Author Topic: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42  (Read 1418 times)

Houriya

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Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« on: November 21, 2019, 08:00:51 AM »
Peace,

How do you understand these 2 verses :

38:41    And recall Our servant Job, when he called upon his Lord: "The devil / satan has afflicted me with an illness and pain."

38:42    "Rapidly move with your foot, here is a cold spring to wash with and to drink."

Thanks for your input.

Wakas

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2019, 08:50:48 AM »
peace,

You may find the following helpful: http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part1

(best read on above site, but copied here also)

14)
Wa khuth bi yadika dighthan fa idribbihi wala tahnath = And take with your hand a bundle, then strike with it, and do not break your oath
[38:44]

According to traditonal interpretations 38:44 was a symbolic strike by Job/Ayyub (upon his wife) with blades of grass, meaning a light/negligible strike was used.

M. Asad's note
In the words of the Bible (The Book of Job ii, 9), at the time of his seemingly hopeless suffering Job's wife reproached her husband for persevering in his faith: "Dost thou still retain thine integrity? Curse God, and die." According to the classical Qur'an-commentators, Job swore that, if God would restore him to health, he would punish her blasphemy with a hundred stripes. But when he did recover, he bitterly regretted his hasty oath, for he realized that his wife's "blasphemy" had been an outcome of her love and pity for him; and thereupon he was told in a revelation that he could fulfill his vow in a symbolic manner by striking her once with "a bunch of grass containing a hundred blades or more". (Cf. 5:89 - "God will not take you to task for oaths which you may have uttered without thought.")

Ibn Kathir (1301-1372 CE)
Reference: online article taken from this book
In this version, it is implied Job promises to strike his wife a hundred stripes simply for her asking why he doesn't call upon God to remove his affliction. This seems a natural question to ask and at most, perhaps shows lack of steadfastness/patience by her, as note, she does not disbelieve in God, and even acknowledges only God can remove the affliction. Interestingly, Job effectively asks this very thing in 21:83. Also, Job is described as a man of patience/sabr, but seemingly had no patience for his wife in this example. It should be noted that punishment for this type of alleged offence by his wife is nowhere to be found in The Quran, and it could be argued this would actually go against its principles. Lastly, when Job's family is returned to him it is described as a mercy in 21:84 and 38:43, i.e. implying it is a positive, making it even less likely that his wife played a negative role in his situation.

Tafsir Al-Qurtubi (1214-1273 CE)
Reference: Vol. 15, p. 212 of this book
In this version, it is said during the ailment of Job, his wife used to beg for him and Satan told her a word of disbelief to say and she told her husband Job, so he became angry with her and took an oath to strike her one hundred lashes, so God ordered Job to fulfil his oath by striking her with the bundle of thin grass.

Tafsir Al-Jalalayn (authors: 1459 & 1505 CE)
Reference: altafsir.com
In this version, it contradicts the above two accounts, and says it was when she was late in coming to him once. This seems an overly harsh punishment to administer for such an incident, and does not befit the character of Job as described in The Quran.

Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas (authors: 687 & 1414 CE)
Reference: altafsir.com
In this version, it says it was because she said something that displeased God, hence the punishment. It should be noted strongly, that punishment for allegedly saying something that displeases God is completely unheard of in The Quran, even though there are many examples in it of people ridiculing the prophets, God and The Quran. Therefore, this seems highly unlikely.

It should be noted that NONE of the above contradicting authors cite any Traditional narrations/ahadith to give weight to their interpretations. This could be because no such Traditional narrations/ahadith exist for this verse, and if they do not, then it is unclear where exactly these stories originated from. It is possible they were an embellishment or simply made up to explain the verse. This can be further confirmed by the Biblical account where there is no mention of this incident. It should also be noted that even though The Quran mentions Job briefly (4:163, 6:84, 21:83, 38:41-44), some aspects of his story are not mentioned in the Biblical version and vice versa.

The traditional interpretation is also problematic for another significant reason: if true, it would be the only example of an oath being expiated by way of symbolic gesture in The Quran. In 5:89 and 2:224-225 it clearly states that God will not hold us to account for thoughtless words in our oaths, or those not intended by the heart. And provides us ways to redeem if we break earnest/sincere oaths, e.g. by charity, abstinence/fasting.
Some commentators have used the traditional story of Job to rationalise the interpretation of "beat lightly" in 4:34 even though the circumstances are entirely different.

