Author Topic: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...  (Read 2845 times)

Jafar

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2020, 08:54:28 PM »
Bro, why so negative?

A very good question.

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As Muslims, we are supposed to support one another, not constantly bring about negativity like some battle of the ego.

You've found the answer yourselves.  :bravo:
Amazing.. question and answered within a thread.  by yourself :bravo:

Because your question has disturbed / threatened egos.
Egos are reactive, it scan the environment and when being triggered will act to 'neutralize' the threat. The goal of ego is 'survival', survival of anything that the ego has attached/focus/identify itself to. Thus 'winning', 'superiority' are it's tactical objective to ensure survival.

Yet nonetheless, you can also derived lesson for your benefit from your interactions with negatives.
A lesson to recognize your own ego (as it being triggered)  and how to unattached yourselves from your own ego.

Not an easy feat to achieve, it takes practices, thus be grateful to those who gives you 'negativity' as they're great trainers for your exercise.
It's the ego that actually view itself being separated from others.. thus also drive the need to be 'superior', 'winning' when compared to others.. Who are actually doing the comparing? It's also the ego...




TheUnseenLight

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2020, 09:32:33 PM »
if God can stop the injustice in the blink of an eye, why is God angry over it if God chose to bring it into existence and has predestined it and has power over all things? God wrote the script, He created it.

Think of a master painter who has full control to paint the most ugly or the most beautiful portraits. He paints an ugly image for the sake of carrying out a purpose, although he despises what he drew. Ultimately, Allah has predestined everything, the good and the bad, which serves the purpose of glorifying Him.

57:1
Glorifying God is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Noble, the Wise.

Sarah

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2020, 03:29:43 PM »
@jkhan,

'Even it doesn't befit.. I spoke with my understanding of Quran... But you speak with doubts Coz you have questions more than anyone... Some questions people have answered and you don't reply but you repeat.. That's pathetic... I don't won't pinpoint them what they are ...'

Yes it seems I have questions more than everybody else because I don't mind asking since I do not think of myself as a scholar or like I know more than everybody else. Just because you have less questions, doesn't make you better than me. And I know for a fact that you have unrealised questions too. How?Because there are 1000s of topics and sub-topics when it comes to the Qur'an and Islam and nobody including you will have all the answers. So you have many questions too, you just don't realise it. To pretend that you don't have many questions doesn't make you look smarter than everyone else, it makes you look arrogant.

Of course I don't reply to everyone simply because it would take forever. A person doesn't need to reply to every answer. That being said, I do appreciate the answers I get.

Anyway, I had enough of talking to you so let's just end this argument here because it's not nice and a waste of time.




😃👀✋

Cerberus

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2020, 05:25:15 AM »
Nothing wrong in asking questions in order to make sense of things. If your intention is honest and unbiased toward the things you love or wish for and unbiased against the things you dislike or do not wish for, and you're doing your best and using the tools God gave you to make sense of things and distinguish between right and wrong. How can you fear that you may be misguided ?

And how can anyone fear for others that they may misguide themselves ? Each is responsible of their life.

" God guides whom he wills" it's not arbitrary. God's willingness is not arbitrary. For God to will to guide someone what does that someone need to do ? Doesn't God have the best judgement, since God has the perfect understanding ?

Now back to the topic,
About God getting angry. I already gave my understanding of it. I think those who confidently say God gets angry should try to answer your question instead of running away

Jafar

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2020, 02:43:17 PM »
What constitute 'heaven' might be different to each perspective.

For some, a realm where there is NO chance of:
- Feel the delight of being superior over others
- Feel the delight of gaining control over others
- Feel the delight of being feared by spreading fear to others.
- Feel the delight of inflicting pain to others
- Feel the delight of taking from others
- Feel the delight of rage and aggressivity and finally got your revenge.

Is not heaven...

Ask a bully why did he (or she) bullies others?
The answer that you got is because it brings a delightful feelings for them, the feelings empower them bringing a sense of security, satisfaction and superiority to the one who bullies.

