Author Topic: When were we dead as per 2:28?  (Read 3115 times)

Houriya

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2020, 08:45:24 AM »
7:172
And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

7:173
Nor can you say: "It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You destroy us for what the innovators did?"

7:174
It is such that We explain the revelations, perhaps they will return / repent.


46:27
And We destroyed the towns around you and We had dispatched the signs, perhaps they would return / repent.

26:208
And We have not destroyed any town except after having warners.

21:94
So whoever does good works and he is a believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it for him.

It was their last chance :

21:95
And it is forbidden for a town that We destroy, that they will not return!


6:158
Do they wait until the angels come to them, or your Lord comes, or certain signs come from your Lord? The Day certain signs come from your Lord, it will do no good for any soul to believe if it did not believe before, or it gained good through its belief. Say: "Wait, for we are waiting."

seekingtruth1111

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2020, 03:04:58 PM »
7:172
And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

7:173
Nor can you say: "It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You destroy us for what the innovators did?"

7:174
It is such that We explain the revelations, perhaps they will return / repent.


46:27
And We destroyed the towns around you and We had dispatched the signs, perhaps they would return / repent.

26:208
And We have not destroyed any town except after having warners.

21:94
So whoever does good works and he is a believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it for him.

It was their last chance :

21:95
And it is forbidden for a town that We destroy, that they will not return!


6:158
Do they wait until the angels come to them, or your Lord comes, or certain signs come from your Lord? The Day certain signs come from your Lord, it will do no good for any soul to believe if it did not believe before, or it gained good through its belief. Say: "Wait, for we are waiting."

Peace Houriya

So disbelievers will be given two chances on this earth?

When a baby is born it may be getting 2nd chance or second life?

If that is the case then after the second death when they are resurrected for the day of judgement that will be 3rd life?

Sorry I am not getting your point here.

jkhan

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2020, 07:32:03 PM »
Peace Houriya

So disbelievers will be given two chances on this earth?

When a baby is born it may be getting 2nd chance or second life?

If that is the case then after the second death when they are resurrected for the day of judgement that will be 3rd life?

Sorry I am not getting your point here.

Don't confuse brother...

After the second death of disbelievers, there is no more coming to this world... All will be resurrected...
Once resurrected and destined for hell it is not third life.. Hell is No life ...its suffering mere suffering a punishment and no freedom... No escape... But in real life they had freedom.. That's life... Two times life given and two times death fallen... After that only punishment...

When a baby is born second time it is second chance to the same soul but it is life after all..

imrankhawaja

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2020, 09:11:48 PM »
Look in to it i already mentioned it here with equation.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610350.msg419285#msg419285

Houriya

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 03:03:24 AM »
Peace,

Knowing that this is our second life and that we have already transgressed during our first life, it shocked me, my flesh bristled, at the same time, I am not surprised. Human beings are unjust and ignorant.

Don't confuse brother...

After the second death of disbelievers, there is no more coming to this world... All will be resurrected...
Once resurrected and destined for hell it is not third life.. Hell is No life ...its suffering mere suffering a punishment and no freedom... No escape... But in real life they had freedom.. That's life... Two times life given and two times death fallen... After that only punishment...

When a baby is born second time it is second chance to the same soul but it is life after all..

Peace

ade_cool

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 04:45:54 AM »
Salam all,

[2:21] O people, serve your Lord who has created you and those before you that you may be righteous.
[2:22] The One who has made the earth a resting place, and the sky a shelter, and He sent down from the sky water with which He brought out  fruits as a gift to you. So do not set up any equals with God while  you know.
[2:23] And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your  witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
[2:24] And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and rocks, it has been  prepared for the rejecters.
[2:25] And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them. Every  time they receive a provision of its fruit, they say: “This is what  we have been provisioned before,” and they are given its likeness.  And there they will have pure mates, and in it they will abide.
[2:26] God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they  know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters,  they say: “What does God intend with this example?” He strays  many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the  wicked.
[2:27] The ones who break the pledge to God after making its covenant, and they sever what God had ordered to be delivered, and they  make corruption on the earth; these are the losers.
[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless and He brought you to life? Then He makes you lifeless, then He brings you to life, then  to Him you will be returned.

...

[2:40] O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I had bestowed upon you, and fulfill your pledge to Me that I may fulfill My  pledge to you, and reverence Me alone.
[2:41] And believe in what I have sent down, affirming what is with you, and do not be the first to disbelieve in it! And do not purchase  with My revelations a cheap gain, and of Me you shall be aware.


The ones being addressed in 2:28 is An-Nas which started in 2:21. They are people in general who are being exposed to Kitab that God sent down. The logic employed when addressing them is that if they have doubt, then why they don't take the challenge etc. These An-Nas is being contrasted with Bani Israel which are addressed starting 2:40. Bani Israel is given Kitab (see 45:16), that is why the logic employed when addressing them is different, i.e. don't be the first to disbelieve, don't exchange for small gain, etc.

