Author Topic: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam  (Read 736 times)

theNabster

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Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« on: September 04, 2019, 05:00:48 PM »
Allah's Peace, Grace & Mercy...

This has been bothering me from the start.

After reading
Who was JESUS? Conspiracy in Jerusalem - by Kamal S. Salibi
& I cannot unread it, the logic is brutal, I am not a Christian, but even to me it was shocking. Will soon debrief slowly when I finish reading, might need to reread it - uses Bible, Qur'an & records.

Small summary Issa ibn Miriam =/= Jesus Christ , part of Issa ibn Miriam history used over Jesus Christ, Jesus has father, brothers, was crucified, was a freedom fighter against Rome, Paul went to Yemen to collect info on Issa son of Mary which he used to make Jesus holy...

So everything prophetic happened in Yemen & SW Arabia/Hejaz, Issa ibn Miriam over 200 years older than Jesus Christ who was no prophet nor messenger, but a Jewish Rabbi who fought against Rome, he probably also followed Torah.
Still struggling with this, Jerusalem in ME copycat.

So Jesus Christ special status fabricated by so called apostles/followers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, his brother James, Peter, Paul all co-conspirators projecting Issa ibn Miriam onto Jesus Christ.
Issa was never crucified nor killed, Jesus was crucified & killed...

Therefore all gospels collected in Palestine fabrication projecting Issa ibn Miriam onto Jesus Christ, making Jesus Christ a vessel whom Paul used with Emperor Constantine to deploy Christian doctrine of trinity, son of god, etc.
After that Jerusalem in Palestine has little holiness left.

This will be very challenging to Christians, Muslims who relied on Christian records & even to an Arab Jew like me who accepted the Muslim/Christian status quo consensus.

At the time of Mohamed, in Arabia, Christians in Arabia had access to the true Gospel/Injeel of the Nassara followers of Issa son of Mary, that scripture in parchments form seems to have disappeared, maybe destroyed or in possession of Vatican...

I can no longer defend Palestine on the basis of theology, but on the basis of freedom fighting of a subjugated people.
Both Jerusalem & Jesus Christ today are not holy.
Original Jerusalem was in Asir, no longer exists.
Original son of Mary, Messiah, Word of God not Jesus.

New Testament nothing to do with original gospel/injeel revealed to Messiah Issa ibn Miriam, though it uses history stolen from Yemen of Issa, & resources from OT to make Jesus Christ holy. They also claim Jesus Christ is descendant of David, whereas Issa descendant of Aaron.

Qur'an did not challenge this because the Nassara in Hejaz were using the true Gospel revealed to Issa ibn Miriam, not the fake gospels circulating in Rome/Palestine.
A posit is that initial followers of Issa moved to Najran, Yemen, & were burnt in a holocaust by Jews there.

Pharisees in Palestine insisted Jesus be crucified, as failed in Yemen to crucify true Messiah Issa ibn Miriam, they forced Pilate's hand who ordered his crucifixion, so ensuring birth of Christianity thereof.
Thus both OT & NT tampered with & only Qur'an can correct records.

Another posit is maybe Jesus Christ was a follower descendant of Nassara followers of true Messiah Issa ibn Miriam, & was preaching God's Gospel as Issa did, indeed some records attest Jesus Christ carried parchments with him, which might be Gospel fragments in his possession.

I will post links to Kamal Salibi relevant books later...

cf. this was from my twitter accounts feeds @inabster / @meNabster
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

theNabster

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2019, 07:13:49 PM »
This in bullet points with further insights...

Extraordinary provocative explanation of one of history's great unsolved mysteries: who, or what, was Jesus? Gospels provide no direct answers & both life of Jesus as it has been recorded for us & teachings & activities of Apostles surrounded by contradictions & inconsistencies.

Who Was Jesus? Conspiracy in Jerusalem - Kamal Salibi - teasers scans of summaries in the book - https://amazon.com/Who-Was-Jesus-Conspiracy-Paperbacks/dp/1845113144/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
Lexicon:
Jeshu is Jesus of NT Gospels
Issa is "Jesus" in Qur'an - Nazarene/Nassara Gospel/Injeel.
https://twitter.com/meNabster/status/1164968417188818945

Follows a summary of conclusions after this important analysis of Jesus Christ vs Issa son of Mary.

Conclusions & Commentaries - Jesus Christ of the NT vs Issa son of Mary in the Qur'an -
1. They are two different characters.

