Author Topic: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.  (Read 749 times)

good logic

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2019, 03:18:12 AM »
Peace Hawk.

I mostly agree with your take.
I want to add that one can also give up their free will and take up "GOD s will" if they are certain about GOD and GOD s total control over everything.
I can for example say: "My free will is to accept GOD s will" . Because this decision must come from the individual deep within i.e Accept Islam to GOD.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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good logic

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 09:43:36 AM »
Peace All.
Here is another spanner thrown in here to shake our free will!:
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.
 Or what has this got to do with free will?
There are many things in our lives we can change if we are not satisfied with them. For example, if we are overweight, we can change that. If we hate our job, we can change that. If we are not happy being in a certain relationship, we can change that. If we want to have more friends, we can change that. The choice is ours.
However, it is important to know that there are some things in life that we cannot change no matter how hard we try. . Like what people do, say, feel … Where we come from ,our family, the past…

Or can we change many things now,. Much more than our parents and grandparents could?
So, is free will easier nowadays than in the past?
Is free will changing as we are evolving?
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Jafar

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 11:25:57 AM »
One thing for sure we cannot change the past.
We need to accept and be at peace with our past and accept it as God's plan.

We cannot 'change' the future, because we don't know what the future will be in the first place.
Once we know the 'future' that 'future' definitely has become our 'past'.
Even if we could turn back the time, all of the events will occur in the exact same manner.
We can strive for something but our striving and 'will' will also be in accordance to the plan.

Thus what is the best attitude?
The best attitude is to accept whatever that was and be at peace with it.
That's the best gift that you can give to yourselves and your surrounding.
That's definitely easier said than done, but once you achieved it you shall no more experience any anxiety and depression and a step further to learn how to peacefully accept whatever shall happen in your future.

"Let Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"
-- Matt 6:10

That's the key to be a muslim (the character and not the religion).

Cerberus

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 11:43:29 PM »
If we had a free will just like that, there wouldn't be entire philosophies dedicated to "liberating" people like buddhism.
I think free will is achieved with hard work and determination and self-control and a life lived by reasonable, thoughtful principles.

How do I know I'm exercising my will freely ? If I can live by my own principles. If other things are preventing me from that, and other things will indeed prevent us from that, like emotions will weight on our decision making, biased toward what's pleasurable and beneficial, then my will is under constraints.

small example: a friend who treats you very nicely does wrong, but you feel like giving them a pass for fear of angering them or losing their friendship. here your relationship to your friend is pressuring you to not do what you might think is the right thing to do.

good logic

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2019, 08:40:31 AM »
Thank you both jafar and Cerberus.

So is it easier for us in this age to exercise our free will?
I mean humans have gone through many changes like these issues of the past:
 Owning and enslaving some races by others, oppressing women, lack of education for the majority, no internet...etc.
I know some issues still persist in some societies but overall people are improving in choices and making decisions.
Or is this not true?

Could a future time arrive where the majority of people will be more aware of what is required from them to lead a peaceful and happy life?

Or at least learn from our past mishaps!!!
GOD bless you both.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

imrankhawaja

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2019, 01:06:52 AM »
i like topics about free-will and also i am open to new ideas regarding free-will.

let say nothing comes from heart everything comes from mind and mind control our wills and actions as we see and we are also confuse at the same time about the things what already happened to us without our will what make this subject really complex and complicated.

instead of talking about freewill or destiny lets first talk about the source of freewill = BRAIN perhaps we understand more..

BRAIN a tool of gathering/collecting all information what we feel by our five senses. its works like a supercomputer generates HD video clips saved in our memory of brain. @ unimaginable amount of data. = thats the basic element what makes a human being into personality what he/she acquired by using those five senses.. five senses makes memories and memories makes a personality..

by using this BRAIN we are able to defend ourselves from the animal speices who are more in speed/power/flying/swiming compared to us.

we are confused about using our freewill  due to a reason we are unable to handle our brain ?

our brain evolved through stages and at  this time we experiencing it at its peak due to which we are un-able to
understand/run/control/manage this tool

we hardly understand the 1% of our brain biologically ..
we  have no idea from where sleep/dreams come in our brain...
we just start  working on how to understand our brain...


we are working on lot of things related with the tool BRAIN which is responsible for making us believe FREEWILL exist.

