Author Topic: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?  (Read 249 times)

imrankhawaja

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BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« on: October 06, 2019, 12:21:25 AM »
When we KNOW something for sure we claimed things in such a way, we and other are so sure about what we are believing ... 

EXAMPLE..

i believe i am in city (XYZ) = i know i am in city (xyz) .. equation looking fine here..

as soon we put this equation into religious (faith/belief), things start getting confuse and cause lot of trouble, division and fights  ..

examples

i believe jesus is God = do  i know jesus is God ?
i believe krishana is God = do i know krishna is God ?
i believe Allah is God = do i know allah is God ?
and so on..

correct equation should look like this

we blindly believe (xyz) is God = because we dont know who is God.

problem with blind believe is one person believe is different than another person believe..

ROLE of THOUGHT

THOUGHT created the image of God and then THOUGHT worships the image what THOUGHT has created, different THOUGHTS created different GOD/s

HOW to replace the correct word for belief in the current situation ?

 :group: :confused:

MissMarple77

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2019, 05:34:47 AM »
What about

I perceive I am in some crowded place with extensive streets and buildings. I came from the desert, never seen such a place.

Someone tells me this is the city XYZ, gives me a name for what I perceive and gives me a city map. And the city map is really working as far I could see until now.

With just thoughts I have in my mind I might sometimes find my way there or come into trouble.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

amin

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2019, 06:18:58 AM »
Religious belief comes with accepting  some higher force is there, be it seeing in multiple or single.

Do we just  believe because someone told so? No, we recognize ourselves, that we are blessed by some higher force...The singularity of God is also natural and ultimately everything will lead to the singularity of the source.

The main teaching of Quran is we dont know God's nature, thats why the Haram comes into picture, when other religions praise multiple signs of highness or grandness of God, Quran gives the direction of Haram, to keep one's mind towards piety and repecting the sacredness of God, but it also doesnt reject the grandness & highness of God.I think the  Masjid Al Haram to Masjid al Aqsa symbolic journey denotes the same.




imrankhawaja

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2019, 02:13:44 AM »
Religious belief comes with accepting  some higher force is there, be it seeing in multiple or single.

YES religious people share their experience about the revelation what they receive from HIGHER being in their dream like state.
then they and their followers start believing their dreams and some become their enemies or they disbelieve either in dream or the contents of the dream.(ALWAYS)

thats what the difference i m trying to find out its (our FAITH not our KNOWING).


Do we just  believe because someone told so? No, we recognize ourselves, that we are blessed by some higher force...The singularity of God is also natural and ultimately everything will lead to the singularity of the source.

.

GREEN not everyone is blessed example stephen hawkins one of the brilliant mind. he got a blessed mind through which he contribute his impressive work in the field of astro physics but he rejected the idea that any creator need to be there for creating a universe..

again blessing and un-blessing also provide two paths for the one who is blessed can believe that God exist one who is un-blessed can also believe no God exist (again both are believers of two things but they both dont know).

RED on this PART i want other members to help sort me out one thing thats coming in my mind recently EVERYONE plz try to comment on it as it will give me different thoughts of (philosophical ideas vs religious ideas vs logical ideas)

we see singularity in creation, at one point the big bang started from singularity .. but how much we can GO back ?

source and then who/what is the source of origin ?

if first cause can come into existence without the need of any creating force then why cant second, third, fourth cause can come in the same way?

its also tricky if there is a BIGBANG there must be a BIGBANGER on the same way if there is a creation there must be a creator.. one part..

second part when its comes to the creator only we can solve it by saying  " un-created " if he can un-created and need no creator why cant universe also need no creator ...

uncreated/creator is itself confusing , creator exist so we cant say he is uncreated or unexisted ?

1 first cause/God/creator  created himself by his own.?

HELP me solve this thing plz members, :group:


imrankhawaja

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2019, 02:24:36 AM »
What about

I perceive I am in some crowded place with extensive streets and buildings. I came from the desert, never seen such a place.

Someone tells me this is the city XYZ, gives me a name for what I perceive and gives me a city map. And the city map is really working as far I could see until now.

