. Even so, as is Our bounden duty, We shall deliver the believers."


It is not choice.. But shear obligation...
Brother choosing and obligation / duty is entirely different... Choice is option but not obligation...
For example He chosed to give me poverty... It is not his obligation.. ..He may make me rich as well.. Not obligated.. But He does what He will.... Obligation is connected with promise and being truthful to it.. ...it is obligatory..

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhab

The God CHOSE to make it an obligation to help His messengers and make them the victors alongside the believers ..

He has NO constraints ... if He did have constraints (The God please forgive me for saying such saying) .. then who set those constraints???

if He set obligations on Himself then He CHOSE to set them (they are not obligations anyways but in a manner of speaking)

The God is never obligated to do anything ! He does as He pleases

His promises are truth so whatever He says is the Truth and we understand He will fulfill His promises

peace