Author Topic: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?  (Read 662 times)

reel

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Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« on: July 27, 2020, 02:16:02 AM »
This verse was discussed previously here. All of them are focused on prophet marrying Zaid’s wife. But are we seeing it right? The surrounding verses seem to be causing contradiction. I would like someone to analyze it.

33:36 It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should thereafter have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Comment: Why then messenger "chooses" to "disobey" Allah by hiding his  "decision" in the next verse? That's like setting a bad example for his followers. Or is it more like someone didn't want to accept a decision of Allah and His Messenger and hence thought to just hide it as given in 33:37?

33:37 And  when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and fear Allah ," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished.

Comment: If the person marrying truly is the Prophet why wouldn't Allah include him in "there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons"? Similar line is included in the next verse for the Prophet but here we find "imposed upon him".

33:38 There is not to be upon the Prophet any discomfort concerning that which Allah has imposed upon him. This is the established way of Allah with those prophets who have passed on before. And ever is the command of Allah a destiny decreed.

33:39 Those who convey the messages of Allah and fear Him and do not fear anyone but Allah. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Comment: What's the point of making Prophet marry the divorced wife of his adopted son to set an example for believers if he can't be called father by any men (that would include his adopted son)?

Your analysis will be appreciated. Thanks.
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jkhan

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 11:50:43 PM »
This verse was discussed previously here. All of them are focused on prophet marrying Zaid’s wife. But are we seeing it right? The surrounding verses seem to be causing contradiction. I would like someone to analyze it.

33:36 It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should thereafter have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Comment: Why then messenger "chooses" to "disobey" Allah by hiding his  "decision" in the next verse? That's like setting a bad example for his followers. Or is it more like someone didn't want to accept a decision of Allah and His Messenger and hence thought to just hide it as given in 33:37?

33:37 And  when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and fear Allah ," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished.

Comment: If the person marrying truly is the Prophet why wouldn't Allah include him in "there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons"? Similar line is included in the next verse for the Prophet but here we find "imposed upon him".

33:38 There is not to be upon the Prophet any discomfort concerning that which Allah has imposed upon him. This is the established way of Allah with those prophets who have passed on before. And ever is the command of Allah a destiny decreed.

33:39 Those who convey the messages of Allah and fear Him and do not fear anyone but Allah. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Comment: What's the point of making Prophet marry the divorced wife of his adopted son to set an example for believers if he can't be called father by any men (that would include his adopted son)?

Your analysis will be appreciated. Thanks.

Peace...

I don't know what they discussed previously.. I wish you share the topic.. But since you said they all agreed Zaid's ex-wife was married to Mohamed was concerted answer...  I think that is right.. I don't see any concerns like you slightly have..
Below your comment..

"Why then messenger "chooses" to "disobey" Allah by hiding his  "decision" in the next verse?..."

Messenger can never disobey. . Then he is not messenger... Prophet Mohamed disobeyed coz it was his personal matter after all but he failed to grasp though it is his personal matter the intention of God is not his personal matter but for all that adopted son's ex-wife can be legally married..
It was not Mohamed's individual decision to marry her.. But it was God's decision that Mohammed take model to be ideal to others coz Mohamed was their leader..  But clearly as a person Mohamed was not within his agreement to do so coz it was very uncommon or rather never ever happened  in that society...
That led him to say what he said forgetting that it was a message of God..  But,  God doesn't need to act like Mohamed coz God knows what is right..
Further you would have noticed that this zawwajna is from God's side.. God's order or arrangement not of personal choice... Marriage is personal choice normally.. But it was compelled... Like God let us marry in the Janna but not our choice but God's choice..

Prophets (not messengers) are always should be ready to take risk and most of the time that they probably personally not willing to do as a person... If you read all prophets stories you would notice the unwillingness of prophets or fear to carry out certain task but God orders and pushes ... They in the end surrendered to perform..
Likewise God ordered the prophet the person to marry his adopted son's ex-wife even against his willingness.. That's how all prophet in the past when God ordered something to do they performed willingly or unwillingly .. That's the sunna and mohamed  cannot deny that...

33:38 is very clear.. No prophet should feel discomfort upon the order of God.. That's the way of God.. And those who are selected to convey messages of God it is a decree..  And remember Sister reel this verse not meant for marriage.. But any order..(for example war etc)
So all prophet obeyed to it in the past in what they were commanded to do apart from delivering messages... And not exempted Mohamed..

Why God says Mohamed is not father of any of men coz if they take Mohamed as father (like an icon)  then they won't do what Mohamed did... But God confirms he is a messenger.. So messenger is to be followed...
No need to follow Mohamed like a father.. But follow message.. In this particular case Mohamed followed the message by marrying her and shown to the society that you can marry adopted son's ex-wife... 
God could have merely passed the message like " it is allowed to marry your adopted son's ex-wife" or include in the list who are allowed to marry, but God knew it won't happen practically unless the prophet be the role model in doing so.. So once they saw Prophet living with her normal life they gradually do the same... Otherwise it will end up only an instruction only remain with the book... There could be in that society many a adopted sons and may be they died in war or disease or even divorce etc etc.. So God allowed it.. anyhow adopted sons never the own biological sons of anyone.. That's God's law...

