Author Topic: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman  (Read 495 times)

jkhan

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 922
  • Gender: Male
Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« on: November 23, 2019, 01:54:28 AM »

34:14 "And when We decreed for Solomon death, nothing indicated to the jinn his death except a creature of the earth eating his staff. But when he fell, it became clear to the jinn that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in humiliating punishment."

What could be the reason not to disclose the death of Sulaiman to his Jinns who were working for him?
It takes quite a bit of time for those creatures to gnaw a stick which is used for support by human .. Till then why no-one worried about Sulaiman.. Where was he? Why his family members not talked to him? Or if he was a king even in his last days why no-one approached?
Further, God reiterating in Quran that prophets are human like us.. So how and why no body felt that he is dead.. Where was the dead body smell?
Why God let Sulaiman to be in such situations rather than letting know that he is dead and to do funeral?
What could be it? What lesson or hidden secret we learn by his extraordinary death which no-one knew at lest jinn?
Why delayed untill earthly creature gnawing his stick. While earthly creatures not touched Sulaiman's dead body or his clothes... Isn't this exceptional?
Has someone researched this peculiar situation... Would you pls present your understanding or any previous threads thoroughly discussed


good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4920
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2019, 06:39:11 AM »
Peace jkhan.

Before I attempt to give you my view, I want to clarify that I have tried to find out about this and many other verses about Solomon and the Jinns and there may be other information out there that I have not come across that gives another angle/ side of the story.
Your questions are attemted below:

What could be the reason not to disclose the death of Sulaiman to his Jinns who were working for him?
It depends on how long was Soloman dead before it was discovered. There is no reason except that no one knew straight away. It is always difficult to know someone is dead or just resting. The verse does not mention the length  of time Soloman was dead before it was discovered./Jinns were made aware.
It takes quite a bit of time for those creatures to gnaw a stick which is used for support by human .. Till then why no-one worried about
Assuming the creature is a small insect ? But a creature of the earth could be an animal/?This will take seconds to snatch the staff and try to chew at it?

Sulaiman.. Where was he? Why his family members not talked to him? Or if he was a king even in his last days why no-one approached?
He was overseeing a group of workers doing a job. The shift  of few hours, was not finished, why would anyone be concerned?  Even if the job was away for few days why the concern?
Further, God reiterating in Quran that prophets are human like us.. So how and why no body felt that he is dead.. Where was the dead body smell?
Again the assumption here is the length of time before the death was noticed! One could be dead for some time ,even few days before the situation gets serious.
Why God let Sulaiman to be in such situations rather than letting know that he is dead and to do funeral?
GOD does the natural thing  family members/others,certify the death and act on what follows. Few hours or even few days between the two is possible. There are many stories where people died on their job or at home and were not discovered/realised until after few hours/days.
 
What could be it? What lesson or hidden secret we learn by his extraordinary death which no-one knew at lest jinn?
Just that nonbody ,not even Jinns can have instant knowledge of someone dying. We cannot even know what is sleep . GOD is saying that Jinns like us have a limited knowledge.
Why delayed untill earthly creature gnawing his stick. While earthly creatures not touched Sulaiman's dead body or his clothes... Isn't this exceptional?
Not if the time factor is small under different or exceptional circumstances

Has someone researched this peculiar situation... Would you pls present your understanding or any previous threads thoroughly discussed
Like I said ,this was my view.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jkhan

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 922
  • Gender: Male
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2019, 08:00:26 PM »
Peace GL...

Would you pls give the assumed earthly creature that would gnaw a stick within few hours discarding seeing a human holding it?

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4920
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 04:03:23 AM »
Again brother, the verse says eating-Min- from the stick.  For example, I see many dogs eating from a stick. i.e shewing it and spitting it.
Or does the verse says it ate all the stick?
Think about the aim of the verse? "An Law Kanu Yaalamuna Al Ghaib..."  Jinns do not have the knowledge of "Al Ghaib". They did not realise Soloman was dead until the corpse fell on the floor when the stickn was taken away propping it,r even though it was dead for a while.
 
You, me Jinns do not need to toil/work for others/...if we knew Al Ghaib. We will  make a fortune from that knowledge alone!
GOD bless you.
Peace..
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jkhan

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 922
  • Gender: Male
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 04:16:17 AM »
Peace....
So you say dog took the stick of Sulaiman to eat... So he fell while dog took the stick and not while it was eaten.   
 :nope:

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4920
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2019, 04:32:54 AM »
Peace jkhan.

I am saying an animal was the cause of the stick to move away from propping the corpse. This makes sense to me in the context of the verse .
I do not know which animal. It could be any. All attempts at identifying the animal/creature are assumptions because the verse has not elaborated.

Putting the whole context together gives me this:
Solomon was dead a while(How long will also be an assumption). His staff/stick was propping him. Jinns working for him did not realise until the corpse fell on the floor. I.e Jinns like us have limited knowledge and do not know "Al Ghaib" . Knowing the exact second someone dies is the knowledge of Al Ghaib. We cannot know without checking that someone is dead..
If Jibnns knew "Al Ghaib" they would have known the second Solomon dead.
That is the understanding I get from it. My view like I said.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jkhan

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 922
  • Gender: Male
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2019, 10:11:44 PM »
Peace jkhan.