it appears the human animal (loaded with a computer in shape of brain) in which they are unaware how to handle that thing which make them unique in other animals also cause a confusion what they stored in their mind so basically its about the evolution of a species loaded with a gifted brain and freewill concept is a part related with that brain..

unlock the brain and perhaps we will find the original mystery of FREEWILL.



good logic

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2019, 05:28:57 AM »
Peace Imran.
Thank you for your interest and post.
This book is interesting; Mind, brain and free will by Richard Swinburne:
Summary, quote:
Mind, Brain, and Free Will presents a powerful new case for substance dualism (the idea that humans consist of two parts--body and soul) and for libertarian free will (that humans have some freedom to choose between alternatives, independently of the causes which influence them). Richard Swinburne argues that answers to questions about mind, body, and free will depend crucially on the answers to more general philosophical questions.
He begins by analysing the criteria for one event being the same as another, one substance being the same as another, and a state of affairs being metaphysically possible; and then goes on to analyse the criteria for a belief about these issues being justified.
Pure mental events (including conscious events) are distinct from physical events and interact with them. Swinburne claims that no result from neuroscience or any other science could show that interaction does not take place; and illustrates this claim by showing that recent scientific work (such as Libet's experiments) has no tendency whatever to show that our intentions do not cause brain events.
He goes on to argue for agent causation, and claims that--to speak precisely--it is we, and not our intentions, that cause our brain events. It is metaphysically possible that each of us could acquire a new brain or continue to exist without a brain; and so we are essentially souls.
 Brain events and conscious events are so different from each other that it would not be possible to establish a scientific theory which would predict what each of us would do in situations of moral conflict.
Hence given a crucial epistemological principle (the Principle of Credulity) we should believe that things are as they seem to be: that we make choices independently of the causes which influence us. According to Swinburne's lucid and ambitious account, it follows that we are morally responsible for our actions.

So can we control/influence our brain?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

imrankhawaja

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2019, 01:51:27 PM »

So can we control/influence our brain?
.

WE are actually our brain.

as we know all thoughts comes from brain i.e  (-VE & +VE). 

5 senses are sending information to brain and that information become our personality.

then that personality REACT the way information is stored in it..  also sometimes we called that APP as (emotions/emoji) that get installed and get updated with time.

Personality take actions according to best of its interest built in as a survival prog in all species through evolutionary stages.

our mind is at its best and fortunately evolved in such a way that we can make good use of it. but also we are not well prepared to  handle that complex system which sometimes confuse us making us think we have FREEWILL..

in reality FREEWILL is just a command or program of that supercomputer(brian) that reacts according to the information it contains. without our will.

starts from our childhood.. till the end of life.. we think we do things by choice but in reality we never had choice. the choice forced on us by the brain = computer who programmed according to our society/tradition/conditions in which we get birth.

we just evolved our brain in recent past in the history of many billion years of this planet .. 99% of time that system(brian) was not even there to exist..

people who cant handle their brain sometimes get mental disabilities or some brains are faulty at birth which make a human being totally behave/live like a normal animal. we can observe it in daily life.. when there are others brains who are controlling his/her brain as they know the brain is not at work.. (mental asylums).

hawk99

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2019, 04:56:05 PM »
Peace Hawk.

I mostly agree with your take.
I want to add that one can also give up their free will and take up "GOD s will" if they are certain about GOD and GOD s total control over everything.
I can for example say: "My free will is to accept GOD s will" . Because this decision must come from the individual deep within i.e Accept Islam to GOD.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Sure, did not our parents decide to disobey in the garden?
Did not some members decide to no longer participate here at
free-minds? Decision making is the beauty and tragedy of life.
Free will is a blessing or a curse given to us by our Creator.



I want to add that one can also give up their free will and take up "GOD s will" if they are certain about GOD and GOD s total control over everything.

Yes, but wouldn't that be an exercise of free will?


@GL, all, what is your understanding of 33:72  with special attention to the word
  l-amānata   :hmm

                      :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

good logic

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Re: Free will? The debate will continue! Discuss at will.
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2019, 05:32:06 AM »
Peace hawk.

I think 33:72 goes together with 7:172.
Basically we took GOD s covenant "Our agreed ultimate choice is to accept only GOD  as our Lord".

Other creatures heeded and submitted to GOD s will . We decided to accept this chance of living - To exercise our freedom of choice-
 Can we keep our agreement with GOD and make the right choice in this life? A big responsibility.
My understanding of 33:72 brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/