Hope you got me...

reel

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2020, 12:30:49 PM »
Peace...

I don't know what they discussed previously.. I wish you share the topic.. But since you said they all agreed Zaid's ex-wife was married to Mohamed was concerted answer...  I think that is right.. I don't see any concerns like you slightly have..

Thanks for the reply. Previously, the idea of prophet marrying the lady was questioned here. All of us stay vulnerable to how traditionalists understood/corrupted the verses via hadiths. Zaid's and Zainab's identities come from hadiths. They claim Zaid was prophet's adopted son. As for Zainab, she is prophet's first cousin. But Allah tells us to not marry children of our siblings in 4:23.


I didn't see anyone mentioning 33:36 which seems to signal verdict given by Allah and his messenger was intentionally rejected by the man whose case details then were summarized in 33:37. 

I am also not sure why Prophet would advice Zaid to keep his wife just like that. I mean we have several verses in which Allah gives guidance on how to solve marital conflicts before going for divorce.



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Neptin

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 04:07:16 AM »
This verse was discussed previously here. All of them are focused on prophet marrying Zaid’s wife. But are we seeing it right? The surrounding verses seem to be causing contradiction. I would like someone to analyze it.

33:36 It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should thereafter have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Comment: Why then messenger "chooses" to "disobey" Allah by hiding his  "decision" in the next verse? That's like setting a bad example for his followers. Or is it more like someone didn't want to accept a decision of Allah and His Messenger and hence thought to just hide it as given in 33:37?

33:37 And  when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and fear Allah ," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished.

The question here is, what is 'that which Allah is to disclose'? It seem like an instruction, but if it had not been disclosed yet, then it hadn't been disobeyed. This is key.

Quote
Comment: If the person marrying truly is the Prophet why wouldn't Allah include him in "there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons"? Similar line is included in the next verse for the Prophet but here we find "imposed upon him".

The word you translated as 'discomfort' rather implies 'resistance'. Resistance from community, not from the individual in question.

Quote
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Comment: What's the point of making Prophet marry the divorced wife of his adopted son to set an example for believers if he can't be called father by any men (that would include his adopted son)?

The point seem to be to reinforce verses 33:4-5, which distinguish adopted sons from blood sons.
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Fadiva

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 04:37:54 AM »
Peace,

It's seems to be nabi Muhammad who married her. As i understand when reading those translations.
I remember having read it discussed in other forums ( i wonder if they still exist). It is admitted that the nabi married Zayd's ex wife in order to show the example.
From verse 37 we can understand this marriage was to put an end to the discomfort the believers feeled about the idea to marry an adopted son's wife. Maybe seen as immoral.

I also read criticism about it ( Muhammad inventing this in order to marry a woman he wanted...speculations), which disturbed me at that time.


I'm sorry but I have another question:

33:36 It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should thereafter have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Do/Did Allah and his messenger decide matters together ? That idea is quite disturbing to me. Laws decided by Allah and his messenger (mutually decided) ?
I don't understand.


jkhan

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 05:18:58 AM »
Thanks for the reply. Previously, the idea of prophet marrying the lady was questioned here. All of us stay vulnerable to how traditionalists understood/corrupted the verses via hadiths. Zaid's and Zainab's identities come from hadiths. They claim Zaid was prophet's adopted son. As for Zainab, she is prophet's first cousin. But Allah tells us to not marry children of our siblings in 4:23.


I didn't see anyone mentioning 33:36 which seems to signal verdict given by Allah and his messenger was intentionally rejected by the man whose case details then were summarized in 33:37. 

I am also not sure why Prophet would advice Zaid to keep his wife just like that. I mean we have several verses in which Allah gives guidance on how to solve marital conflicts before going for divorce.

33:53 "O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. ......"

Take the above verse... As a prophet he should deliver this verse and as well implement... Coz it is relevant to him personal like Zaid's matter..

Do you think prophet mohamed would have implemented it?  Do you think on every occasion he would have told the people to leave after the meal.. But,  it doesn't mean he didn't follow the message... But certain messages are not easy to implement... It takes quite lot of thing from inside a person..

See the contrasting difference..  In Zaid's  case Mohamed didn't like it.. In the above case he likes but he is unable to implement it.. He is shy..
So what Mohamed told to Zaid just keep your wife is so personal and kindness and human nature...  But for sure they divorced.. Divorce would have taken place coz of much valid reason.. There is nothing Mohamed could do if it ends in divorce.. He would have tried to unite them.. But in vain...

Also note that even though God ordered in the verse Mohamed to marry her,  she should be willing to do so.. Cannot force her.. But God can force Mohamed coz he is bound to perform as a prophet the decree and command of God like all previous prophets..  So we have to deduce she agreed not only coz it was a message but she liked... She found Mohamed better than Zaid.. Isn't she?...

So to wind up... Simply we have to think that Mohamed was a human vulnerable for errors and human nature...