On this world you're exposed to all type of feelings of emotion in order for you to choose which one that suits you best.

Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.

The idea that it's exclusive to only certain 'social identity / religion' was being proposed to provide a sense of superiority to the specific 'social identity / religion'. A sense of superiority will give an emotional incentive (read: Faith) for the member of specific 'social identity / religion' to be loyal the group and also obey it's leader and doctrines. Although the doctrines sometimes doesn't make sense at all.

Imagine a life situation where you've spend an effort for something but it ends up that it's somebody else who received the reward / prize / fruits and not you. You can choose to:
A. Feeling cheated, treated unfair and be envious to those who received the rewards and seek out revenge.
B. Accept the events as it happened and be happy to others who received the rewards.

You will receive guidance on whatever option that you chose.

But if you think about it, option B is a much much easier option, there is no more effort required since you're accepting it. Option A requires a lot of effort, but for some it's a worthwhile effort.

The above is of course a simplified version and there are more complex variance happening in this world which makes it more interesting.

jkhan

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2020, 07:57:57 PM »

Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.

The idea that it's exclusive to only certain 'social identity / religion' was being proposed to provide a sense of superiority to the specific 'social identity / religion'. A sense of superiority will give an emotional incentive (read: Faith) for the member of specific 'social identity / religion' to be loyal the group and also obey it's leader and doctrines. Although the doctrines sometimes doesn't make sense at all.


Peace Jafer...

Why do you say what you don't know.. 
If you don't believe in Quran and it's Author.. Then fine but why keep reiterating to its believers which is not in their book literally or indirectly...

If you are still arguing / presenting within Quran your opinion then why you claim Janna is not a place... Did Quran claim that Janna is not a place?
What's your purpose? Is it your ego that everyone has chosen a wrong path so you should advice them... Where is your proof for that...

No need any answer for me... Just tell me if Janna / paradise is not a physical place then why God need to DESTROY  this CURRENT WORLD and RECREATE ANOTHER EARTH and HEAVENS ?
I can list more than 50 points to say that jannah is a physical place within Quran ....  But I hope above is more than enough...
If you can't answer within Quran, pls don't.. I am not here to listen to your philosophy...
Coz this is quran only site in which all can give their opinion... But this website front page says this site is for those who is willing to allow God into their life.. And not for those who uses it as weapon to negate God and still not argue within Quran but his own philosophy...

If you still claim so,  then PROVE WITHIN QURAN that Janna is NOT physical place,  before letting others YES it is

**Always remember that I am not against you personally, I am only supporting quran here.. I only want to show quran is not supporting what certain people are claiming.. If they say it supports then debate.. Personal attacks will not win the truth of Quran... Whether you understand it not is irrelevant.. I will continue as long as God teaches me and allow me..

Jafar

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2020, 09:41:48 PM »
I reiterate once more:

Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.

It's a 'realm' where it suits one state of mind / consciousness and it's not exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion".

It's an ancient debate, there's a record of similar debate happening around 2000 years ago.

When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

And 2500 years ago in China one wrote:

The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao.
That is what gives her her radiance.

The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn’t cling to ideas.

The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.

Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see.


As for this forum, it (at least claimed) that it's "God Alone".

How one interpret "God Alone" varied..
Those with exclusivity / separation view of thinking interpret it differently than those with unity view of thinking. But nonetheless both are valid view, everyone need an exposure to both. As that is the objective of this (virtual) world.

jkhan

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2020, 10:20:52 PM »
I reiterate once more:

Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.

It's a 'realm' where it suits one state of mind / consciousness and it's not exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion".

It's an ancient debate, there's a record of similar debate happening around 2000 years ago.

When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

And 2500 years ago in China one wrote:

The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao.
That is what gives her her radiance.

The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn’t cling to ideas.

The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.

Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see.


As for this forum, it (at least claimed) that it's "God Alone".