With just thoughts I have in my mind I might sometimes find my way there or come into trouble.

i m afraid if i understood you correctly or not  my sister.

are you trying to say you are in a city (XYZ) you dnt really KNOW ? google maps and people are fixed ? and RED color i really have no idea what you on about ..


MissMarple77

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2019, 09:13:54 AM »
This is about what I meant:

7:172 And when thy Lord took from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their progeny and made them bear witness concerning themselves, “Am I not your Lord?” they said, “Yea, we bear witness”—lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection, “Truly of this we were heedless,” 7:173 or lest you should say, “[It is] only that our fathers ascribed partners unto God beforehand, and we were their progeny after them. Wilt Thou destroy us for that which the falsifiers have done?”

Comment (from The Study Quran): "This verse is also connected with the Quranic notion of the fiṭrah, the primordial nature (30:30) with which all human beings were originally endowed, indicating that the innate recognition of God’s Oneness constitutes the essence of being human (see 30:30c). Even though human beings do not remember the pretemporal covenant, their testimony to God’s Lordship is understood to have left an indelible imprint upon their souls and to have established moral responsibility for them. When these souls are engendered in earthly bodies and reach the age of moral understanding and accountability, the innate knowledge is reawakened in those who believe by their encounter with prophetic teachings, scriptures, and Divine laws, which serve as a reminder and renewal of their initial covenant with God."

So no blind believe or thought created image of God should be there, which is causing trouble as you wrote.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

imrankhawaja

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2019, 06:33:01 AM »
This is about what I meant:

7:172 And when thy Lord took from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their progeny and made them bear witness concerning themselves, “Am I not your Lord?” they said, “Yea, we bear witness”—lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection, “Truly of this we were heedless,” 7:173 or lest you should say, “[It is] only that our fathers ascribed partners unto God beforehand, and we were their progeny after them. Wilt Thou destroy us for that which the falsifiers have done?”

Comment (from The Study Quran): "This verse is also connected with the Quranic notion of the fiṭrah, the primordial nature (30:30) with which all human beings were originally endowed, indicating that the innate recognition of God’s Oneness constitutes the essence of being human (see 30:30c). Even though human beings do not remember the pretemporal covenant, their testimony to God’s Lordship is understood to have left an indelible imprint upon their souls and to have established moral responsibility for them. When these souls are engendered in earthly bodies and reach the age of moral understanding and accountability, the innate knowledge is reawakened in those who believe by their encounter with prophetic teachings, scriptures, and Divine laws, which serve as a reminder and renewal of their initial covenant with God."

So no blind believe or thought created image of God should be there, which is causing trouble as you wrote.

RED either its blind believe or non-blind belief still we cant say WE know it but we said we believe that event possibly happened..

because ME and YOU dnt really remember 7:172 or we ?

if we remember then its mean we KNOW
if we dnt really remember and just came to know by some material/book/person its mean we BELIEVE ..

where is the confusion ?

MissMarple77

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 01:25:17 PM »
And it makes very much sense that we don't remember. If this information were accessible, we would be completely destroyed! The satan is trying to find out about it all the time and it could be distorted in our brain. So we can only be distracted from it but we still have a chance to follow it.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

imrankhawaja

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 11:03:27 PM »
And it makes very much sense that we don't remember. If this information were accessible, we would be completely destroyed! The satan is trying to find out about it all the time and it could be distorted in our brain. So we can only be distracted from it but we still have a chance to follow it.

RED it does not make sense to lot of people. one person sense is different than another person sense.
GREEN can you explain HOW ? on the contrary if this information is accessible then its a KNOWING not a BELIEVE.

MissMarple77

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Re: BELIEVE vs FAITH = knowing or thought ?
« Reply #9 on: Today at 11:21:04 AM »
Even with memories from this life, they can change over time. It is not necessarily a "read-only" thing. Or they can be put in a whole different context. This thing would be exposed to all kind of propaganda. What, for example, if there would be said then: "This was not God, who spoke to you. You were tricked by a devil." Like it was said and is really said about the Quran.

Now the problem: There would not be this "indelible imprint upon the soul", which could be useful to decide whether this is a lie or not. Which we can use now. The conversation with God, which is questioned, would have been left as a conscious memory. So on which basis to decide what is right and wrong?
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)