Now back to 2:28

[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless [perfect verb] and He brought you to life [perfect verb]? Then He makes you lifeless [imperfect verb], then He brings you to life [imperfect verb], then  to Him you will be returned [imperfect verb].

First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will die)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)


Wassalam,
Ade

seekingtruth1111

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 08:14:09 AM »
Don't confuse brother...

After the second death of disbelievers, there is no more coming to this world... All will be resurrected...
Once resurrected and destined for hell it is not third life.. Hell is No life ...its suffering mere suffering a punishment and no freedom... No escape... But in real life they had freedom.. That's life... Two times life given and two times death fallen... After that only punishment...

When a baby is born second time it is second chance to the same soul but it is life after all..

Peace jkhan

The question is when is the second life and second death if the first death is as follows?

37:58 "Are we then not going to die,"
37:59 "Except for our first death, and we will not be punished?"

44:34 These people now are saying:
44:35 "There is nothing but our first death; and we will never be resurrected!"

44:56 They do not taste death therein except for the first death, and He has spared them the retribution of hell.


seekingtruth1111

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 08:19:32 AM »


Now back to 2:28

[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless [perfect verb] and He brought you to life [perfect verb]? Then He makes you lifeless [imperfect verb], then He brings you to life [imperfect verb], then  to Him you will be returned [imperfect verb].

First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will die)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)


Wassalam,
Ade

Peace Ade

Then how do we explain 40:11 if the first Lifeless/dead state was not by causing death.

40:11 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"

ade_cool

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 09:21:08 AM »
Peace Ade

Then how do we explain 40:11 if the first Lifeless/dead state was not by causing death.

40:11 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"

Salam seekingtruth1111,

[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless [perfect verb] and He brought you to life [perfect verb]? Then He makes you lifeless [imperfect verb], then He brings you to life [imperfect verb], then  to Him you will be returned [imperfect verb].

Context: in this life
First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will be lifeless)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)

[40:11] They will say: “Our Lord, You have made us lifeless twice [perfect verb], and You have given us life twice [perfect verb]. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there  any way out of this state?”

Context: in the hereafter
lifeless twice => completed/done (when we were nothing + when we were lifeless after first life)
life twice => completed/done (first life + brought to life in hereafter)


Wassalam,
Ade

jkhan

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Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 09:11:26 PM »
Peace jkhan

The question is when is the second life and second death if the first death is as follows?

37:58 "Are we then not going to die,"
37:59 "Except for our first death, and we will not be punished?"

44:34 These people now are saying:
44:35 "There is nothing but our first death; and we will never be resurrected!"

44:56 They do not taste death therein except for the first death, and He has spared them the retribution of hell.

Peace brother ST111

Verses are absolutely manifest and no need confuse over it… That’s why God orders us to explore the book… with exploration we get certain knowledge of what we not in fact needed for our salvation… That’s for knowledge and satisfaction..
44:56 is addressed to those who live in Janna… Here God confirms they won’t taste Second death… First death of their entire life is the only death… Suppose if you are a believer accepted by God then you will definitely die one time on this earth and that is your first death and to have a death you need live life…So you experienced your death before you were resurrected and destined to live in Janna… You lived as human once that is your current life … before creation there is no life…. God confirms those in janna(true believers) only have one death and those in janna also confirms that they won’t die apart from their first death… Death is very clear according Quran.. Angels do come and take the soul and bring it to Lord.. Believers will only experience that only ONE TIME…

But those who ended as disbelievers on their first death after having life will have another life within this current world and die.. that’s incontrovertible… God is Most Merciful… Probably God shown mercy when they pleaded send us back that we will do righteous with what we left.. but it seems it has become a habit on every time they die…
Ponder the below verses..
23:99-100 “until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "My Lord, send me back, that I might do righteousness in that which I left behind." No! It is only a word he is saying; and behind them is a barrier until the Day they are resurrected.

No believer will ever ask the above from God when death falls to them, coz if they are true believers they will find how pleasant they will be treated by angels and by what angels talk to them at the time of death they will leave happily and not beg like above.. So above verses definitely pertaining to disbelievers… But this verse seems request of those disbelievers who are about to die second time for third life… God replies it is only a word he is saying… God knows he was given two lives and not reformed.. from that moment there will be a Barrier (Barzakh) to such until the day they are resurrected..

In verse 44:35 definitely they can’t accept the truth and adamant and denying that they will only die their current life being disbelievers and further deny the Resurrection (the final)… challenging if in case after first death there is another life then prove to us by bringing their ancestors back to life…they are in astray…total astray…

To Summarize…
Believers : Life + Death + Life (life of Janna) … No death.. but perish when earth and heaven perish.. to nothing
Disbelievers : Life+ Death + life + Death + Punishment (Jahanna..not living there and not dying) … but perish when earth and heavens perish or God’s will … to nothing..

Since God and the people of blessed Janna confirmed that They won’t taste the death apart from their first death, it is much evident that those who were given two lives and two deaths never enter Janna… Two lives and two deaths not taught them anything and never reformed..