So, is there an alternative translation and understanding of 38:44? Since DRB and "dighthan (~bundle/handful)" have multiple meanings, there are several possibilities according to Classical Arabic dictionaries, however, upon closer examination of the story of Job in The Quran, the most probable answer is actually contained therein:

And Job when he called unto his Lord: "I have been afflicted with harm, and you are the most merciful of the merciful." [21:83]
So We responded to him, and We removed what was with him of the harm, and We brought him his family and like thereof with them as a mercy from Us and a reminder to those who serve. [21:84]

And recall Our servant Job, when he called upon his Lord: "The serpent/cobra* has afflicted/touched me with distress/difficulty and suffering/punishment." [38:41]
"Strike with your foot, this is a cool spring to wash with and drink." [38:42]
And We granted his family to him and like thereof with them as a mercy from Us; and a reminder for those who possess intelligence. [38:43]
"And take with your hand a handful, then put forth / fling with it**, and do not incline towards falsehood***". We found him patient. What an excellent servant! Indeed, he was oft returning. [38:44]
*Arabic: shaytan, root: Shiin-Tay-Nun, English: satan.
** Arabic: bihi (with it). "hi" refers to a masculine and the closest preceding masculine is the cool spring. Interestingly, "Dighthan" can also mean "wash without cleansing" as well as "handful", thus likely refers to rubbing/washing with the spring water. 38:44 is connected to previous context by "waw/and" and likely refers to the washing mentioned in 38:42, giving a perfect self-contained explanation. Also possible, but lesser likely, is that DRB could also mean "fashion or put a cover", i.e. a dressing or pressure bandage, with a handful of something.
***When researching the word "tahnath" (Root: Ha-Nun-Thaa) in Classical Arabic dictionaries, as this form of the word is only used once in The Quran, a common meaning was "incline towards falsehood", "say what is untrue", hence Maulana Ali's rendering for example: "And take in thy hand few worldly goods and earn goodness (i.e. traffic) therewith and incline not to falsehood".

"shaytan" is not often translated as serpent/cobra, but it is a well known Classical Arabic meaning. In the entire Quran, there are 88 occurrences of shaytan (loosely translated as 'opposing force' be it from oneself or elsewhere), but only two occurrences in which shaytan is the one doing the afflicting/touching (Root: Miim-Siin-Siin), and they are 38:41 and 2:275. In both occurrences, the meaning of shaytan strongly points to serpent/cobra:

Those who consume usury, they do not stand but as one might stand whom the serpent/cobra confounded* from its touch. That is because they have said: "Trade is the same as usury." While God has made trade lawful, and He has forbidden usury. Whoever has received understanding from His Lord and ceases, then he will be forgiven for what was before this and his case will be with God. But whoever returns, then they are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally. [2:275]

i.e. their footing/position/mentality/reasoning is weak, in disorder, corrupted, they cannot think/speak sensibly etc.
*root: Kha-Ba-Tay, also has a meaning of "touch with a hurt so as to corrupt/disorder and render one insane".

Further, 38:41 is the only occurrence where shaytan is the cause of either distress/difficulty (Nun-Sad-Ba) and/or suffering/punishment (Ayn-Thal-Ba), implying this is a unique usage. If we also couple this with knowledge of the usual methodology applied by shaytan which is false promises, deceit, temptation, delusion etc we can see that 38:41 and 2:275 are different, i.e. shaytan is applying a different methodology here, so the obvious question is to ask why? The evidence points to because in these two occurrences it means serpent/cobra. The Quran also uses this meaning for shaytan in 37:64-65 ("It is a tree that grows in the midst of Hell. Its sheaths are like the heads of serpents/cobras").

However, the strongest evidence is the perfect sense it makes within the context of 38:41-44, and what Job was asked to do, all of which are commonly recommended after a snake bite:

1) wash - i.e. the wound and/or oneself, which helps calm oneself, lessen risk of infection and possibly reduce any symptoms of fever.
2) drink water - this may help slow down heart rate, rehydrate from exhaustion or lost fluids, help calm oneself, and possibly increase rate of venom washout from the body.
3) wash the wound with handfuls of water, or apply a pressure bandage to prevent venom spread or dressing to prevent infection.
4) do not incline towards falsehood - a snakebite victim may often become delusional or not think clearly afterwards, hence this advice. This is also shown by 2:275.

However, the last point may also mean "do not fail in your oath/duty" after recovered, because Job was likely travelling in the land when this happened to him, probably spreading God's message, thus God is effectively telling him to not be deterred from continuing in this once recovered.
Also, the words "patient" and "oft-returning" at the end of the verse do suggest a recovery period, and are thus appropriate for the context of a snakebite.

Another interesting discovery is that even in the story of Job in The Bible, "satan" is referenced as inflicting a physical harm, Chapter 2:7 " So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot even unto his crown." After this part, his friends came to him, and implies he was in pain/grief and in a recovery period and did not speak (perhaps on purpose, i.e. "do not incline towards falsehood"), after which he showed signs of despair, like giving up, but eventually his condition was restored, and became blessed again. Quite often, The Quran corrects myths, the story of Job is perhaps just another example.

To conclude, the understanding presented here for the story of Job fits the grammar, the Arabic, Classical Arabic meanings, logic, cross-referencing and is a self-contained explanation.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Houriya

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2019, 12:51:13 PM »
Thank you very much brother wakas.

If we consider that satan
/ devil, all that is hidden from the human being like the thoughts / the ego / or the permanent mental noise that can be source of suffering, without the historical context assigned to these verses, how can we use the job story in our life ?
Does it makes sens?

Mazhar

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 02:30:40 PM »
Cobra finds mention in Grand Qur’ān


وَٱذْكُرْ عَبْدَنَآ أَيُّوبَ إِذْ نَادَىٰ رَبَّهُۥٓ

Moreover, you the Messenger [Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] mention Our Sincere Allegiant, Ayub [alai'his'slaam]. Mention this episode when he called upon his Sustainer Lord, saying —

أَنِّـى مَسَّنِىَ ٱلشَّيْطَٟنُ بِنُصْبٛ وَعَذَابٛ .38:41٤١

"It is a fact that I am in pain, (desert) Cobra has bitten me causing fatigue and pain". [38:41]

ٱرْكُضْ بِرِجْلِكَۖ

Allah the Exalted responded, advising, "You prod the ground with your heel/ foot. [he did it water came up] —

هَـٰذَا مُغْتَسَلُۢ بَارِدٚ وَشَرَابٚ .38:42٤٢

This is cleanser/cleansing location [to wash the wound to remove away venom]. It gives cooling-soothing effect [pain reducing therapy]. It is also drinkable". [38:42]

وَوَهَبْنَا لَهُۥٓ أَهْلَهُۥ وَمِثْلَـهُـم مَّعَهُـمْ رَحْـمَةٙ مِّنَّا

-- And [saving him from life threatening incident] Our Majesty gave him-let him meet his family, and others like of family with them, for showing the mercy from Our Grace [to all of them].

وَذِكْرَىٰ لِأُو۟لِـى ٱلۡأَلْبَٟبِ .38:43٤٣

And to make mention of this episode as a piece of advice for men of wisdom who look into matters and conduct objectively without overlapping it with emotions/ prejudices/ whims/ conjectural fascinating myths --. [38:43]

وَخُذْ بِيَدِكَ ضِغْثٙا فَٱضْـرِب بِّهِۦ وَلَا تَحْنَثْۗ

[reverting from parenthetic to cobra bite treatment suggested] "And take hold with your hand palm curved as bucket a handful of cleansing cool water, thereby strike exposing-separating the bite-venom with it (cool cleansing water). Mind it, you should not desist-deviate this advice in quickly doing it".

إِنَّا وَجَدْنَٟهُ صَابِرٙاۚ

It is a fact that We had found him coolly perseverant.


نِّعْمَ ٱلْعَبْدُۖ

What a remarkable sincere allegiant/subject was he!

إِنَّهُۥٓ أَوَّابٚ .38:44٤٤

Certainly he was maintainer of sincere righteous orientation towards Allah the Exalted. [38:44]

Detailed analys

Detailed analysis:38:41-44

Houriya

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2019, 03:27:25 PM »
Thank you brother Mazhar.

If it's a snake or cobra, the word thu3ban exists in the story of Moses.

In the quran, we read that satan exists among humans and djinn.
Bite in arabic is عضة.


Mazhar

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 04:33:43 PM »
Thank you brother Mazhar.

If it's a snake or cobra, the word thu3ban exists in the story of Moses.

In the quran, we read that satan exists among humans and djinn.
Bite in arabic is عضة.

That is right that exact word for bite is that. But Allah swt has translated verbatim in Arabic what he had said. The word used Cobra has struck/afflicted/harmed me, What was suggested to him is washing the wound, therefore, I used 'bite'. The other type of harm is when cobra sprays poison from  a distance that effect eyes.

Cobra or serpent

It is clarified in the link given in earlier post.

إِنَّـهَا شَجَرَةٚ تَخْرُجُ فِـىٓ أَصْلِ ٱلْجَحِـيـمِ .37:64٦٤

It is a fact that it (Az-Zaquem) is a female tree. It emerges in the bottom of Hell-Prison. [37:64]

طَلْعُهَا كَأَنَّهُۥ رُءُوسُ ٱلشَّيَٟطِيـنِ .37:65٦٥

The fruit bearing Spathe of her [feminine tree] exemplifies alike if it were the heads/hoods of Cobras —. [37:65]

Exemplification of an unseen or unknown object is done to let the reader or listener perceive it by mentioning its similarity with some object that is already in his perception. The exemplification is never of two objects both of which are not within the perception of the listener or reader.







Houriya

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 11:01:01 PM »
Can we currently treat a venomous bite with cold water?

Satan is created from fire, we are created from clay. The image of the tree in hell is perfect.

Mazhar

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 12:22:41 AM »
Can we currently treat a venomous bite with cold water?

Satan is created from fire, we are created from clay. The image of the tree in hell is perfect.

Wash; pain reliever. First aid sort of thing in some remote place, may be also because of iodine content.

Wakas

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2019, 05:50:13 AM »
Thank you very much brother wakas.

If we consider that satan
/ devil, all that is hidden from the human being like the thoughts / the ego / or the permanent mental noise that can be source of suffering, without the historical context assigned to these verses, how can we use the job story in our life ?
Does it makes sens?

Please ponder over the following point made:
Quote
"shaytan" is not often translated as serpent/cobra, but it is a well known Classical Arabic meaning. In the entire Quran, there are 88 occurrences of shaytan (loosely translated as 'opposing force' be it from oneself or elsewhere), but only two occurrences in which shaytan is the one doing the afflicting/touching (Root: Miim-Siin-Siin), and they are 38:41 and 2:275. In both occurrences, the meaning of shaytan strongly points to serpent/cobra:

We can easily apply the lessons from the story of Job in our life. For example if we are in a remote location and bitten by a snake we can do the things recommended, we can take the lesson of patience in adversity and being mindful of God and strive to be of those oft-returning to Him.



All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Houriya

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Re: Satan's affliction in ayat 38:41-42
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2019, 08:44:54 AM »
  The afflicting/touching/ massaniya (Root: Miim-Siin-Siin) is used in other verses :

7:188    Say: "I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me / [massaniya alsoo-o. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe."

15:54    He said: "What good news can you bring me when old age has come upon me / massaniya alkibaru ? Is that your good news?"

21:83    And Job when he called his Lord: I have been afflicted with harm / massaniya alddurru, and You are the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!"

 Agree nusbin / ilness / bite, harm, old age touch us physically.

Please ponder over the following point made:
We can easily apply the lessons from the story of Job in our life. For example if we are in a remote location and bitten by a snake we can do the things recommended, we can take the lesson of patience in adversity and being mindful of God and strive to be of those oft-returning to Him.

Agree.

2:45    And seek help through patience and through the Connection. It is a difficult thing / great (lakabeeratun), but not so for / (only) upon the humble.

There is another possible application, I will share it later if God willing.

26:78    "The One who has created me, He will guide me."
26:79    "And He is the One who feeds me and gives me to drink."
26:80    "And if I am sick, He is the One who cures me."