How one interpret "God Alone" varied..
Those with exclusivity / separation view of thinking interpret it differently than those with unity view of thinking. But nonetheless both are valid view, everyone need an exposure to both. As that is the objective of this (virtual) world.

Once again it is merely your belief...so you can proudly talk of... But, Quran never supports your stance.. Quran is our salvation... That's our belief... Not only you,  but anyone who is denier of Quran or who accepts quran, but still say Janna is NOT a physical place,  is most welcome to bring your considerable support within Quran to substantiate ..

Any support outside of Quran is worthless for those who rely only Quran which is pointing all books' flaws and infusion.. That's our belief.. Coz QURAN says it stands as overseer of all.. It's the final of such books..

I am not here to argue about other belief since i have found a way within Quran...   If they find their belief is overwhelming, then let them stick to it.. But useless penetrating to others belief and claim what is not in our book..

As you claim, If our doctrines doesn't makes sense at all keep away... No compulsion in the system of God..

You failed to bring a single verse to support that Janna is Not physical... But bringing other evidence... But our books glaring verses speaks in support of it with manifest verses...

So your belief and our belief contradicts.. So be satisfied with what you found.. But don't claim that as it is the truth while others speak of another truth... Which truth is actually truth will be known as the day of ressurection...

Jafar

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2020, 11:00:35 PM »
Any support outside of Quran is worthless for those who rely only Quran which is pointing all books' flaws and infusion.. That's our belief.. Coz QURAN says it stands as overseer of all.. It's the final of such books..

I am not here to argue about other belief since i have found a way within Quran...   If they find their belief is overwhelming, then let them stick to it.. But useless penetrating to others belief and claim what is not in our book..

Our book....
Can you elaborate on why it has become your book?

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As you claim, If our doctrines doesn't makes sense at all keep away... No compulsion in the system of God..

I actually do not recommend to 'keep away' on things which doesn't make sense.
But to study it, and be exposed to it... dig out the 'why' aspect.

That's the objective on this world, to be exposed to all and choose which one suits you best.

And I actually know very well about this thing you called "Our Doctrines" because I used to be an ardent supporter of it..  :rotfl:

After being exposed to other point of views and also understand the driver / the why aspect.
I decided that's not suitable for me.

Agree on what you said there is no compulsion at all, choose which suits your soul best.

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You failed to bring a single verse to support that Janna is Not physical... But bringing other evidence... But our books glaring verses speaks in support of it with manifest verses...

I'm glad that you find comfort in "Our books glaring verses"..

But again you seem to always skipped my important point there:
I reiterate again:

Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.

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So your belief and our belief contradicts.. So be satisfied with what you found.. But don't claim that as it is the truth while others speak of another truth... Which truth is actually truth will be known as the day of ressurection...

It can easily be known now actually....
Yet "truth" is subjective just like heaven and hell is subjective.

A realm where there's no chance of feeling the delight of being superior, winning, control, domination might not suitable for some yet suitable for others.

Everyone shall receive what they deserves..

God is after all the ultimate provider for all...

jkhan

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Re: Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2020, 11:37:05 PM »
Our book....
Can you elaborate on why it has become your book?


The word OUR comes with acceptance of something (be it positive or negative)

Our book coz that's what I take for my salvation... While those who don't take it cannot claim so while they have their significant book in which they rely on..

That's why our prophet was ordered tell... " Say O! Disbelievers...  I won't serve what you serve... And further ... To You Your Deen (system) and to Me My Deen.. "

What is our System? Our book Quran... Anyone call our book if he accepts it...

So dear..don't pinpoint things which you can't prove within Quran....  I only claim quran to negate what you say agaisnt Quran.. That's all... Other than that you may be a wonderful person which I have no idea... God knows.. I bring to table which I feel wrong according explanation of Quran of my knowledge... If claimed so.. Then be professional debate and substantiate your claim within Quran.. ..

Anything away from Quran don't expect me to reply..
Be happy with your Deen...  No objection..