2. Jesus Christ appeared in Palestine in ~ 20 AD

3. Jesus Christ not the Messiah.

4. Issa ibn Miriam is the Messiah.

5. Issa ibn Miriam received Injeel.

6. Jesus Christ was in Hejaz, he emigrated to Palestine to claim his David Kingship lineage right, he saw an opening for Messiah & he took it (like Sabbatai Tzvi in 1666)

7. Jesus Christ was crucified.

8. Issa ibn Mariam & Jesus Christ are separated in time by no less than 300 years.

9. An attempt at harm, maybe crucifixion was attempted on Issa, it was unsuccesful as God protected him.

10. As theology, Jesus Christ is a composite figure based on prophecies in the OT & the original Messiah Issa son of Mary, a fiction, Paul's Jesus.

11. Paul's Christ as the man Jesus did historically exist.

12. Paul & Emperor Constantine used the opportunism of Jesus Christ the self proclaimed Messiah to manufacture a figure that allowed them to push their "Christian" doctrine on the masses.

13. Part of this are the NT gospels.

14. I could stop here & refer you to Kamal Salibi's book - ironic that a Christian debunked Jesus Christ so thoroughly, but I will carry on as there is great Godly reward for me to set the record straight about the Jesus Christ fallacy manufactured by Paul & Emperor Constantine.

15. One question to ask, maybe, why didn't God in Qur'an debunk Jesus Christ Himself, stating unambiguously that Issa ibn Miriam is not Jesus Christ (also that Jacob is not Israel)? - I will attempt to answer that later...

16. Issa ibn Miriam was not God, as much as Ezra wasn't.

17. Fabricated figure Jesus Christ was not God either, who made him God were Paul & Constantine, they pushed a Satanic doctrine used by many communities before them, including those who proclaimed Ezra to be God.
Qur'an sets the record straight on these, there is only One God.

18. The real name of the man, historical figure & fake Messiah failure Jesus Christ is Yeshu bar Nagarah / Yeshu bin Nagarah - he was born in a Nazarene town called Negar in Hejaz.

19. Paul used him & added theological fallacies to his character to implement Christianity.

20. Another name for Jesus Christ the historical figure is Jesus the Carpenter, as Negar happens to mean carpenter too...

21. Rome was a powerful enough empire with enough reach to allow the fallacy to be deployed & implemented to supersede the Issa ibn Miriam Nazarene faith.

22. The Nazarene true followers of true Messiah Issa ibn Miriam in Palestine & elsewhere were ruthlessly silenced, killed, crucified by Rome & others such as Ashab Al Ukhdud in Najran Yemen were immolated in a ditch filled with burning oil.

23. According to Kamal Salibi thorough historical analysis of NT, Yeshu bar Nagar (Aramaic name) was a follower of Issa ibn Mariam, upheld Nazarene Gospel which he preached, but was no Prophet, nor  God's Messenger, he was a Monotheist aspiring leader & self proclaimed Messiah.

24. All of the Nazarene community immigrants to Palestine, NT gospel writers Matthew, John, Mark, Luke & Paul & newcomer Yeshu bar Nagar had access to all or fragments of the original God's Gospel revealed in Yemen to Issa ibn Mariam in ~ 350 BCE after Ezra compiling of Talmud.

Based on the above already, follows an important historical clarification...

25. Major correction about Jewish history & Cyrus the Great -
In 539 BCE there was no Jerusalem in Palestine, Jerusalem was in Asir, Yemen.
Achaemenids Cyrus the Great freed Children of Israel & Hebrews including Ezra to Jerusalem in Asir, not Palestine.

26. This means that claim of Zionists to Palestine is bogus, no original Jerusalem in Palestine, Jews followers of Judaism compiled by Ezra in Yemen, not Palestine, & in ~540 BCE.
Jews migration to Palestine much later, & copycating of geographical names from Yemen/Asir/Hejaz.

27. This was the subject of a previous book by Kamal Salibi - The Bible came from Arabia -
https://twitter.com/meNabster/status/972543136055558145

28. Kamal Salibi in his book elucidating Jesus Christ clearly established that Issa ibn Miriam & Jesus Christ are two separate personas, even if in the Greek rendering Yeshu & Issa are transliterated the same as Iesous, or Jesus (ch13:p188)

29. The first Jesus (Issa) who is the son of Mary, & had no father, came about 150 years after Ezra with Children of Israel & Hebrews followers of Torah were freed from Babylon to Asir, Yemen in about 539 BCE by Achaemenids Cyrus the Great - here is exhibit from Who was Jesus?
https://twitter.com/inabster/status/1168690833232728066

30. The second Jesus, Yeshu bar Nagar, or Jesus Christ came about about 400 years later after original Jesus Issa ibn Miriam, who was the Messiah, Word of God, fortified by the Holy Spirit Angel Gabriel as Qur'an descibed, & neither God nor Son of God for both as Qur'an insists.

31. To complicate matters, Kamil Salibi digs out there is a third persona, or rather entity used to make up Jesus Christ, in fact an Arabic deity by a similar name Issa, Al Issa, a deity of fertility.
So Jesus Christ was no less than a composite of three personas fused as Yeshu.

32. To go back to the Jewish presence in Palestine as a political powerful force, it only happened after a Jewish Kingdom was established under the priestly house of the Hasmoneans who conquered regions there & forcibly imposed Ezra's Judaism on the local Arameo-Arabs inhabitants.

33. Hasmoneans Jewish Kingdom was established no earlier than ~200 BCE so midway between Issa son of Mary & Jesus "Yeshu bar Naga" Christ.
This again torpedoes the claim of Zionists & Evangelical Christians to Palestine as biblical land of the Jews. The land of the Jews was Asir.

34. You can read & learn more on these through Kamal Salibi's books, like the one on Jesus Christ I linked up to.
I will just conclude with  a few comments about Kamal Salibi's conclusion on his book, because @Twitter is not an easy medium to lay down rationales, just headers.

35. Whilst he wrote his books on Arabia, Middle East & his analysis of the Bible, & I wager up to his demise in 2011, Kamal Salibi was a Christian who was not intending on undermining his own Christian faith, what he did is question the origins of his faith.

36. It's therefore unsurprising that in his conclusions he'll skew his findings to accommodate for Jesus Christ the god at the expense of Jesus Christ the historical or prophetic figure, & he did just that in the last 4 chapters of his book from Chapter 10. The God who became Christ onward.

37. Despite debunking & dissecting Paul's Matthew's Mark's Luke's & John's writings of NT, he still ends up siding with the idea of a god who incarnates into a human & dies for humanity's sins, something Qur'an absolutely forbids & rejects, as God does not die nor becomes flesh.

38. His rationale which Qur'an debunks being a human can't perform miracles such as raising the dead to life, as Lazarus, so to him Jesus Christ couldn't be human, so is or became a god, he accepts the third persona projected onto Yeshu bar Nagar of Jesus being a fertility god.

39. He fully ignores the verses in Qur'an where it is related that Messiah & God's Word, Issa son of Marie performed miracles by God's Leave including that of raising the dead, the operative word here is by God's Leave.

40. He needs Jesus Christ as God as it is his faith.

41. Despite criticising & debunking the NT, he defends the central tenets of Pauline Christianity & rejects the Nazarene faith which was very Quranic at its inception.

42. In conclusion, his forensic analysis was very sound, it debunks even hadiths which plagiarise Christianity.

43. His conclusions are Pauline Christian which want to accommodate the belief in a god who incarnates in the flesh, a fertility god, who dies to forgive human sins, a god who has no place in Torah, Nazarene faith, nor Qu'ran, as this is idolatry.

45. This ends the thread, I swerved from deeply ingrained beliefs which were erroneous about Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Miriam vs Yeshu bar Nagar.
I want to thank @mrkmrkmoh, suspended by @Twitter, for nagging me to explore this important matter.
My belief in God is stronger.
https://twitter.com/inabster/status/1169026474206269441

Reference - Who Was Jesus? Conspiracy in Jerusalem - Kamal Salibi - Search for the true Messiah - Yemeni Issa son of Mary of the family of Imran - full pdf book - https://dropbox.com/s/wff2d9cgjwruroh/epdf.pub_who-was-jesus-conspiracy-in-jerusalem.pdf?dl=0
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

theNabster

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Side Notes, reference ebooks... Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 10:57:07 AM »
15a. Qur'an explicitly states what salvation entails, belief of the Jesus Christ theology pushed by Empire Constantine is not one of them, & is actively & unambiguously discouraged, Qur'an says past history is unimportant for Believers unless it gives them Godly insights.

26a. It seems wherever Children of Israel went they named areas where they emigrated same as areas they originated from, tayammun in Arabic, resulting in much theological confusion later on, as until now we cannot pinpoint David's Temple in Palestine, as it was not there.

Pazuzu's essays on Yemen history (4 ebooks) - sadly Pazuzu got lost into the Flat Earth cult, & did not publish further...

1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0dj0w11ptbmb4i/Search%20for%20Pharaoh.pdf?dl=0

2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpltq3525nvrhao/Road%20of%20the%20Patriarch.pdf?dl=0

3. https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvbiwh10xmilx10/Israel%20and%20Sheba.pdf?dl=0

4. https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sfahi4h7qk41qc/Assyrian%20Storm.pdf?dl=0

The Bible came from Arabia.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bf3xwfl4y7wr725/330789718-The-Bible-Came-From-Arabia-by-Kamal-Salibi-2016-pdf.pdf?dl=0

Secrets of the Bible people.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6h2eq3d9ytvjth/396210786-SECRETS-OF-THE-BIBLE-PEOPLE-KAMAL-SALIBI-pdf.pdf?dl=0

41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

theNabster

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 02:12:28 PM »
The NT story of Jesus Christ & Pauline Christianity is a great exemplar of how an original faith is manipulated
& a religion created to manipulate people by leaders such as Roman Emperor Constantine,
& later the Church - Catholics, Inquisition, Protestants, etc...
same in the case of Islam with Sunni, Shia...
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

quincy

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 04:07:33 PM »
Mount Zion is located in a completely different part of the Earth. Yes, pretty much everything you think you know is a Lie.
Say: "He is God, the One,"
"God, the Indivisible,"
"He does not beget, nor was He begotten,"
"And there is none who is His equal."

theNabster

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 04:31:27 PM »
In my now old age (60) - the only truth I find is in Qur'an, everything else is stained by evil & the pervasive proliferation of Gog & Magog.

Mount Zion is located in a completely different part of the Earth. Yes, pretty much everything you think you know is a Lie.
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

imrankhawaja

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2019, 06:38:35 PM »
In my now old age (60) the only truth I find is in Qur'an,

TRUTH become what we believes in.
truth of one (person/group) is different than another (person/group)..

story of believer vs non-believer..

BELIEVER : 50 yrs of believing and one day he think what if my believe is not true and all what i believe is a LIE, he get confuse and thinks he wasted ALL his life...

NON-BELIEVER: 50 years of disbelieving and suddenly he start thinking what if my dis-believing is LIE, he get confuse and think  he wasted ALL his life..

our mind and emotions programmed in such a way to (believe/like) some specific things and we always listen what we want to listen.. and we always believe what we want to believe...

believer only take interest in the ideas of believing and forced himself to get convinced from those ideas..
non-believer only take interest in ideas of disbelieving and forced himself to get convinced from those ideas..

example

sadly Pazuzu got lost into the Flat Earth cult

in this example u can see how sure he was about his believe, and his belief was going against all evidence lets examine what possible reasons were there.

1 HE believes in quran..
2 HE also believe the author of quran declared earth as flat..

then he find a cult of flat earth having similar ideas as his ideas so he wanted to believe on flat earth...

in short he is relying his fath/believe on book called quran.. 
we all do things in such a way and we never admit the attitude of "we dont really know"


theNabster

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2019, 07:00:16 PM »
> imrankhawaja

I have just summarised the forensic analysis of a Christian historian, he convinced me with rationales, not just statements by theologians.

It came as a shock to me as I accepted the word of theologians that Jesus Christ of AD 20 was Issa ibn Mariam -

Qur'an also validates this as you can read from my above summary.
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.

IGotQuestions

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 02:05:54 PM »
theNabster, I don't mean to derail the primary subject of this thread. I wanted to get your opinion on present day 'Mecca.' What do you make of it? Do you believe this is where the Prophet (S) is from and where the Hajj should be conducted? Look forward to hearing your reply InshaAllah.

Also, if you have any links/books, that'd be great as well.

theNabster

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Re: Jesus Christ vs Issa ibn Mariam
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 10:10:03 PM »
I m still debating with myself about where the original Becca was,
I do not believe it is present day Mecca,
it was probably in Asir or further south as most Prophets & Messengers originate from there & close around,
also of note that Ka'aba is a natural angular mound Abraham was asked to build an altar on its foundation for worship, not a man made cube like the one in Mecca,
& cubes built by Arabs were Jinn cubes, not for Monotheist worship, but maybe to appease demons,
also the bad connotations of Saturn cult with seven circumambulation around a black stone (Cybelle's greek myth, etc) , the black son of Satan coming from an unholy matrimony with Allat Mannat & Uzzat, etc...
May Allah give us a Sign.
41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to
them that this (the Qur'an) is the truth.