I am saying an animal was the cause of the stick to move away from propping the corpse. This makes sense to me in the context of the verse .
I do not know which animal. It could be any. All attempts at identifying the animal/creature are assumptions because the verse has not elaborated.

Putting the whole context together gives me this:
Solomon was dead a while(How long will also be an assumption). His staff/stick was propping him. Jinns working for him did not realise until the corpse fell on the floor. I.e Jinns like us have limited knowledge and do not know "Al Ghaib" . Knowing the exact second someone dies is the knowledge of Al Ghaib. We cannot know without checking that someone is dead..
If Jibnns knew "Al Ghaib" they would have known the second Solomon dead.
That is the understanding I get from it. My view like I said.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I understand you brother....
But the verse seems like, Sulaiman fell down while the creature was eating the staff... then he fell down and then only Jinn came to know observing it? isn't it? It doesn't seems like with flow of the verse that any creature of the earth snatched away the staff so he fell down and then it was eating the staff...

ibn_a

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 177
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 01:22:13 AM »
Salaam,



34:14 "And when We decreed for Solomon death, nothing indicated to the jinn his death except a creature of the earth eating his staff. But when he fell, it became clear to the jinn that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in humiliating punishment."

What could be the reason not to disclose the death of Sulaiman to his Jinns who were working for him?
It takes quite a bit of time for those creatures to gnaw a stick which is used for support by human .. Till then why no-one worried about Sulaiman.. Where was he? Why his family members not talked to him? Or if he was a king even in his last days why no-one approached?
Further, God reiterating in Quran that prophets are human like us.. So how and why no body felt that he is dead.. Where was the dead body smell?
Why God let Sulaiman to be in such situations rather than letting know that he is dead and to do funeral?
What could be it? What lesson or hidden secret we learn by his extraordinary death which no-one knew at lest jinn?
Why delayed untill earthly creature gnawing his stick. While earthly creatures not touched Sulaiman's dead body or his clothes... Isn't this exceptional?
Has someone researched this peculiar situation... Would you pls present your understanding or any previous threads thoroughly discussed

Peace jkhan,


This might be an interesting ( partial ) explanation:

Amatul Rahman Omar:

34:14 And when We ordained death for him (- Solomon) the people only came to know of his death through a (worthless) creature of earth (- Solomon's son) that was eating away his (father's) staff (- ruling power and glory). So when it fell down the jinn realized then plainly that had they known the secret (of the hollowness of the kingdom) they would have never remained in (a state of) humiliating torment.

------



Shabbir Ahmed:

34:14 When We decreed death for him (Solomon), nothing showed his death to the Wild Tribes until a creature of the earth ate away the strength he had mustered. When the power base fell, the Wild Tribes rebelled regretting that they should have done it sooner only if they knew the new unjust King. (The 'creature of the earth' was the highly incompetent son Rehoboam, and successor of Solomon 38:34. Historically, ten of the Israelite Tribes also broke away from the Kingdom at that point).

-------

https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/34/14/default.htm



والله اعلم
Allah knows best.


ibn_a

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 177
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #8 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »
Salaam,


34:14 (part of verse 14)
Then when We decreed for him (Solomon) the death, nothing showed / indicated to them his death,  except dabbatu l-arḍi takulu minsa-atahu ....

Perhaps that for some reason those in command were hiding Solomon's death, which could be why they didn't know about his death and not because they could not perceive that he was dead because he was leaning on / (supported by)  his staff.

them, they = people and those described as jinn.
note: I think that the jinn here, are not invisible entities  but humans, of course the question is why they are called jinn?




والله اعلم
Allah knows best.



jkhan

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 922
  • Gender: Male
Re: Peculiar Death of Sulaiman
« Reply #9 on: Today at 04:29:55 AM »
Salaam,


34:14 (part of verse 14)
Then when We decreed for him (Solomon) the death, nothing showed / indicated to them his death,  except dabbatu l-arḍi takulu minsa-atahu ....

Perhaps that for some reason those in command were hiding Solomon's death, which could be why they didn't know about his death and not because they could not perceive that he was dead because he was leaning on / (supported by)  his staff.

them, they = people and those described as jinn.
note: I think that the jinn here, are not invisible entities  but humans, of course the question is why they are called jinn?




والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Peace ibn...
What's wrong calling as "them" for Jinn.. Is their any specific reason from your end not to call jinn as them... I think something has gone wrong in your assumptions... Better you read the chapter 72 to recollect... Even calling anything as Them or You no harm.. Didn't the she ant call as 'You' to it's fellow ants.. Human is not jinn in my understanding... Jin is a physical creation... But in human Satan is there coz Satan is not creation but status..

Further...  Hiding the death of a person while visible to others is pointless... Point to ponder is.. God claims NOTHING INDICATED THE DEATH... So generally when one dies the indications are there,  very basics of them.. No need to elaborate.. So non of those indications were exposed.. That can only be possible if God intentionally not allow Sulaiman's dead body to a different state.. I mean to position which cannot be compared with normal death of a person... But why did God do that? If nothing indicated a death of a person then not only jinn but no one would know he was dead.. But the first to notice his death was jinn.. Why it was delayed? Why this verse is in Quran.. What we can learn?   That's important.. Why his death was peculiar without giving any indication of a dead body..