When he delivered messages his job is over.. But message itself is about him, he act as human... Like us.. Do we follow all the messages of Quran all of sudden.. How long it takes us to make up our mind... But imagine when all of a sudden a message comes and to marry someone who he might have treated like daughter... What else he would tell rather than what he told to Zaid.. Don't find fault in it... It's so natural... That's why God soothed him.. Fear me not society...

We shouldn't come to conclude like how he hid while being a prophet... He was a human.. And didn't hide it for life and didn't disobey forever.. Look at it in a positive angle...

Neptin

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2020, 05:35:27 AM »
Peace,

It's seems to be nabi Muhammad who married her. As i understand when reading those translations.
I remember having read it discussed in other forums ( i wonder if they still exist). It is admitted that the nabi married Zayd's ex wife in order to show the example.
From verse 37 we can understand this marriage was to put an end to the discomfort the believers feeled about the idea to marry an adopted son's wife. Maybe seen as immoral.

I also read criticism about it ( Muhammad inventing this in order to marry a woman he wanted...speculations), which disturbed me at that time.


I'm sorry but I have another question:

33:36 It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should thereafter have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Do/Did Allah and his messenger decide matters together ? That idea is quite disturbing to me. Laws decided by Allah and his messenger (mutually decided) ?
I don't understand.

It seem to be the usual language of Qur'an to interchange God and Messenger. You could still say it implies mutual decision between God and Messenger, and nothing is wrong in that. Since, the Messenger never differ on God's decision.
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jkhan

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2020, 08:12:21 AM »
It seem to be the usual language of Qur'an to interchange God and Messenger. You could still say it implies mutual decision between God and Messenger, and nothing is wrong in that. Since, the Messenger never differ on God's decision.

I do agree...coz God and messenger same.. They can't differ.. Prophet may differ..  God placed a message on prophet.. Untill he passes the same message he can't be the messenger.. Once he delivered God's message is it he is a messenger.. Coz God take the responsibility whether his message is passed through his messenger as it is... until then God pushes the prophet... Prophet can go wrong not the messenger... If any prophet denied to do so... For example not deliver the message what God placed on him I don't think God would keep him as Prophet... He is not messenger who failed the message to deliver..

Fadiva

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 06:33:49 AM »
Peace,

Thank you Neptin and jkhan for the clarifications.

reel

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Re: Is it Really the Prophet in 33:37 ?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 11:57:02 AM »
It is admitted that the nabi married Zayd's ex wife in order to show the example.
From verse 37 we can understand this marriage was to put an end to the discomfort the believers feeled about the idea to marry an adopted son's wife. Maybe seen as immoral.

I also read criticism about it ( Muhammad inventing this in order to marry a woman he wanted...speculations), which disturbed me at that time.


I'm sorry but I have another question:

33:36 It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should thereafter have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

Do/Did Allah and his messenger decide matters together ? That idea is quite disturbing to me. Laws decided by Allah and his messenger (mutually decided) ?
I don't understand.

I think it is to assure people that messenger's decision is right inside Quran. But what doesn't seem to flow is that in that verse we get a steadfast man, but the next one says he hides things despite knowing it won't work since soon God would disclose them.

33:53 "O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. ......"

Take the above verse... As a prophet he should deliver this verse and as well implement... Coz it is relevant to him personal like Zaid's matter..

Do you think prophet mohamed would have implemented it?  Do you think on every occasion he would have told the people to leave after the meal.. But,  it doesn't mean he didn't follow the message... But certain messages are not easy to implement... It takes quite lot of thing from inside a person..

See the contrasting difference..  In Zaid's  case Mohamed didn't like it.. In the above case he likes but he is unable to implement it.. He is shy..
So what Mohamed told to Zaid just keep your wife is so personal and kindness and human nature...  But for sure they divorced.. Divorce would have taken place coz of much valid reason.. There is nothing Mohamed could do if it ends in divorce.. He would have tried to unite them.. But in vain...

Also note that even though God ordered in the verse Mohamed to marry her,  she should be willing to do so.. Cannot force her.. But God can force Mohamed coz he is bound to perform as a prophet the decree and command of God like all previous prophets..  So we have to deduce she agreed not only coz it was a message but she liked... She found Mohamed better than Zaid.. Isn't she?...

So to wind up... Simply we have to think that Mohamed was a human vulnerable for errors and human nature...

When he delivered messages his job is over.. But message itself is about him, he act as human... Like us.. Do we follow all the messages of Quran all of sudden.. How long it takes us to make up our mind... But imagine when all of a sudden a message comes and to marry someone who he might have treated like daughter... What else he would tell rather than what he told to Zaid.. Don't find fault in it... It's so natural... That's why God soothed him.. Fear me not society...

We shouldn't come to conclude like how he hid while being a prophet... He was a human.. And didn't hide it for life and didn't disobey forever.. Look at it in a positive angle...

But at the end of the day, 33:53 came through the Prophet.

It doesn't make sense that he would hide what God was supposed to disclose.


"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj