Author Topic: Stuck on these verses clarification  (Read 1223 times)

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2019, 09:05:25 PM »
Peace everyone....

2:266 “Would one of you like to have a garden(JANNA-singular feminine) of palm trees and grapevines underneath (Thahthi-HA..singular feminine) which rivers flow in which (Fee-HA) he has from every fruit? But he is afflicted with old age and has weak offspring, and falls on it (Fa-Asaba-HA ..singular feminine) by a whirlwind containing fire and is burned. Thus does Allah make clear to you [His] verses that you might give thought.”

2:25 “And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens (JANNAA-plural feminine) beneath which (Thahthi-HA ..singular feminine) rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit from it (Min-HA .. singular feminine), they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein (Fee-HA .. Feminine singular) purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.”

To be clear let’s separate the word ‘HA’ … this word ‘HA’ should be always Feminine Singular unless and otherwise attached with word ‘FEE’ only… is that what is Arabic grammar says… it seems like ‘Fee-Hi’ has no issue  and it looks like always masculine and singular… may be and may not be right my assumption.. pls clarify…

But let’s concentrate with ‘Fee-HA’ which is the concern in 20:40..…. This word is generally or predominantly used to denote Singular feminine  in quran but still used for plural feminine (mostly to Janna)…

But ‘HA’ in its own is only feminine.. right? And when joined to other words other than ‘FEE’ this ‘HA’ it should mean singular feminine … is that correct way of understanding? Or when attached to other words also same rule of FEE-HA applies.. I don’t think so…since Mazhar’s total concern was on Fee-HA..

If above pattern is right…Then the verse 2:25 and 2:266 has entirely different character..
In 2:266 object is GARDEN (singular feminine) ..so, rightly used to denote the garden by preposition ‘HA’ (singular fem.) in words like ‘Thahthi-HA’  or ‘ Asaaba-HA’ … As well the joining of ‘FEE-HA’ here meant singular feminine… No issues at all according to gramar… isn’t it?
In 2:25  Object is GARDENS (Plural feminine) .. so, why denote it with preposition ‘HA’ (singular) such as ‘Thahthi-HA or Min-HA instead of ‘HUNNA’…. Or this ‘HA’  also denote plural and singular regardless of any rule… that’s bit awkward for pure Arabic… or this mere ‘HA’ itself broken feminine plural..

Or else God only refers to Garden (Paradise) which is ONE though of variety..
Unfortunately I didn’t see a single verse same as 22:40 referring many mixed (feminine & masculine plural) words and denoting it with Fee-HA… unless I skipped..

i would like add for arabic precision these two verses 2:2 Book(masculine) No doubt in it (La raib Fee-Hi) & 18:21 The Hour(feminine) No doubt in it (La raib Fee-Ha)... So God is precise... unless in 22:40 translators not able to find what masjid is in fact in arabic and translated as Mosque and given the gender as masculine... Something is definitely bothering....

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2019, 03:42:59 AM »


Prepositional Phrase. Object Pronoun third person, singular, feminine referent for singular feminine antecedent. It will be used also when the antecedent is broken plural feminine objects; it is so because feminine broken plural is grammatically singular.
lets see above quote of Mazhar is correct with below explanation..

https://blogs.transparent.com/arabic/broken-plural-in-arabic/

I got some assistance by this link to understand plurals and irregular plurals.

Though a word singular change to plural, it won’t become from feminine to masculine or vice versa.. in all 3 types of plurals of arabic..
So based on that let us see the below verses…
24:27-28 “O you who have believed, do not enter houses (Buyuth- plural. Masculine) other than your own houses until you ascertain welcome and greet their inhabitants (Ahli-HA .. sing. fem). That is best for you; perhaps you will be reminded. And if you do not find anyone therein (Fee-Ha), do not enter them (Thadhulu-HA…  sing. femi) until permission has been given you.
When it says ‘AHLI-HA’ it means the “Inhabitants of the house” not houses.. but why ‘HA’ while the house is masculine…
They consider Bayt as masculine  singular and plural Buyuth is irregular plural masculine.. okay but not feminine to be called ‘HA’ …
What in fact God refer here… Can we get some assistance from these verses for the concerned verse 22:40
Am I weird in this topic.. am I talking about something that is crystal clear for everyone in general who knows Arabic, and I am grinding it.  :& :confused:...?

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2019, 05:56:46 PM »
 33:64-65 "Indeed, Allah has cursed the disbelievers and prepared for them a Blaze(sa'eer) , Abiding in it (Fee-Ha) forever, they will not find a protector or a helper"

This is the verse I was talking about in my thread or rather reply #15...here Jaheem or Naar are not mentioned which refers to Hell and these two words are feminine as well... But still God used 'Fee-Ha' to denote Hell... And this fee-ha not denoting the word Sa'eer (blaze ,,,,, masculine)....

I think some strange pattern is applied... I am digging deep.. Anticipate God clarify me...

 

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2019, 07:11:29 PM »
2:114 "And who are more unjust than those who prevent the name of Allah from being mentioned in it (Fee-HA) in mosques(masajid) of Allah and strive toward their destruction(Kharabi-Ha) . It is not for them to enter them(Yadkhulu-Ha) except in fear. ,..........."

Now let's see we can get some support by this verse.. Masajid used here and and remembering God is mentioned same like 22:40... Used to denote with 'HA' and with 'Fee-HA'... Remember masjid generally considered in modern Arabic dictionaries as masculine....

9:108 "Do not stand  within it (Fee-Hi) ever. A mosque(Masjid) founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy for you to stand in (Fee-Hi) Within it(Fee-Hi) are men who love to purify themselves; and Allah loves those who purify themselves"

Just compare this verse now... It clearly seems man made building etc ... God used "HI" instead of 'HA' also used 'Fee-Hi'..  Remember both verses referring Masjid(Masculine) only....

Is Masjid two types? One Masculine and one Feminine....

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2019, 11:22:02 PM »
Peace...
Also note the verse 2:162 where 'Fee-HA' is stated but nowhere the Hell or Naar is mentioned in preceding verses or following verses... But God talk about Hell and used 'Fee-HA'.....or it talks about Curse of Allah...
Better to study the Quran within Quran...

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2019, 02:51:49 AM »
11:41"And [Noah] said, "Embark In it(Fee-Ha) in the name of Allah is its course(Majra-HA) and its anchorage(Mursa-HA). Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."

The above verse object is SHIP... And it is considered as masculine...
But God used 'Fee-HA' and 'HA' to denote the ship in feminine form... ..
God says that there is no contradiction in the book and preserve it... So... That is what we take undeniably.... But we are living in a modern world where languages are changed from its origin to certain extent.. .. ..languages are not preserved in its pure form..

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 03:50:13 AM »
11:41"And [Noah] said, "Embark In it(Fee-Ha) in the name of Allah is its course(Majra-HA) and its anchorage(Mursa-HA). Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."

The above verse object is SHIP... And it is considered as masculine...
But God used 'Fee-HA' and 'HA' to denote the ship in feminine form... ..
God says that there is no contradiction in the book and preserve it... So... That is what we take undeniably.... But we are living in a modern world where languages are changed from its origin to certain extent.. .. ..languages are not preserved in its pure form..

 29:15 "But We saved him and the companions of the ship (Shafeena), and We made it a sign for the worlds"

We know Nuh built a ship with God's instructions... It is called 'Fulk' in Arabic which is considered masculine in current Day Arabic .. The same Nuh's ship God called it as 'Shafeena' in verse 29:15.... This Shafeena is feminine... Only one ship Nuh built... Why call it masculine in one place and feminine in another.... God is apt in calling it in feminine form... But something wrong in Arabic of dictionaries....
Something to ponder.. Isn't it? Definitely for me...

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 05:26:19 PM »
20:18-19 "He said, "It (Hiya) is my staff(masculine); I lean upon it(Alai-Ha), and I bring down leaves for with it (Bi-HA) my sheep and I have therein (Fee-HA) other uses. He said, Throw it down(Alki-HA) O! Musa"

All perfectly matching for feminine singular... But 'Staff' of musa is masculine singular in current Arabic...
Is God right or dictionaries?
And refer verse 11:44 where God says the ship of Nuh rested.. 'WA'isThawath"  "It Rested" clearly feminine the ship is...

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2019, 07:39:06 PM »
Verses such as 16:15, 22:36, 23:21, 36:71, 40:79 are mentioned mainly An'Aam and Bud'na which means Cattle generally... These in nowadays dictionary masculine I guess since corpus has taken them as masculine...
But such words for God feminine clearly.. Coz of the structure of verses....
So clearly dictionaries won't tally with certain words of Quran when applying gender to them...

jkhan

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Re: Stuck on these verses clarification
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2019, 08:42:36 PM »
Peace everyone....
It was hefty and painstaking research but I have comprehensively studied the verses which occur Fee-HA in entire quran, honestly not only those verses but surrounding verses of them to get clear evidence  ... In my study I don't see any reason why God should use 'Fee-HA' in verse 22:40 and refer those four religious places  ..... God definitely meant only one out of four and  most appropriate is Masajid....  FeeHa never qualifies to be applied to all the four items mentioned in verse 22:40 since quran never used in such manner though FeeHa appears in more than 240 places....
So if God used only to indicate Masajid with 'FeeHa' then it raises a very good question mark whether other three words in 22:40 are religious places at all since God claim only in Masajid His name is much remembered.... Even masajid not merely a religious place...
In addition to that 'Fee-HA' or merely 'HA' is incontrovertibly feminine by looking at the patten of Quran... Unfortunately current Arabic acceptance of Gender doesn't tally with Quran as I shown in my previous threads.. Also certain words meaning in current Arabic or dictionaries also not tally with Quranic words meaning....
If one totally dependent on what he or she learned in Arabic then he or she can easily call quran has flaws of Arabic grammar... Isn't it...
But flaw is not in Quran Arabic but what is prevailing among Arabs...
Even one word could give two meaning and that two meaning may have different gender.   
Other than what I have presented in my above thread I don't see any contractions of Quran and current Arabic acceptance relevant to Fee-Ha....
But I noticed there are other words which are not fit according to Quran's pattern... For example if a word is masculine then Min-Ha or Bi-Ha is used that's not correct if object considered masculine... .. So.. It shows current accepted Arabic has different approach compared with Quran when it identifies gender ..
If anyone to debate and dispute with my research then pls first study all 240+ appearances of 'Fee-HA' meticulously and debate... That's worthy.   
BTW thank you brother Mazhar for making my research easier by providing all those occurences of FeeHA...

May Allah guide us with what is true...